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Post by Chris Hammers on May 16, 2012 6:28:08 GMT -5
That's a shame, I guess. I read the first 2 or 3 issues from a friend, and was looking to get Volume 1 of the trade.
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Post by T R W on May 16, 2012 8:27:08 GMT -5
I was enjoying it, but I am not terribly surprised.
Perhaps this means we get JSA now. Although I doubt it. I haven't read any of the Earth 2 stuff yet, but I don't like the idea of it. I mean, didn't we have Crisis on Infinite Earths to fix that mess to begin with?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 16, 2012 12:08:54 GMT -5
I love how back in the 80s the DC staff felt that their multiverse was far too confusing and complex for new readers so they had Crisis and went to one universe. Now they feel that one universe is bad so they have to back to what they had pre-80s. For a casual reader, it's insanely confusing.
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Post by k5 on May 17, 2012 16:48:38 GMT -5
there would almost seem to be a similarity in the structure of time and events both in pro wrestling and super hero comic books...that of a convenient one depending on circumstance.
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Post by moocow on May 19, 2012 15:56:44 GMT -5
I was enjoying it, but I am not terribly surprised. Perhaps this means we get JSA now. Although I doubt it. I haven't read any of the Earth 2 stuff yet, but I don't like the idea of it. I mean, didn't we have Crisis on Infinite Earths to fix that mess to begin with? I'm pretty sure Earth 2 is the JSA book, Garrick and Scott show up in the first issue. |
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threehgame
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Post by threehgame on May 20, 2012 0:21:31 GMT -5
I love how back in the 80s the DC staff felt that their multiverse was far too confusing and complex for new readers so they had Crisis and went to one universe. Now they feel that one universe is bad so they have to back to what they had pre-80s. For a casual reader, it's insanely confusing. At this point I have a feeling DC doesn't know what they want or how many Earths will exist. There are to many cooks in the Kitchen and the new simpler universe is starting to develop the same pot holes that turn into plot holes, which can only be fixed with a crisis.....yes, a crisis is coming. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 21, 2012 9:07:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I get that same feeling with DC. They kill off an established character and bring in a new one to replace him (Connor Hawke for Oliver Queen or Kyle Rayner for Hal Jordan). They do this because they want to breathe fresh air into a character. That's fine. Then they decide they'll bring the original guy back. They can't decide what is in continuity and what isn't and they sometimes feel the need to stick to old continuity that they've abandoned.
Just look at Superman post-Crisis. They started by saying that the main problem with Superman was that he was ridiculous powerful (pre-COIE) he could rip buildings up and fly them around and that apparently the entire population of Krypton had survived and you had super dogs, super cats, Supergirl, and entire city of super people, a super horse and even a super monkey. Not to mention the population of the Phantom Zone. Prior to the new 52, all of that come back.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on May 21, 2012 16:04:24 GMT -5
I am not too pleased with DC as of late.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 21, 2012 16:17:26 GMT -5
I am not too pleased with DC as of late. I concur sadly. I'm not a Marvel fan at all. How do they deal with continuity issues? I don't recall them rebooting everything periodically the way DC does. |
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threehgame
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Post by threehgame on May 21, 2012 16:58:44 GMT -5
I am not too pleased with DC as of late. I concur sadly. I'm not a Marvel fan at all. How do they deal with continuity issues? I don't recall them rebooting everything periodically the way DC does. Their continuity is a mess and usually they just ignore something from someones past. In the event they feel what happened sucked, they just write a story to undo it such as Spider-man's marriage. During the late 80's and early 90's most of the characters kind of regressed and years of back story and development was dropped. They have however managed to not have to reboot the main line, just start side lines to better capture the modern audience. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 21, 2012 19:40:58 GMT -5
I concur sadly. I'm not a Marvel fan at all. How do they deal with continuity issues? I don't recall them rebooting everything periodically the way DC does. Their continuity is a mess and usually they just ignore something from someones past. In the event they feel what happened sucked, they just write a story to undo it such as Spider-man's marriage. During the late 80's and early 90's most of the characters kind of regressed and years of back story and development was dropped. They have however managed to not have to reboot the main line, just start side lines to better capture the modern audience. So they just ignore stuff that doesn't fit into continuity? Seems bogus. |
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Post by T R W on May 22, 2012 13:46:58 GMT -5
I think ignoring it is much better than trying to reboot every 10 years. Marvel is sort of a mess right now, but DC is a giant cluster  . |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 22, 2012 16:47:07 GMT -5
I don't know which is worse. I would hate to read a story where the villain gets beat because he can't swim. Then you go, "Umm, way back in issue 127 he was bitten by a radioactive fish and acquired the power to breathe underwater. The whole issue was about him trying to destroy Atlantis. Ten issues later he tried to destroy an underwater lab and there was a 5 issue arc where he converted whales to the dark side and used them to destroy ships."
"Yeah, but now he can't swim any more."
"Why?"
"Cuz."
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Post by T R W on May 22, 2012 17:11:27 GMT -5
It's rare that they do something that obvious. If anything, you'll usually get a half ass reason as to why they no longer have that power.
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threehgame
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Post by threehgame on May 22, 2012 23:01:31 GMT -5
It's rare that they do something that obvious. If anything, you'll usually get a half ass reason as to why they no longer have that power. The stuff with Aunt May has always ranked high with me as the most half-assed series of events. You have her die in dramatic fashion, she magically re-appears years later and it is revealed she never died. Then she is brought near death again to bring about the One More Day stuff (crappy idea but an acceptable comic). The problem with building continuity is it builds up and after a while it is hard to keep things going. Marvel at least divides it's character's private universes better so the whole universe isn't screwed up by single events as bad (Civil War aside). Its these continuity issues however that get fans frustrated enough to try new books and new genres which allow us such titles as Sandman and Walking Dead. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 23, 2012 10:28:20 GMT -5
The events in one character's universe should influence everything though. At least if we're being realistic. If Batman gets pissed off, sneaks into the White House and roughs up the President, that ought to be an event that will affect every hero potentially. To me it's weirder when you have events that affect just one hero. Especially in the Marvel universe where God and everyone operates out of NYC for some reason. So Spiderman tries to take down the Kingpin and ends up starting a gang war. Yet this doesn't affect the Fantastic Four at all even though they're in the same city.
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Post by T R W on May 23, 2012 11:17:19 GMT -5
The events in one character's universe should influence everything though. At least if we're being realistic. If Batman gets pissed off, sneaks into the White House and roughs up the President, that ought to be an event that will affect every hero potentially. To me it's weirder when you have events that affect just one hero. Especially in the Marvel universe where God and everyone operates out of NYC for some reason. So Spiderman tries to take down the Kingpin and ends up starting a gang war. Yet this doesn't affect the Fantastic Four at all even though they're in the same city. I get what you're saying, but that is a massive undertaking that would require hiring a lot more people, and raising their already out of control costs. To pull that off they are going to either have to have the same team writing all of their comics, or have a master plan years ahead of time, and basically dictate to all of the writers of the comics what their stories are going to be required to include. Which would probably bog down and ruin the quality of a lot of stories. It didn't used to be as big of a deal, because everything wasn't as inter-connected as it is now, and there weren't nearly as many crossover events. But honestly, I think best policy when reading a regular book, is to just say "I'm reading a Spider-Man story" and not worry about other characters. I mean, how much harder is it to suspend belief that the Fantastic Four wouldn't show up or aren't around at the monent than it is that a kid was bitten by a radioactive spider and got super powers? |
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Mr. Fluffykins
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Post by Mr. Fluffykins on May 23, 2012 16:18:28 GMT -5
The events in one character's universe should influence everything though. At least if we're being realistic. If Batman gets pissed off, sneaks into the White House and roughs up the President, that ought to be an event that will affect every hero potentially. To me it's weirder when you have events that affect just one hero. Especially in the Marvel universe where God and everyone operates out of NYC for some reason. So Spiderman tries to take down the Kingpin and ends up starting a gang war. Yet this doesn't affect the Fantastic Four at all even though they're in the same city. I get what you're saying, but that is a massive undertaking that would require hiring a lot more people, and raising their already out of control costs. To pull that off they are going to either have to have the same team writing all of their comics, or have a master plan years ahead of time, and basically dictate to all of the writers of the comics what their stories are going to be required to include. Which would probably bog down and ruin the quality of a lot of stories. It didn't used to be as big of a deal, because everything wasn't as inter-connected as it is now, and there weren't nearly as many crossover events. But honestly, I think best policy when reading a regular book, is to just say "I'm reading a Spider-Man story" and not worry about other characters. I mean, how much harder is it to suspend belief that the Fantastic Four wouldn't show up or aren't around at the monent than it is that a kid was bitten by a radioactive spider and got super powers?This is 100% how i feel. |
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Post by Hulkamaniac on May 23, 2012 18:21:15 GMT -5
The events in one character's universe should influence everything though. At least if we're being realistic. If Batman gets pissed off, sneaks into the White House and roughs up the President, that ought to be an event that will affect every hero potentially. To me it's weirder when you have events that affect just one hero. Especially in the Marvel universe where God and everyone operates out of NYC for some reason. So Spiderman tries to take down the Kingpin and ends up starting a gang war. Yet this doesn't affect the Fantastic Four at all even though they're in the same city. I get what you're saying, but that is a massive undertaking that would require hiring a lot more people, and raising their already out of control costs. To pull that off they are going to either have to have the same team writing all of their comics, or have a master plan years ahead of time, and basically dictate to all of the writers of the comics what their stories are going to be required to include. Which would probably bog down and ruin the quality of a lot of stories. It didn't used to be as big of a deal, because everything wasn't as inter-connected as it is now, and there weren't nearly as many crossover events. But honestly, I think best policy when reading a regular book, is to just say "I'm reading a Spider-Man story" and not worry about other characters. I mean, how much harder is it to suspend belief that the Fantastic Four wouldn't show up or aren't around at the monent than it is that a kid was bitten by a radioactive spider and got super powers? To me it's easier to believe in the DC universe. If Superman is fighting some bad guy and they destroy half of Metropolis, you don't expect Batman or Green Lantern to show up. They're in different cities. Hero's tend to take care of their own turf and stay off everyone else's. Let's say Spiderman is fighting Rhino though and they're tearing up half of Manhattan. The Thing is a rival of Rhino. Iron Man has fought him in the past. There is going to be some part of the story where Rhino is kicking Spiderman's ass. They are in the same city. Yet none of them show up. That just seems bizarre to me. Do they not care that their city is being torn up? Do they not care about Spiderman being beat on? It's one thing to be across the country. It's another thing to be in town where you're sure to hear about what is going on. Put it another way. If there's a gang shootout in one part of town around here you can bet that cops from all over town are going to go there to help. Why are hero's not the same way? Stark just needs to put on his suit and he can be there in 5 mins. But he does nothing. WTF? |
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threehgame
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Post by threehgame on May 23, 2012 22:40:02 GMT -5
Put it another way. If there's a gang shootout in one part of town around here you can bet that cops from all over town are going to go there to help. Why are hero's not the same way? Stark just needs to put on his suit and he can be there in 5 mins. But he does nothing. WTF? The Marvel Fanboy answer would be that each of their NY based heroes have a niche to deal with. If the Rhino or a street gang would start to rip apart the City the X-Men (when they were based in Upstate NY) would pass on it as no mutants are involved, the Fantastic Four deal with either scientific threats or world devastating threats so Rhino and gangs are to little for them to deal with. Unless its in Hell's Kitchen or a back alley Daredevil and the Punisher don't care. Captain America has to deal with national threats. That leaves Stark and Spider-man. Stark has to big an ego to deal with a street gang. He could fight Rhino but why show up and if Spider-man is already there. Being seen with Spidy could hurt your image. I agree there is a city of heroes and so few ever deal with an issue. Marvel has created justifications but really, they suck. DC was easier to get into and the New 52 is very simplified. What is hurting the New 52 is simply the drive from DC editorial to keep things simple and fast moving, which was what Marvel did for a while. |
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