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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2012 22:44:28 GMT -5
Great thread. How do we know Bryan is a hooker? We have no idea if he has ever been in a real match Going by the criteria outlined...who, in the last 40 years, has been a hooker? Severn? Angle? Shamrock? Del Rio? I always thought a shooter, was the one who Could "shoot" and start getting into real fighting. Didn't they say The Iron Sheik was paid to break Hogans leg the night he dropped the title? I recall in an interview he said he didn't do it because of his respect for Mcmahon. Excellent point. Technically, as far as we know no one has been a full fledged hooker. The full criteria is as follows: 1:Specializes in Catch Wrestling Hold & Techniques banned from competition. 2:Has been paid to cause injury to a wrestler who was scheduled to be the opponent of his employer or employer's client as managers were typically the ones sliding the money under the table. 3:Feared by majority of locker room due to reputation. Severn, Shamrock & Angle are ALL hookers in terms of skill & reputation kafabe or shoot. I suppose WORLD CLASS shooters would be the best description. As far as Danielson goes I would say he's the hooker of WWE since no one on the roster can out wrestle him in terms of a ratio spanned over consistency of work rate, technical wrestling skill, & sport specific athleticism.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 17:45:10 GMT -5
The way I understand it in an analogy of karate. Your journeymen were just toughguys, strongmen, footballplayers, streetfighters etc. The hookers would be an amature wrestler. Even guys at world champion levels in Greco, freestyle or Olympians were hookers simply due to the fact that what they trained for was different than pro wrestling. You can't bodyslam and I think many holds are illegal in these sport wrestling events. So yes a hooker can compete decently better than a journeyman who doesn't always have the basics. Now the hooker was suppose to be the master, like a blackbelt in karate. The shooter would be like a green or brown belt, he has the basic moves, the motions, conditioning but he's not a pro yet.
This is how I understand it. The hookers Developed their craft during downtime in the civil war as soldiers and made it a sport post civil war. Catch techniques are suppose to be crippling as they dgaf about hurting opponents. Point is without real events it's hard to have a legit game. Much like karate guys that punch air or point fight, pro wrestlers of today couldn't be legit at catch wrestling because there is no real contest. It's like choreographed wushu demonstrations. But there are new catch wrestling events thank god as the sport grows:)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 17:49:30 GMT -5
I always wish vince would invest in a catch wrestling org. He did a bodybuilding and XFL so why not pay it back to the sport that made u a billionaire? He could do wOnders with his power and money. Fingers crossed
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2012 19:43:43 GMT -5
I always wish vince would invest in a catch wrestling org. He did a bodybuilding and XFL so why not pay it back to the sport that made u a billionaire? He could do wOnders with his power and money. Fingers crossed He does it because there isn't a big enough fan base to make a promotion based around that style profitable . Probably why Regal never made it big.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 13:01:48 GMT -5
I gotta check out regal again, I never seen him do anything besides act a fool. I always liked the British bulldogs, iron sheik, as technicians. Dream match of mine was the crippler vs dynamite kid:)
And just because there isn't a fan base yet doesn't mean he couldn't build it up. It took a while to build up mma, but it's mainstream now. So bjj as a result is popular too. I personally think catch since it's not passive like bjj would be more exciting to see, if I could afford it I'd try to start a promotion lol. Plus it's american we need to get that made in the USA pride once again:)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2012 22:30:32 GMT -5
I gotta check out regal again, I never seen him do anything besides act a fool. I always liked the British bulldogs, iron sheik, as technicians. Dream match of mine was the crippler vs dynamite kid:) And just because there isn't a fan base yet doesn't mean he couldn't build it up. It took a while to build up mma, but it's mainstream now. So bjj as a result is popular too. I personally think catch since it's not passive like bjj would be more exciting to see, if I could afford it I'd try to start a promotion lol. Plus it's american we need to get that made in the USA pride once again:) You raise a good point.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Aug 25, 2012 23:51:10 GMT -5
Mod: Lock it up, I've lost control of the thread's purpose.
I'm amazed at all the love for Catch as catch can, but PLEASE leave the MMA discussion out of it. I am discussing semantics, not a silly "who would win in a fight?" nonsense.
leonidas75 - You understand the definitions in the original sense, but not the point of the discussion. Just read what I just stated right above this again. I enjoyed your analogy by the way.
In the mean time, you all raise interesting points that are rellevant by extension, I'm just unsure of how to address them thorough just yet.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2012 0:39:16 GMT -5
I'm sorry for causing the mma response.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2012 18:19:45 GMT -5
Sorry for bringing martial arts into in guys. My uncles were collegiant wrestlers and they'd do all the pro wrestling moves till we'd be in tears lol. That's what got me into pro wrestling in the 80's. My other uncle was into martial arts which got me into that.
Anyhow I would just have to say one can practice choreographed anything and until you actually have a legit contest to compete in it's hard to say yeah he's a badass. In the farmer burns gotch days. Some matches were thrown but the majority were not. I still watch classic wrestling often, but I can't say I love wrestling today. I appreciate the athletics these guys have but I think wrestlings peak was in the mid 80's.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Aug 27, 2012 0:12:41 GMT -5
I'm sorry for causing the mma response. It's no problem. I just hate the " shoot arguments" since who would win does not matter. It is effortless to criticize the toughness of a wrestler until you're asked to get in the ring. Any man who has wrestling talent worthy of remembrance luis long after his death, retirement or his debut is a man of toughness & durability. From Abdullah The Butcher to Zack Ryder(FYI I despise him.) Some may not be the toughest men, but they are much tougher than you or anyone in the audience.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2012 23:19:44 GMT -5
On that wwe round table thingy, they were talking about the iron sheik and the toughness of this other guy I don't remember anyway the guy got in a car crash landed in a canal with a broken neck and underwater broke out and swam his way out. I think that's only part of the story. I read dunno if it's true but they say farmer burns was so tuff and worked his neck out so much he could do a hangmans drop from High up and be fine. That's crazy tuff
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Post by paperbackhero on Aug 29, 2012 9:34:39 GMT -5
On that wwe round table thingy, they were talking about the iron sheik and the toughness of this other guy I don't remember anyway the guy got in a car crash landed in a canal with a broken neck and underwater broke out and swam his way out. I think that's only part of the story. I read dunno if it's true but they say farmer burns was so tuff and worked his neck out so much he could do a hangmans drop from High up and be fine. That's crazy tuff They were talking about Danny Hodge. Great story.
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