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Post by sean™ on Nov 30, 2012 14:29:37 GMT -5
What is your definition of a First Ballot Hall of Famer, and who do you feel fits the definition?
Can be someone who is currently in a HOF, is going in soon, or you believe will be some day.
This is kind of general question for all sports, but I warn I've got Football on the brain so that's probably where my focus will stay.
I'll start off with an obvious one.
Peyton Manning.
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Post by Kliquid on Nov 30, 2012 14:40:29 GMT -5
In the NFL...
Brett Favre Tom Brady Peyton Manning Ray Lewis
I don't believe anyone else is a 100% lock to make it on their first ballot. Guys like Randy Moss are probably on the cusp but because of is off-field problems, he might not get in right away.
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Post by sonstuds on Nov 30, 2012 14:57:01 GMT -5
In the NFL... Brett Favre Tom Brady Peyton Manning Ray Lewis I don't believe anyone else is a 100% lock to make it on their first ballot. Guys like Randy Moss are probably on the cusp but because of is off-field problems, he might not get in right away. Tony Gonzalez and Drew Brees (he has the stats and the championship) are the only other two at the top of my head I'd feel pretty certain on getting in first ballot. I would say Ed Reed but I'm iffy because of how hard it can be to get in for defensive backs. It took Paul Krause like 20 years to get in and he's still the all time leader in interceptions.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Nov 30, 2012 15:01:55 GMT -5
It depends on the sport. In baseball Clemens and Bonds would be locks if it weren't for the fact that both used 'roids.
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Post by Kliquid on Nov 30, 2012 15:08:04 GMT -5
Yeah, Gonzalez should also be added to my list.
Drew Brees isn't a lock unless he gets another ring.
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Post by sean™ on Nov 30, 2012 16:48:41 GMT -5
To me, a First Ballot HOFer isn't just someone that won games and dominated the stats, as I see those as being requirements for a Hall of Fame in the first place. A First Ballot HOF has to be someone that changed the game, or changed how people think about the game. Someone that left an impact and an impression on not just fans, but the league itself.
Tony G should be in, based on his consistancy alone. To not only come in and start playing at a high level on a not-so high level team, and continue that same production throughout the years. Now, to be honest, despite what we all think....he most likely won't make it in first run unless he leaves the game with a Ring. Which is sad.
With Peyton, I don't even know where to begin. I still argue that he had a fair chance of winning MVP last year, even with not playing a single game. And while their defense has only gotten better, Denver is almost a whole different team this year just based on the presense of Peyton.
And as for Brady. Well, he's just some 6th round back up QB. I doubt he'll be inducted...
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Post by Kliquid on Nov 30, 2012 16:50:20 GMT -5
Champ Bailey should also be a lock for first ballot.
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Post by sean™ on Nov 30, 2012 16:53:53 GMT -5
Now that we've got a few names thrown out there, what matters more in your decisions?
Stats? Overall Wins? Popularity? Rings?
I think it's a little soon, but if he keeps playing the way he does and perhaps wins "the big one", I could see Peterson being a First Ballot.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Nov 30, 2012 16:55:05 GMT -5
Brady, Favre, Lewis, Manning, Bailey Jeter, Pujols, Griffey Jr Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Shaq
Guys I think about. I know I am missing more
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Post by sean™ on Nov 30, 2012 16:56:48 GMT -5
Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Shaq Guys I think about. I know I am missing more Nash?
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Nov 30, 2012 17:08:52 GMT -5
Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Shaq Guys I think about. I know I am missing more Nash? NBA is such a mess you are probably right but when I think first ballot I think top 10 player in the game throughout his entire career, or someone who is an all time great. I dont think of Nash like that, but hes close. He will probably get in first ballot, Pierce, Allen, might. Duncan will def, Wade might even though hes a bitch. Basketball is tough because the HOF is a joke.
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Post by Scotty on Nov 30, 2012 17:13:13 GMT -5
Brady, Favre, Lewis, Manning, Bailey Jeter, Pujols, Griffey Jr Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Shaq Guys I think about. I know I am missing more Kidd?
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Post by sean™ on Nov 30, 2012 17:29:33 GMT -5
NBA is such a mess you are probably right but when I think first ballot I think top 10 player in the game throughout his entire career, or someone who is an all time great. I dont think of Nash like that, but hes close. He will probably get in first ballot, Pierce, Allen, might. Duncan will def, Wade might even though hes a bitch. Basketball is tough because the HOF is a joke. I just spit my Cherry Coke out all over my keyboard takes to the Wade comment. Touche sir. I'll be honest, I'm not the biggest NBA fan so I enjoy hearing comments on other sport's criteria.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Nov 30, 2012 17:40:06 GMT -5
Brady, Favre, Lewis, Manning, Bailey Jeter, Pujols, Griffey Jr Kobe, Lebron, Garnett, Shaq Guys I think about. I know I am missing more Kidd? Yes Kidd is a first ballot HOF, best PG since Magic. See there are so many guys who might go in on the first ballot, but I would never consider them "First ballot HOF'ers"
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Post by sean™ on Nov 30, 2012 17:41:03 GMT -5
SO, if you don't mind me asking, what would YOUR criteria be for a true NBA Hall of Famer?
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Nov 30, 2012 17:47:39 GMT -5
SO, if you don't mind me asking, what would YOUR criteria be for a true NBA Hall of Famer? I dunno its tough, the basketball HOF is all of basketball, but it would need to be guys who are considered the best in the league at that time, or did something better than anyone for a long long time. Like is Vince Carter a HOFer? I dont think so, hes an bunghole and never won anything, but he scored A LOT! And once Bernard King goes in, Carter and Carmelo Anthony guys like that will get in. And you cant say "If you win an MVP, you are in" Its tough, it will never be perfect. But if you dominate a period of time, I think that gets you in.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2012 18:03:43 GMT -5
In terms of the NFL, I think there a plenty of guys who are in the "top five ever" at their respective position. Brady and Manning are locks. Tony G. I know a lot of people think Tony is on the bubble, but he's onhe of the best tight ends of all time. On the defensive side, you have guys like Lewis, who revolutionized, and changed how the linebacker position was played. Then you have guys like Reed, who also changed how the game was played. People have said that Reed's "decline" is coming because of lack of stats, it all honesty, guys are just avoided Reed now.
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Post by pfrchaos on Nov 30, 2012 18:05:26 GMT -5
In the NHL...
Dominik Hasek Martin Brodeur Nick Lidstrom Teemu Selanne
Sidney Crosby will be there eventually, he just needs to stay healthy.
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Post by Greg Weinstein on Nov 30, 2012 18:08:46 GMT -5
One that hasn't been mentioned: Kurt Warner
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Post by Tim of thee on Nov 30, 2012 18:10:38 GMT -5
In the NFL... Brett Favre Tom Brady Peyton Manning Ray Lewis I don't believe anyone else is a 100% lock to make it on their first ballot. Guys like Randy Moss are probably on the cusp but because of is off-field problems, he might not get in right away. completely forgot LaDainian "Jesus" Tomlinson nicky
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