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Post by Tim of thee on Feb 4, 2013 21:35:45 GMT -5
and what of the numerous studies that have found that there is a higher chance of someone owning a gun killing themself or their family members than someone attacking their home? A suicidal person is going to kill themselves with whatever means necessary. If they didn't have access to a gun, they'd take pills or hang themselves or whatever. Outlawing guns will not stop them from killing themselves. What exactly is the government going to do to me that the appropriate response is going to include an AR-15, though? Start a petition, create a politically active group that gets your message out to the media, propose a bill or law change.....anybody who doesn't like what the government is doing and their first reaction is to get a gun just comes off as a lunatic. If what you say is true and I must be as equipped as the government so I can meet every action with an equal reaction, I really don't think the government is going to come after me with a gun, so me needing one just in case seems like a counterproductive endeavor. Ruby Ridge is one example of what they'll do to you. The Taliban resisted Russia and the US with only guns. They didn't have planes to drop bombs from, hell they didn't have bombs. (Not saying the Taliban are people to look up to or take advice from but it does show that gun power can help you resist those with more power) Look at all the countries where their leaders are attacking them. Guns will do them good because they can resist. If the government is willing to drop a bomb on your house and kill hundreds or thousands of people in the surrounding area then yeah maybe guns won't help in your fight. But wouldn't you want to arm yourself against a force that is willing to do whatever it takes to take you out? Would you want to be unarmed if the situation ever arose? I'd rather have the populace trained and armed to protect themselves from something that may never happen than to have them all unarmed and something happen. and lets not forget the jewish resistance efforts during WW2 gun confiscation followed by government take over is not an archaic idea.. it's happening as we speak
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:36:39 GMT -5
A suicidal person is going to kill themselves with whatever means necessary. If they didn't have access to a gun, they'd take pills or hang themselves or whatever. Outlawing guns will not stop them from killing themselves. Ruby Ridge is one example of what they'll do to you. The Taliban resisted Russia and the US with only guns. They didn't have planes to drop bombs from, hell they didn't have bombs. (Not saying the Taliban are people to look up to or take advice from but it does show that gun power can help you resist those with more power) Look at all the countries where their leaders are attacking them. Guns will do them good because they can resist. If the government is willing to drop a bomb on your house and kill hundreds or thousands of people in the surrounding area then yeah maybe guns won't help in your fight. But wouldn't you want to arm yourself against a force that is willing to do whatever it takes to take you out? Would you want to be unarmed if the situation ever arose? I'd rather have the populace trained and armed to protect themselves from something that may never happen than to have them all unarmed and something happen. and lets not forget the jewish resistance efforts during WW2 gun confiscation followed by government take over is not an archaic idea.. it's happening as we speak If you honestly think a government take over in the United States is possible in this day and age, you might possibly be insane.
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:36:43 GMT -5
Except like I said, cars have risk but for high reward. Guns have very high risk for practically zero reward. Doesn't matter. If we go by the Constitution, guns are a protected right. Owning a car is not.
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:39:06 GMT -5
Except like I said, cars have risk but for high reward. Guns have very high risk for practically zero reward. Doesn't matter. If we go by the Constitution, guns are a protected right. Owning a car is not. Constitution can suck my balls. I'm sick of people going on about it like it's the be all end all for everything and everyone must BOW DOWN TO THIS SACRED DOCUMENT. At the end of the day, these days it's just a piece of paper. An outdated concept with outdated laws written on a crumbly old piece of paper.
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Post by Tim of thee on Feb 4, 2013 21:40:19 GMT -5
Doesn't matter. If we go by the Constitution, guns are a protected right. Owning a car is not. Constitution can suck my balls. I'm sick of people going on about it like it's the be all end all for everything and everyone must BOW DOWN TO THIS SACRED DOCUMENT. At the end of the day, these days it's just a piece of paper. An outdated concept with outdated laws written on a crumbly old piece of paper. and I'm insane..? right buddy
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:40:24 GMT -5
and lets not forget the jewish resistance efforts during WW2 gun confiscation followed by government take over is not an archaic idea.. it's happening as we speak If you honestly think a government take over in the United States is possible in this day and age, you might possibly be insane. Because things like the NDAA, Patriot Act and the like are perfectly fine and no reason to fear those things. It's not like our government rounded up people in the 40s because of their race and threw them in internment camps.
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:41:53 GMT -5
Doesn't matter. If we go by the Constitution, guns are a protected right. Owning a car is not. Constitution can suck my balls. I'm sick of people going on about it like it's the be all end all for everything and everyone must BOW DOWN TO THIS SACRED DOCUMENT. At the end of the day, these days it's just a piece of paper. An outdated concept with outdated laws written on a crumbly old piece of paper. So you disagree with protecting our right to a fair trial? The right to due process? And so on.
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:42:10 GMT -5
Constitution can suck my balls. I'm sick of people going on about it like it's the be all end all for everything and everyone must BOW DOWN TO THIS SACRED DOCUMENT. At the end of the day, these days it's just a piece of paper. An outdated concept with outdated laws written on a crumbly old piece of paper. and I'm insane..? right buddy If the government wanted to take over the United States right now, they could. Do you think some poxy puny guns are going to stop tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons and such? Get real.
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:44:15 GMT -5
and I'm insane..? right buddy If the government wanted to take over the United States right now, they could. Do you think some poxy puny guns are going to stop tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons and such? Get real. So we should give up our guns and roll over?
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:45:24 GMT -5
Constitution can suck my balls. I'm sick of people going on about it like it's the be all end all for everything and everyone must BOW DOWN TO THIS SACRED DOCUMENT. At the end of the day, these days it's just a piece of paper. An outdated concept with outdated laws written on a crumbly old piece of paper. So you disagree with protecting our right to a fair trial? The right to due process? And so on. No, I don't disagree with that but I believe certain parts are horribly outdated. The right to a fair trial is a given. This isn't 1787 where everything needs to be written down on a piece of paper for it to be "official". In this day and age, a right to a fair trial is commonplace. You honestly think if the Constitution disappeared tomorrow, the US government would just go "Oh, I guess we can do whatever we want now. LET'S DESTROY EVERYTHING AND PERSECUTE EVERYBODY!"?
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:46:31 GMT -5
If the government wanted to take over the United States right now, they could. Do you think some poxy puny guns are going to stop tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons and such? Get real. So we should give up our guns and roll over? Other countries do it just fine. I don't think the UK is worried about the government rising up and taking away everyone's rights just because they don't have guns. Why is America?
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:50:33 GMT -5
So you disagree with protecting our right to a fair trial? The right to due process? And so on. No, I don't disagree with that but I believe certain parts are horribly outdated. The right to a fair trial is a given. This isn't 1787 where everything needs to be written down on a piece of paper for it to be "official". In this day and age, a right to a fair trial is commonplace. You honestly think if the Constitution disappeared tomorrow, the US government would just go "Oh, I guess we can do whatever we want now. LET'S DESTROY EVERYTHING AND PERSECUTE EVERYBODY!"? So what if it is common place? Government needs to be restrained. There needs to be strict rules the government adheres to. The Constitution doesn't give us our rights, it affirms our rights. Yes, I do believe if it disappeared tomorrow they would not give people fair trials, they would punish people with cruel and unusual punishments and so on. I mean they already do violate those things but I think it would be even worse. People are complacent so they don't challenge governments overreach and violations of the Constitution. They don't think the system is in their favor to really change anything. The only solution is a complete overhaul of government and the system.
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Post by Tim of thee on Feb 4, 2013 21:51:39 GMT -5
and I'm insane..? right buddy If the government wanted to take over the United States right now, they could. Do you think some poxy puny guns are going to stop tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons and such? Get real. I find your tone incredibly rude, so much so that it distracts from the points you're trying to make. Is that how you would speak to me if we were in the same room together?
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:52:25 GMT -5
So we should give up our guns and roll over? Other countries do it just fine. I don't think the UK is worried about the government rising up and taking away everyone's rights just because they don't have guns. Why is America? Because we have experience with governments, here and abroad, stepping on our rights. We had to fight off an oppressive government before and we should have the means to do it again.
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:55:11 GMT -5
Our President has killed at least 2 Americans simply by signing orders that order their deaths.
If he can kill Americans on foreign soil why is it unlikely that he (or another President in the future) would do it here?
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:55:12 GMT -5
No, I don't disagree with that but I believe certain parts are horribly outdated. The right to a fair trial is a given. This isn't 1787 where everything needs to be written down on a piece of paper for it to be "official". In this day and age, a right to a fair trial is commonplace. You honestly think if the Constitution disappeared tomorrow, the US government would just go "Oh, I guess we can do whatever we want now. LET'S DESTROY EVERYTHING AND PERSECUTE EVERYBODY!"? So what if it is common place? Government needs to be restrained. There needs to be strict rules the government adheres to. The Constitution doesn't give us our rights, it affirms our rights. Yes, I do believe if it disappeared tomorrow they would not give people fair trials, they would punish people with cruel and unusual punishments and so on. I mean they already do violate those things but I think it would be even worse. People are complacent so they don't challenge governments overreach and violations of the Constitution. They don't think the system is in their favor to really change anything. The only solution is a complete overhaul of government and the system. And your basis for this is basically a conspiracy theory. The US government doing whatever they please WOULD NOT be allowed to happen in 2013. Do you honestly think the rest of the world would just let that happen? Put down the book, use some common sense.
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:56:01 GMT -5
If the government wanted to take over the United States right now, they could. Do you think some poxy puny guns are going to stop tanks, missiles, nuclear weapons and such? Get real. I find your tone incredibly rude, so much so that it distracts from the points you're trying to make. Is that how you would speak to me if we were in the same room together? I'd be saying "Get real" in a sassy stereotypical black woman way
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:56:58 GMT -5
Other countries do it just fine. I don't think the UK is worried about the government rising up and taking away everyone's rights just because they don't have guns. Why is America? Because we have experience with governments, here and abroad, stepping on our rights. We had to fight off an oppressive government before and we should have the means to do it again. Again, you're using examples from hundreds of years ago. This is 2013, it wouldn't happen.
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Post by glenanncam on Feb 4, 2013 21:57:43 GMT -5
Our President has killed at least 2 Americans simply by signing orders that order their deaths. If he can kill Americans on foreign soil why is it unlikely that he (or another President in the future) would do it here? I don't actually know much about that, but I'd say it was for the good of the country. I doubt it was a case of "Eh, I'm bored. Go kill a couple people will ya?".
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Post by slappy on Feb 4, 2013 21:58:33 GMT -5
So what if it is common place? Government needs to be restrained. There needs to be strict rules the government adheres to. The Constitution doesn't give us our rights, it affirms our rights. Yes, I do believe if it disappeared tomorrow they would not give people fair trials, they would punish people with cruel and unusual punishments and so on. I mean they already do violate those things but I think it would be even worse. People are complacent so they don't challenge governments overreach and violations of the Constitution. They don't think the system is in their favor to really change anything. The only solution is a complete overhaul of government and the system. And your basis for this is basically a conspiracy theory. The US government doing whatever they please WOULD NOT be allowed to happen in 2013. Do you honestly think the rest of the world would just let that happen? Put down the book, use some common sense. What conspiracy theory would that be? You're right, the government hasn't purposefully killed Americans (Abdulrahman and Anwar Al-Awlaki) or holding them indefinitely in terrible conditions (Bradley Manning). What exactly do you think would stop them from doing what they please?
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