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Post by punksnotdead on Jan 25, 2013 10:31:38 GMT -5
yes it could........and Nash was very good at playing this type of character......he did it again during the nWo. when the powerbomb was banned Nash used to use it anyway......and started getting over as hell as a rebellious babyface.....I guarantee if he had stuck around in 96 he would have been getting cheered against HBK. Yeah I can't help but think that Summerslam 1996 would have been a much bigger deal if it had been Diesel vs Shawn. Not that Vader wasn't awesome. But he was booked HORRIBLY against Shawn. They had a 400 lb monster heel run in fear from the 225lb dancing face. That was the original plan right? For Diesel vs Shawn at SummerSlam and then Diesel was winning the title back until San Antonio? Sid ended up filling in that role eventually, but it would have made sense for Shawn to hold it until SummerSlam, win it back at Rumble and then he would have faced Bret at WM13 as planned. Diesel was ing awesome in 96 though too when he turned. Nash is just kind of an egotistical prick in real life and he was far better suited for that NWO anti hero character. It's impossible as a fan not to appreciate that type of charisma imo, and Nash oozes it. I was cheering for Diesel at WM12. So he was doing something right imo. I used to cheer for Owen too though haha so who knows.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 10:38:56 GMT -5
Yeah I can't help but think that Summerslam 1996 would have been a much bigger deal if it had been Diesel vs Shawn. Not that Vader wasn't awesome. But he was booked HORRIBLY against Shawn. They had a 400 lb monster heel run in fear from the 225lb dancing face. That was the original plan right? For Diesel vs Shawn at SummerSlam and then Diesel was winning the title back until San Antonio? Sid ended up filling in that role eventually, but it would have made sense for Shawn to hold it until SummerSlam, win it back at Rumble and then he would have faced Bret at WM13 as planned. Diesel was ing awesome in 96 though too when he turned. Nash is just kind of an egotistical prick in real life and he was far better suited for that NWO anti hero character. It's impossible as a fan not to appreciate that type of charisma imo, and Nash oozes it. I was cheering for Diesel at WM12. So he was doing something right imo. I used to cheer for Owen too though haha so who knows. Yeah, Diesel had my support over The Undertaker at WM12. And you are right, that was the original plan. Owen and Neidhart have been pretty much my favorites since I started watching. Imagine how different it would have been if Nash hadn't defected to WCW. For a start there'd be no NWO... - Would he have lead DX? - Who would he have faced at WM13, 14 and beyond? - Would Austin have reached the heights he did with such a similar stick as Nash? - Austin/Nash feud? - Would he have won Rumble 97 over Austin? - Would Bret have been screwed? - Would Shawn have injured his back? There's almost too much to comprehend. Nash leaving for WCW could very well be the most important and had the most drastic long-changing effect in the history of wrestling.
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Post by OmegaGaijin on Jan 25, 2013 13:56:51 GMT -5
I agree with the consensus that there has always been that potential for the loner anti-hero. You look at films (which i think has a lot of parallels with pro wrestling) like Pale Rider & High Plains Drifter where Clint Eastwood was the anti-hero, he was really popular in that role.
The anti hero has been around for a long time, for our fathers & probably theirs too. Strange how the wrestling industry didn't capitalize on the dozens of opportunity's they had till the 90's.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 14:34:18 GMT -5
That was the original plan right? For Diesel vs Shawn at SummerSlam and then Diesel was winning the title back until San Antonio? Sid ended up filling in that role eventually, but it would have made sense for Shawn to hold it until SummerSlam, win it back at Rumble and then he would have faced Bret at WM13 as planned. Diesel was ing awesome in 96 though too when he turned. Nash is just kind of an egotistical prick in real life and he was far better suited for that NWO anti hero character. It's impossible as a fan not to appreciate that type of charisma imo, and Nash oozes it. I was cheering for Diesel at WM12. So he was doing something right imo. I used to cheer for Owen too though haha so who knows. Yeah, Diesel had my support over The Undertaker at WM12. And you are right, that was the original plan. Owen and Neidhart have been pretty much my favorites since I started watching. Imagine how different it would have been if Nash hadn't defected to WCW. For a start there'd be no NWO... - Would he have lead DX?- Who would he have faced at WM13, 14 and beyond? - Would Austin have reached the heights he did with such a similar stick as Nash? - Austin/Nash feud? - Would he have won Rumble 97 over Austin? - Would Bret have been screwed? - Would Shawn have injured his back? There's almost too much to comprehend. Nash leaving for WCW could very well be the most important and had the most drastic long-changing effect in the history of wrestling. I think the proper question is "would there have BEEN a DX??" DX was clearly something that was needed, to rival the NWO in a sort. I know they weren't identical at all, but they both had similarities. I often feel though that Nash would have been the 'Rick Rude' of DX in 97, if he came back to the WWE at that time.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2013 14:48:11 GMT -5
I think Nash & Hall leaving was very important too.with them no
nWo no WCW ratings bonanza no need to for Vince to think outside the box(DX,Austin etc etc)
it was better for the entire werestling world that they left when they did.and I say "they" because Hall was as important as Nash in the sucess of nWo.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 6:54:37 GMT -5
also Hall made the anti hero work in 93........Razor Ramon was such a cool character fans cheered him anyway.....Vince was left with little choice but to turn him.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 8:48:48 GMT -5
Oh yeah it's obvious that Hall/Nash leaving was hugely important and for the best. But I just find it hard to get my hear around how much two people impacted the entire industry.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2013 10:41:37 GMT -5
yeah its crazy.....those two moving changed SO much.unreal.
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Raine
Main Eventer
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Post by Raine on Jan 27, 2013 12:01:44 GMT -5
It was the manner that Nash/Hall debuted that was the major impact. Everyone believed it was a WWF invasion. It was only because Vince pursued legal action forcing Hall/Nash/WCW to admit they were not working for him.
The net was not as prominent as source of wrestling news as it is today, therefore not many people were aware Hall/Nash were actually leaving the WWF. Same with Luger in 1995.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Jan 27, 2013 15:54:47 GMT -5
Oh yeah it's obvious that Hall/Nash leaving was hugely important and for the best. But I just find it hard to get my hear around how much two people impacted the entire industry. Hall & Nash leaving the WWF to WCW was meant to happen. If Hall & Nash stayed in the WWF, odds are there wouldn't have been no D-Generation X and no nWo. Additionally, there wouldn't have been a boom period that made wrestling relevant again. What amazes me that after almost 20 years, Hall & Nash going to WCW made a huge impact on the industry. The idea of having Hogan aligning himself with Hall & Nash caused a ton of spark throughout the wrestling world. Mind you, I didn't have the internet back then. Having remember Bash At The Beach '96, this event sparked interest in wrestling once again. The anti-hero worked out well because Vince McMahon placed Austin into that spot. The fact that Hall & Nash defected to WCW and subsequently forming the nWo with Hogan, that caused McMahon to make changes to the WWF. The rise of Jerry Springer & South Park in the late-90's added the nature in which the late-90's is fondly remembered for. Like Austin's rise as the anti-hero, the departure of Hall & Nash made that possible. D-Generation X became about due to the success of the nWo. When one thing happens, it can cause raid changes within the industry. The advent of DX, Austin 3:16, and the nWo personifies how one thing can lead to the other.
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Infinite
Main Eventer
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Post by Infinite on Jan 27, 2013 16:56:02 GMT -5
What I've noticed is that WWE seem to still be making the same mistakes today. If you look back at Punk's mega push in 2011, you'll see how he slowly turns more and more towards the conventional hero role, as he kisses up to the fans more, makes the standard bad 'good guy jokes' and really just loses his edge. Stupid really, he could have been huge, even compared to what he is today if they'd just stuck to the anti hero role.
Agree on the Diesel point too, as well as the WWF at the time constantly misguidedly trying to fill the hole Hogan left.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 27, 2013 17:37:39 GMT -5
Oh yeah it's obvious that Hall/Nash leaving was hugely important and for the best. But I just find it hard to get my hear around how much two people impacted the entire industry. Hall & Nash leaving the WWF to WCW was meant to happen. If Hall & Nash stayed in the WWF, odds are there wouldn't have been no D-Generation X and no nWo. Additionally, there wouldn't have been a boom period that made wrestling relevant again. What amazes me that after almost 20 years, Hall & Nash going to WCW made a huge impact on the industry. The idea of having Hogan aligning himself with Hall & Nash caused a ton of spark throughout the wrestling world. Mind you, I didn't have the internet back then. Having remember Bash At The Beach '96, this event sparked interest in wrestling once again. The anti-hero worked out well because Vince McMahon placed Austin into that spot. The fact that Hall & Nash defected to WCW and subsequently forming the nWo with Hogan, that caused McMahon to make changes to the WWF. The rise of Jerry Springer & South Park in the late-90's added the nature in which the late-90's is fondly remembered for. Like Austin's rise as the anti-hero, the departure of Hall & Nash made that possible. D-Generation X became about due to the success of the nWo. When one thing happens, it can cause raid changes within the industry. The advent of DX, Austin 3:16, and the nWo personifies how one thing can lead to the other. agreed. and one thing everyone needs to keep in mind - Hall and Nash leaving may have directly lead to Austin's rise. why? because if they hadn't been leaving,there would've been no MSG Curtain Call. no Curtain Call, Triple H goes on to win King of the Ring 1996, and we get no Austin 3:16 speech upon Stone Cold's winning of the tournament instead and subsuquent push.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2013 5:40:39 GMT -5
yup.....I bet punishing HHH is one decision Vinnie doesnt regret.
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