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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 18, 2013 23:35:46 GMT -5
I have no idea how anyone, right now, could say Lebron is better than Michael Jordan.
For one its a debate that needs to happen AFTER Lebron retires, but if you wanna do it now, why is he better than MJ?
Last time I checked 6 beats 1, and thats just the rings part. You wanna get into joining a super team, or whatever.
There is not even a clear consensus that Lebron is better than Kobe but people wanna say Lebron is better than MJ? Child please.
Also, Bill Russell is teh 2nd greatest player of all time, you young'uns need to get some old school knowledge for forgetting him
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Post by Nivro™ on Feb 18, 2013 23:40:31 GMT -5
I'd just like to argue one thing, taking James off the Heat would not leave the Heat as a favorite to win the Eastern Conference. A domino effect would occur and more than likely a lot of the depth players would look elsewhere for more playing time and with powerhouses emerging from Indiana, Chicago, New York, Brooklyn and possibly Cleveland, the Heat would be more in the same spot the Lakers are in this year. We're not talking about moving multiple players off of a team. Simply removing James from the Heat and leaving everything the same, they're still A favorite for the Easter Conference.
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jeffro2000
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Post by jeffro2000 on Feb 18, 2013 23:52:30 GMT -5
I'd just like to argue one thing, taking James off the Heat would not leave the Heat as a favorite to win the Eastern Conference. A domino effect would occur and more than likely a lot of the depth players would look elsewhere for more playing time and with powerhouses emerging from Indiana, Chicago, New York, Brooklyn and possibly Cleveland, the Heat would be more in the same spot the Lakers are in this year. We're not talking about moving multiple players off of a team. Simply removing James from the Heat and leaving everything the same, they're still A favorite for the Easter Conference. They would be. Wade, Bosh, Allen, etc. I mean, who is better on paper with the Celtics injured and Bulls. Nets? Knicks? Pacers? Sure any of those teams may beat them, or likely would, but the Heat would still be one of the favorites on paper. Obviously we don't know how they would play without Lebron.
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 19, 2013 0:40:07 GMT -5
The OP clearly never watched the NBA in the 80s and 90s. The league was much more physical back then and Jordan went to war against the Pistons, Celtics, Knicks, Hawks, and Pacers. People have to remember that after Jordan left, David Stern implemented a ton of new rules to make it easier for someone to try an emulate Jordan (like creating the stupid hand check fouls and three seconds under the basket rules that make it harder for defenders).
And the fact you claim Jordan always had a good team is bs. Jordan got his ass kicked for years in the playoffs until the team developed around him. Even after Pippen and Grant were drafted, it took years before they developed enough to win their first title. And to say when Jordan was out the team still won shows how ignorant the OP is. Jordan left for two years, and the Bulls failed twice to win titles without him. And you can't compare Jordan's teams and Jame's teams because they were two completly different eras. In the 80s, there were much fewer teams and far more talented ones at that. A much tougher era. In the 00s, Stern turned the league into a joke and Lebron dragged the Cavs to the finals in a weak Eastern Conferance. That Cavs team w/ Lebron from 07 would have been destroyed if they went up against the 80s Pistons, Celtics, and Lakers (Jordan has even said those teams wouldn't be able to play today because of the rules implemented to limit defenses). And take the current Heat team and put them in the 80s and 90s, and the Bulls, Pistons, Lakers, Knicks, Jazz, Rockets, and Suns would eat them alive. And when it came to titles, like Jordan has stated, he never lost. Unlike Magic, Bird, Kobe, and yes, Lebron, he never failed when he got to the finals.
Now as for comparing him w/ Lebron, its impossible because they are two completly different types of players. Lebron's style is much more similar to guys like Magic Johnson and Scottie Pippen. He is a facilitator who can do not only play almost any position on the court, but is a great long defender as well as a versitile offensive player. While Jordan was amazing on both sides of the ball, there games were completly different because of their differances in sizes and playing styles.
But if you wanted to chose one to build a team around, Jordan every time. Lebron lacks the killer instinct that Jordan, Magic, Bird, Russel, and even Kobe had/has. Lebron is the best player today, but winning isn't number one to him, as evident by his statement that rings don't define a player (rings arn't everything, but they do lift a player to elite status).
If I had to go w/ a top 10 of all time I'd go w/...
1) Michael Jordan - no explanation needed
2) Magic Johnson - the first point-forward who changed the way one plays the game. Being a 6'9" PG is friggin unbelievable for todays standards, and Lebron seemed to be the next version of Magic. The guy was so versitile that he played every position in the 80s finals on his way to winning his first title.
3) Bill Russel - Helped to revolutionize the center position by being the first big man to not only become arguably the best facilitator on his team, but also be able to bring the ball up court when needed. Helped to revolutionize the fast break as well. His 11 rings tell the whole story.
4) Kareem Abdul Jabbar - The guy dominated for two decades, winning 5 of his 6 MVPs in the 70s while also helping to bring the Milwaukee Bucks their only world title. In the 80s he continued his dominance w/ Magic and the Lakers.
5) Oscar Robertson - The only guy to ever average a triple double over an entire season. His 186 triple-doubles is also a record not even Lebron will come close to.
6) Larry Bird - While Bird is slightly overrated for his lack of defensive skills and limited atheltic skills, the guy was one of the best pure shooters in NBA history and there is a reason he won 3 straight MVPs while helping to make the Celtics the best team in the 80s.
7) Wilt Chamberlain - The guy was a beast for his era, winning two NBA Titles, 7 scoring titles, 11 rebounding titles, and 4 MVPs. The main knock against Wilt is that like Lebron, he lacked the motivation and killer instinct to be the best.
8) Tim Duncan - Like Charles Barkley says, the best PF of all time. He may not be flashy, but his 4 NBA titles and MVP award prove how good he truely is. And the fact he still makes the Spurs relevant at his age shows his worth.
9) Hakeem Olajuwan - The first man since Bill Walton in the 70s to single handedly lead a team to the NBA finals and win, Hakeem "The Dream" was arguably the best center in the 90s, and thats saying something considering the talent at that spot during the era he played in. The guy had some of the best post moves ever for a big man, and there is a reason guys like Lebron and Dwight Howard constantly train with him during the summer months.
10) David Robinson - Another amaing big man who was able to put up 40+ point games 23 times while winning 2 NBA titles, an MVP award, and a defensive player of the year award. Just a monster, but is below Duncan because he simply could not get the job done until Tim showed up.
Because Lebron has so many years left I don't want to put him on this list yet, but when all is said and done he will most likely be on this list.
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Post by cordless2016 on Feb 19, 2013 0:50:44 GMT -5
We're not talking about moving multiple players off of a team. Simply removing James from the Heat and leaving everything the same, they're still A favorite for the Easter Conference. They would be. Wade, Bosh, Allen, etc. I mean, who is better on paper with the Celtics injured and Bulls. Nets? Knicks? Pacers? Sure any of those teams may beat them, or likely would, but the Heat would still be one of the favorites on paper. Obviously we don't know how they would play without Lebron. W/out Lebron on the Heat, the Pacers and a healthy Bulls team become tops in the East. Wade is not as consistently dominant like he use to be on a nightly basis, and has become more of a dirty player over time. Bosh is shooting so well because of the opportunities Lebron creates for him. Taker Lebron away, and he doesn't get as many open looks as he does now. His lack of post skills would be much more glaring as well. Allen is simply there to spread the floor and hit open 3s, but hasn't had the impact they wanted, as he has disapeared at times this season. And w/out Lebron, the Heat become an even worse rebounding and definsive team (and they already rank last in rebounds). The Heat arn't playing as dominantly as the media wants fans to believe. If it wasn't for Lebron's amazing play, the Heat would be sinking right now w/ their lack of front court depth and lackluster play. A healthy Bulls team w/ D Rose would take the Heat w/out Lebron, as the Bulls showed in the Eastern Conferance 2 years ago. Each game came down to the final few minutes, and the Heat pulled out because Lebron was constantly guarding Rose and was the only one who could shut Derrick down. Take Lebron away, and Chicago takes that series. The Pacers are the top defensive team in the league currently, and will be getting a nice offensive boost from Danny Granger soon. If he and Paul George can coexist and Hibbert can play somewhat decent offense, the Pacers can give the Heatg a run for their money, even with Lebron. If it wasn't for Hibbert's disapearing act and Granger getting injured last year, who knows how that series would have went.
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Post by "Living Legend" Duttanized on Feb 19, 2013 1:12:16 GMT -5
We're not talking about moving multiple players off of a team. Simply removing James from the Heat and leaving everything the same, they're still A favorite for the Easter Conference. They would be. Wade, Bosh, Allen, etc. I mean, who is better on paper with the Celtics injured and Bulls. Nets? Knicks? Pacers? Sure any of those teams may beat them, or likely would, but the Heat would still be one of the favorites on paper. Obviously we don't know how they would play without Lebron. Can't count Celtics or Bulls as injured in this case. Bulls: -Marco Bellineli -Carlos Boozer -Jimmy Butler -Daequan Cook -Luol Deng -Taj Gibson -Richard Hamilton -Kirk Hinrich -Nazr Mohammed -Joakim Noah -Vladimir Radmanovic -Nate Robinson -Derrick Rose -Marquis TeagueCeltics: -Leandro Barbosa -Brandon Bass -Avery Bradley -Jason Collins -Kevin Garnett -Jeff Green -Courtney Lee -Fab Melo -Paul Pierce -Rajon Rondo -Jared Sullinger -Jason Terry -Chris WilcoxKnicks: -Carmelo Anthony -Ronnie Brewer -Marcus Camby -Tyson Chandler -Chris Copeland -Raymond Felton -Jason Kidd -Steve Novak -Pablo Prigioni -Iman Shumpert -J.R. Smith -Amar'e Stoudemire -Kurt Thomas -Rasheed Wallace -James WhiteNets:-Andray Blatche -Keith Bogans -MarShon Brooks -Reggie Evans -Kris Humphries -Joe Johnson -Brook Lopez -Tornike Shengelia -Jerry Stackhouse -Tyshawn Taylo -Mirza Teletovic -Gerald Wallace -C.J. Watson -Deron Williams Pacers: -D.J. Augustin -Paul George -Danny Granger -Gerald Green -Tyler Hansbrough -Ben Hansbrough -Roy Hibbert -George Hill -Orlando Johnson -Ian Mahimi -Jeff Pendergraph -Miles Plumlee -Lance Stephenson -David West -Sam Young Those are all teams that are better on paper if Lebron isn't on the Heat's roster.
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Post by Nick the Quick on Feb 19, 2013 13:47:03 GMT -5
Jordan never quit on his team to join another with two other top players to finally win a championship. When Lebron quit on Cleveland to join Miami, any right to compare him to Jordan was taken away.
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Post by sean™ on Feb 19, 2013 14:12:16 GMT -5
Jordon three-peted. Twice. In a span of 8 years.
That's about the end of that argument, in my opinion.
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Post by the franchise on Feb 19, 2013 14:55:06 GMT -5
I have no idea how anyone, right now, could say Lebron is better than Michael Jordan. Right now Lebron is better than Jordan. Jordan is 50 after all. Lebron is in him prime. ;D
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Post by "Living Legend" Duttanized on Feb 19, 2013 17:18:49 GMT -5
Jordan never quit on his team to join another with two other top players to finally win a championship. When Lebron quit on Cleveland to join Miami, any right to compare him to Jordan was taken away. Too be fair, Clevelands only real attempt to bring a superstar to play with Lebron was Shaq, so I don't really know if that argument is valid.
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Post by Jean-Ralphio on Feb 19, 2013 17:30:29 GMT -5
I have no idea how anyone, right now, could say Lebron is better than Michael Jordan. Right now Lebron is better than Jordan. Jordan is 50 after all. Lebron is in him prime. ;D I honestly love those comments, Bill Russell does that all the time. Both in their primes, and you wanna compare careers, IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE. Michael >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bill Russell/Wilt/Larry/Magic then you got another group Malone/Duncan/Kobe/Shaq/Oscar then you can put Lebron in there, he isnt in the first group or with MJ. Yet
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Feb 19, 2013 17:42:56 GMT -5
Michael Jordan did Space Jam. He wins.
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Nathan from Aus
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Post by Nathan from Aus on Feb 19, 2013 17:47:21 GMT -5
I'm Heat guy myself, and no way LeBron is as good as MJ. MJ is the G.O.A.T I think.
Michael Jordan Wilt Chamberlain Magic Johnson Larry Bird Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Kobe Bryant Karl Malone Jerry West Bill Russell
Just some names that I think are better than LeBron. But, his career isn't over and LeBron can still achieve great things.
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MizTV
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Post by MizTV on Feb 19, 2013 19:30:57 GMT -5
Add a poll to this
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2013 19:45:12 GMT -5
Lol majority doesnt always rule though. I will though
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K Dot
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Post by K Dot on Feb 19, 2013 20:01:33 GMT -5
I would just like to see LeBron down the road when he's too old to drive to the paint with such force as he does right now. We all know he's not even close to being a pure shooter like MJ or even Kobe for that matter. IMO LeBron's game is going to change a lot when he won't be able to dominate using his size, whereas Kobe right now at age 34 is playing great ball because he can lean on his jumpshot more.
Not to knock LeBron's game by any means. He does make big shots but I would take MJ or Kobe over Lebron if it was a game of jumpshots.
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Fleet Foxes
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Post by Fleet Foxes on Feb 19, 2013 20:07:23 GMT -5
LeBron had the potential to become better than Jordan until he joined the Heat
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Nathan from Aus
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Post by Nathan from Aus on Feb 19, 2013 20:11:28 GMT -5
I would just like to see LeBron down the road when he's too old to drive to the paint with such force as he does right now. We all know he's not even close to being a pure shooter like MJ or even Kobe for that matter. IMO LeBron's game is going to change a lot when he won't be able to dominate using his size, whereas Kobe right now at age 34 is playing great ball because he can lean on his jumpshot more. Not to knock LeBron's game by any means. He does make big shots but I would take MJ or Kobe over Lebron if it was a game of jumpshots. Kobe also has a sweet low-post game.
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Post by deskjet on Feb 19, 2013 20:17:31 GMT -5
Jordan
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Post by Happy Pizza on Feb 19, 2013 20:43:52 GMT -5
LeBron had the potential to become better than Jordan until he joined the Heat How, exactly? He would have approximately zero titles if he stayed in Cleveland. Zero. He would spend the next decade playing with a roster of D-leaguers and couldn't even lure Carlos Boozer to join him as a free agent.
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