jacktunney
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 3, 2012 22:50:33 GMT -5
Posts: 735
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Post by jacktunney on Apr 3, 2013 9:13:17 GMT -5
I think Ziggler is pretty good and is ine of the better guys in the ring today but there is no way he is even in the realm of being as over as Gunn was with the NAO. They were in the top 5 most over acts when wrestling was arguably at its most popular. Ziggler isn't probably even top 10 in arguably the biggest down period in wrestling history. Billy just saying "and if your not down with that..." got 50x the reaction than anything Ziggler has done. Hell it did just a few weeks ago even.
I don't really hold weight in billy being part if a tag team. if it was all Road Dog then why didn't he go on to an illustrious singles career? That's like saying animal was carried by hawk because he delivered the "what a rush" line.
title reigns from this age aren't even worth arguing about
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PenguinDeluxe
Main Eventer
20 Refs and Counting
Joined on: Dec 19, 2006 21:22:54 GMT -5
Posts: 4,932
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Post by PenguinDeluxe on Apr 3, 2013 9:41:59 GMT -5
I think Ziggler is pretty good and is ine of the better guys in the ring today but there is no way he is even in the realm of being as over as Gunn was with the NAO. They were in the top 5 most over acts when wrestling was arguably at its most popular. Ziggler isn't probably even top 10 in arguably the biggest down period in wrestling history. Billy just saying "and if your not down with that..." got 50x the reaction than anything Ziggler has done. Hell it did just a few weeks ago even. I don't really hold weight in billy being part if a tag team. if it was all Road Dog then why didn't he go on to an illustrious singles career? That's like saying animal was carried by hawk because he delivered the "what a rush" line. title reigns from this age aren't even worth arguing about It wasn't all Road Dogg I would say, but the combination of the two. Separately, they did not too much, but together they were quite popular. The whole being greater than the sum of the parts and what not.
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Apr 3, 2013 9:46:48 GMT -5
No shit. Put a guy in random feuds for long enough and no one can be bothered with him. Cena's feud was good, but this thing with Kane and D-Bryan? they were breaking up a few weeks ago now they're best buds all of a sudden. Ziggler needs proper compelling and longer storylines and feuds.
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WWE Common Terry
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 17, 2003 13:48:53 GMT -5
Posts: 3,803
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Post by WWE Common Terry on Apr 3, 2013 10:17:24 GMT -5
It's amusing to me that people are arguing that Billy Gun was so over. If he was so over, then why did they have to reinvent his character about 15 times?
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Apr 3, 2013 10:48:08 GMT -5
We really need to stop the Dolph Ziggler/Billy Gunn comparisons.
Just because their hair color and attires are similar and Dolph Ziggler uses the Fame-Asser does NOT mean anything about their characters is similar.
And also, being OVER and being GOOD are two different things.
Regardless of comparisons, opinions about character development and card positioning......Dolph Ziggler is one of the most talented WRESTLERS that WWE has right now.
I'd say CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Chris Jericho and Antonio Cesaro are the best 5 WRESTLERS that WWE has right now.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 2:27:14 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 10:54:43 GMT -5
It's amusing to me that people are arguing that Billy Gun was so over. If he was so over, then why did they have to reinvent his character about 15 times? By your logic The Undertaker wasn't over either.
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Post by Chip on Apr 3, 2013 10:54:53 GMT -5
I'd say CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, Chris Jericho and Antonio Cesaro are the best 5 WRESTLERS that WWE has right now. Loads and loads of truth right there
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Post by MacReady on Apr 3, 2013 11:19:57 GMT -5
LOL, this thread has degenerated so quickly. The Ziggler and Gunn comparisons really hold no weight; people are just ing stupid.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 2:27:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 12:37:48 GMT -5
Speaking of Ziggler whens he gonna cash in that briefcase?
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Post by glenanncam on Apr 3, 2013 17:39:20 GMT -5
How are we even comparing Gunn to Ziggler? Gunn isn't even in Ziggler's league. Gunn was a mid-carder who always played 2nd fiddle to bigger stars. Ziggler is a bonafied star who has all the skill and charisma to take him as far as WWE will let him. The only time Gunn got over in any real capacity was when he was gay. Can anyone even name one good Billy Gunn match off the top of their head? Ziggler might be one of the last truly great workers we ever see. Wow... The fail is strong with you I see. Seriously, I'd like to know what it is you think that Ziggler has over Billy. Because I can't think of anything. Billy was bigger, stronger, faster, had a better look, and a gimmick that was awesome (Ziggler's "showoff" gimmick is stale and terrible). Of course the New Age Outlaws didn't sell any merchandise either. Oh wait, they did.... They sold more than anyone else in the peak of wrestling's popularity (only behind Austin). Even as "The One" Billy was over as hell. The only thing Dolph Ziggler is good at is taking moves, nothing else. There's a reason why he's still jobbing. It's because he's not good at anything else. He isn't a believable star. They had to put Vickie with him just to get him any kind of crowd reaction. If you haven't seen a good Billy Gunn match, then you haven't seen a Billy Gunn match. It's that simple. This 7 minute match on SD is better than ANYTHING Dolph Ziggler has done in his entire career. Ziggler is better in the ring and better on the mic. Two key strengths right there. And Billy Gunn's gimmick was awesome? Which one? Being a cowboy? Being HTM's protege? Talking about his own ass constantly? "The One"? (whatever the hell that gimmick was supposed to be) No, all of those gimmicks sucked. And yeah, Billy was pretty over at one time. So was Eugene. And Hornswoggle. Are they amazing too? Hell no. The whole "if he's so good, why is he a jobber" theory would have some merit....if Ziggler wasn't holding the ing MITB briefcase which means he's likely the next world champion. Here's one, if Billy Gunn was so great, why did he never accomplish anything without a tag partner? Answer me that one. And that choice of match is laughable. Billy Gunn vs Eddie Guerrero was mediocre at best. Ziggler vs Bryan from RAW the past 2 weeks were better than that match and those were just Ziggler's last 2 live matches, nevermind the host of other great matches he's had since he debuted.
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
Posts: 4,293
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Apr 3, 2013 17:48:46 GMT -5
lol Epic phrase. Ziggler is better than Billy both in the ring and on the mic. Good to feel the love from Anvil Fan on Billy though! Im not the only Billy Gunn mark around here.
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Post by glenanncam on Apr 3, 2013 17:59:17 GMT -5
lol Epic phrase. Ziggler is better than Billy both in the ring and on the mic. Good to feel the love from Anvil Fan on Billy though! Im not the only Billy Gunn mark around here. Good for you not being biased. You're proof that just because you are a fan of someone doesn't mean you have to blindly follow them and think they are the greatest. For the record, I don't dislike Billy Gunn. I just think Dolph Ziggler is better in every meaningful way.
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Barney Stinson
Superstar
Joined on: Feb 5, 2011 18:42:24 GMT -5
Posts: 979
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Post by Barney Stinson on Apr 3, 2013 18:02:21 GMT -5
I think Ziggler is awesome in the ring. That being said, If I had every dollar on gods green earth, I still wouldn't buy Dolph Ziggler as a World Champion. There is just something missing about him. I see him as more of a utility player than the main attraction. And sometimes that is just as important.
As for him with the MITB Breifcase. I honestly think they had no plan going in and just randomly gave it to him because he was getting a reaction at the time. Look at who else was in that match. Other than Cody Rhodes, who else would have gotten it? Maybe Christian. I wouldn't be the least surprised if Ziggler cashed in and lost.
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 2:27:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 18:11:29 GMT -5
But the NAO's were actually over and sold merch. Ziggler's claim to fame is giving the IWC a collective boner and getting a tease push. The dude is a legitimate jobber. Jobbers don't generally get several mid-card title runs, win Money In The Bank, or go over John Cena in the main event of a PPV.
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Post by shaunduane on Apr 3, 2013 19:03:06 GMT -5
What the does Billy Gunn have to do with Dolph Ziggler?
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Post by Planktung on Apr 3, 2013 19:09:34 GMT -5
What the does Billy Gunn have to do with Dolph Ziggler? Nothing. Which is why the comparison between the two irk me.
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Post by el torro on Apr 3, 2013 19:30:12 GMT -5
How are we even comparing Gunn to Ziggler? Gunn isn't even in Ziggler's league. Gunn was a mid-carder who always played 2nd fiddle to bigger stars. Ziggler is a bonafied star who has all the skill and charisma to take him as far as WWE will let him. The only time Gunn got over in any real capacity was when he was gay. Can anyone even name one good Billy Gunn match off the top of their head? Ziggler might be one of the last truly great workers we ever see. Wow... The fail is strong with you I see. Seriously, I'd like to know what it is you think that Ziggler has over Billy. Because I can't think of anything. Billy was bigger, stronger, faster, had a better look, and a gimmick that was awesome (Ziggler's "showoff" gimmick is stale and terrible). Of course the New Age Outlaws didn't sell any merchandise either. Oh wait, they did.... They sold more than anyone else in the peak of wrestling's popularity (only behind Austin). Even as "The One" Billy was over as hell. The only thing Dolph Ziggler is good at is taking moves, nothing else. There's a reason why he's still jobbing. It's because he's not good at anything else. He isn't a believable star. They had to put Vickie with him just to get him any kind of crowd reaction. If you haven't seen a good Billy Gunn match, then you haven't seen a Billy Gunn match. It's that simple. This 7 minute match on SD is better than ANYTHING Dolph Ziggler has done in his entire career. Wow, and you talk about fail. Only things you're right about Gunn having over Ziggler is that he was a bigger and stronger. Both pretty much had/have the same look so you can't really compare that, and there is NO way Gunn was faster than Ziggler. Ziggler can work in the most fast paced match you've ever seen and he's showed that. Dolph Ziggler is only good at taking moves? What Ziggler matches have you been watching? He's a PHENOMENAL worker and as many people have said he is one the, if not the best worker WWE has right now. I'd really beg to differ about that last part. Ziggler vs. Punk vs. Sheamus vs. Orton vs. Bryan vs. Kofi vs. Rey vs. Jericho the guy beat JOHN CENA...in the MAIN EVENT of a PPV, he won MITB, and you still think that 7 minute match is better than any of all of what I listed? Talk about kissing ass...
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Deleted
Joined on: Sept 21, 2024 2:27:14 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 19:33:51 GMT -5
haven't liked ziggler much since he got paired with big e boring.
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JuiceWinslow
Main Eventer
Flair Country
Joined on: Sept 9, 2012 17:32:08 GMT -5
Posts: 2,706
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Post by JuiceWinslow on Apr 3, 2013 19:42:37 GMT -5
Why are they singling out Ziggler? Daniel Bryan was also in that match.
This might be the dumbest "report" I have read on here.
I watch RAW on HULU plus every week. It's a 1.5 hour show. They cut out everything besides the main storylines.
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