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Post by T R W on May 14, 2014 14:55:19 GMT -5
1. No evidence ever was found that connected what Donaghy was doing to the NBA. Honestly, he was a scumbag, who has been caught in so many lies it is insane. I don't think he was operating under orders from the NBA. 2. 75% of reality tv is planned, scripted, or planned improvisation. Sure some of it is real, but comparing reality tv to the NBA is very different. Everyone on the show knows they are on a tv show and what roles they are to play and what the outcome is going to be. Networks really don't even try to hide that these shows aren't really reality. 3. Rasheed Wallace was upset. He felt slighted. He also has a track record a mile long of saying and doing idiotic things. Before Lebron was travelling like a madman, it was Jordan, and Dr. J before him. The NBA refs let their superstars get away with murder. The NBA knows they do it. Does the NBA order them to do it? Possibly, but in reality I think it is more of an unspoken thing. I would love to see officiating be completely straight and unbiased for all players. Scoring would go down dramatically though. I don't think anyone wants that. So does the NBA allow their stars to get away with murder and do nothing because it because it sells tickets? Sure. But does the NBA tell their refs to make sure a series goes to 7 or that so and so wins? No, I don't believe that at all, and there is no actual evidence to show that they do. If the NBA was really rigged: The NBA would not have allowed the Pistons to win in 2004 They wouldn't have let the Mavs beat the Heat They wouldn't have let the Spurs beat the Cavs in a sweep The Knicks would have beaten the Rockets in 1994 and Spurs in 1999 They let their officials dominate and hurt the game, and they should step in and put a stop to it. But they don't because Superstars tell tickets and the fans don't complain and the money keeps rolling in. Nobody is going to stop the gravy train unless they have to. If the players and fans made a bigger deal out of it, then something would change. in response to your answers to my questions, those are fair assessments...I was just curious of your thoughts on the subjects **just brought up reality tv to gauge your level of observation in things that aren't what they claim to be the kings/lakers series is one that I have strong, strong feelings about, especially game 6, but everyone is entitled to think differently (LA had 27 free throws in the 4th, 40 for the game; many calls were just far too crazy to ignore IMO) the cavs/spurs IMO was something they just couldn't do much about IMO; mavs was a shocking twist no one saw coming & to make things more interesting because Heat were vilified against the underdog, wanting to make it seem like they really struggle & work for it the next year; and rockets/knicks spurs/knicks - I do think there are times when the nba doesn't care either way or wants to create a dynasty out of a smaller market I do think Detroit was what the NBA wanted, with how the games were called allowing for such hard hitting without foul calls. they wanted a flashback to old school ball -- lakers/celtics/pistons I do think the spurs tanked to land duncan also...I also think the lakers 2000 - 2003 were a powerful team, but there was not a chance that they weren't going to advance to the 2000 finals when down by 20 in the 4th quarter to portland I don't think there was any chance the heat were losing last year to the spurs even in game 6 with 10 seconds left & whatever the score was...I knew without a doubt the heat would win that series with a bit of assistance here & there even with the trophy ready to be given to the spurs I believe the nba refusing chris paul's trade to the lakers was so the nba could create greater excitement with la's other franchise.... I also believe all of the game 7's this year were for 2 reasons 1_ distract from sterling 2 new commish, make things as exciting as possible That Kings/Lakers game was a travesty, and some of the worst officiating I have ever seen. I still don't see any evidence that it was a result of the NBA ordering it to happen. All conspiracy theorists point to this game, and it's a glaring example. But to me it is a glaring example of awful officials and officials taking over a game to boost their own ego at the expense of the players and the fans. If the NBA was going to do what was in their best interest, they absolutely could have helped their new golden child win a few games against the Spurs rather than have him sent home humiliated in 4 games. I don't think that Stern suddenly decided that for 2 years, but only 2 years, we would suddenly have a league that was a lot more physical than it had been in a long time. Defense doesn't sell tickets. No way the league would have wanted a defensive powerhouse team to be in the finals 2 years in a row. The NBA would absolutely have wanted the Heat to thrash Mark Cuban and the Mavs. They hate Cuban and the Mavs aren't a top franchise and Dirk, while a star, doesn't sell tickets anywhere but Dallas. If rigged, they had plenty of chances to turn the tide in their favor that series. It was tightly contested. Why wouldn't they? If there was one team the NBA would absolutely make sure won a championship if the league was rigged, it would be the Knicks. It is the best and biggest market in the NBA and it would make them a ton of money if the Knicks were in and won a championship. Especially over Houston. Trust me, the NBA didn't want Houston to beat the Knicks. Or even the Magic. They would have much preferred the Suns (who they could have helped), or an up and coming superstar like Shaq win. Great as he was, Olajuwon wasn't a hot ticket. Heck, in the 90s the NBA went out of their way to make it more difficult for physical teams like the Knicks to stop Jordan. Jordan was a massive money maker, but they would have been just as if not more happy if the Knicks stole one of his 6 rings. The block of Chris Paul to the Lakers was awful, and maybe one of the dumbest things Stern has ever done. I hated the trade, and it was silly. But he did exactly the opposite of what would benefit the NBA the most financially. Keep a top star off one of the biggest teams in the NBA? WHy on earth would someone trying to rig the league for financial gain do that? Makes no sense. Nothing anyone does is going to make the Clippers more interesting than the Lakers. Even if they win 3 straight championships. You would have a greater case if they blocked him going to the Clippers and he ended up in LA. As far as the game 7s this year, the East is awful, and aside from the Heat, every team is pretty evenly matched. The West has a lot of very good teams resulting in much closer series than you would normally see due to the level of competition. Lots of good teams playing each other = close series. Lots of bad teams playing each other = close series.
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Post by Quanthor on May 14, 2014 15:13:46 GMT -5
You're a loony. I hate to throw out insulting words but you can't possibly believe that they have that much control. You can't be reasoned with at that point because no matter the victor, you're going to contend it was rigged. That's pure insanity. There's a bigger chance 9/11 was an inside job than the NBA having complete control over the outcome of games/series'. They're not a mafia. They wouldn't legally be able to do that and there's no possible way that they've been getting away with it for generations. There's no evidence and there's no incentive. What did the NBA gain by allegedly rigging all these scenarios?
They're guilty of star treatment. So is every other sport. It's more obvious in the NBA due to the nature of the game but it absolutely exists everywhere. I do think certain refs have "agendas" whether it's personal or self aggrandizing it does exist. That's something the NBA needs to address. Other than that sometimes the refs just do really sh*tty jobs. That's also the case with the other major sports. That's not exclusive to the NBA. The NFL and the MLB have been ridiculed for poor officiating too. There's a human element to sports. Players make mistakes and so do refs. That's the way of life.
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Post by bad guy™ on May 14, 2014 21:01:39 GMT -5
Damnit Brooklyn. I am going to be livid if the Heat 3peat. Ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2014 21:17:32 GMT -5
You're a loony. I hate to throw out insulting words but you can't possibly believe that they have that much control. You can't be reasoned with at that point because no matter the victor, you're going to contend it was rigged. That's pure insanity. There's a bigger chance 9/11 was an inside job than the NBA having complete control over the outcome of games/series'. They're not a mafia. They wouldn't legally be able to do that and there's no possible way that they've been getting away with it for generations. There's no evidence and there's no incentive. What did the NBA gain by allegedly rigging all these scenarios? They're guilty of star treatment. So is every other sport. It's more obvious in the NBA due to the nature of the game but it absolutely exists everywhere. I do think certain refs have "agendas" whether it's personal or self aggrandizing it does exist. That's something the NBA needs to address. Other than that sometimes the refs just do really sh*tty jobs. That's also the case with the other major sports. That's not exclusive to the NBA. The NFL and the MLB have been ridiculed for poor officiating too. There's a human element to sports. Players make mistakes and so do refs. That's the way of life. I never said it was a popular opinion & simply said it's how I feel after watching a whole lot of basketball. You can call me whatever you'd like. I never said it was 100% of the time rigged or always for a specific victor, but to make series longer & more compelling. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. They're not a mafia no - they're a business organization attempting to make the most profit possible. That is the incentive. You're right, there's no true evidence. The ref that gambled on games doesn't have enough cred for his statement to be trusted when he said 'the league made it known that it'd be in the best interest for a playoff series to go to a 7th game.' I just happen to believe the guy - I also happen to believe that any game he was ever a part of loses all credibility for being honest winners & losers. Allowing the refs to have such subjectivity in calling fouls/following rules leaves a lot of questions for me & maybe it does just end there...but I'm not talking about bad officiating which happens - I accept. I'm not closed minded, I accept others' views & love the discussion - so I'd like to think I can be reasoned with. The preferential treatment for stars (even on my fav team) is acknowledged by most, I just happen to believe that it's due to the ability for those stars to create more money for the league.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2014 21:24:28 GMT -5
in response to your answers to my questions, those are fair assessments...I was just curious of your thoughts on the subjects **just brought up reality tv to gauge your level of observation in things that aren't what they claim to be the kings/lakers series is one that I have strong, strong feelings about, especially game 6, but everyone is entitled to think differently (LA had 27 free throws in the 4th, 40 for the game; many calls were just far too crazy to ignore IMO) the cavs/spurs IMO was something they just couldn't do much about IMO; mavs was a shocking twist no one saw coming & to make things more interesting because Heat were vilified against the underdog, wanting to make it seem like they really struggle & work for it the next year; and rockets/knicks spurs/knicks - I do think there are times when the nba doesn't care either way or wants to create a dynasty out of a smaller market I do think Detroit was what the NBA wanted, with how the games were called allowing for such hard hitting without foul calls. they wanted a flashback to old school ball -- lakers/celtics/pistons I do think the spurs tanked to land duncan also...I also think the lakers 2000 - 2003 were a powerful team, but there was not a chance that they weren't going to advance to the 2000 finals when down by 20 in the 4th quarter to portland I don't think there was any chance the heat were losing last year to the spurs even in game 6 with 10 seconds left & whatever the score was...I knew without a doubt the heat would win that series with a bit of assistance here & there even with the trophy ready to be given to the spurs I believe the nba refusing chris paul's trade to the lakers was so the nba could create greater excitement with la's other franchise.... I also believe all of the game 7's this year were for 2 reasons 1_ distract from sterling 2 new commish, make things as exciting as possible That Kings/Lakers game was a travesty, and some of the worst officiating I have ever seen. I still don't see any evidence that it was a result of the NBA ordering it to happen. All conspiracy theorists point to this game, and it's a glaring example. But to me it is a glaring example of awful officials and officials taking over a game to boost their own ego at the expense of the players and the fans. If the NBA was going to do what was in their best interest, they absolutely could have helped their new golden child win a few games against the Spurs rather than have him sent home humiliated in 4 games. I don't think that Stern suddenly decided that for 2 years, but only 2 years, we would suddenly have a league that was a lot more physical than it had been in a long time. Defense doesn't sell tickets. No way the league would have wanted a defensive powerhouse team to be in the finals 2 years in a row. The NBA would absolutely have wanted the Heat to thrash Mark Cuban and the Mavs. They hate Cuban and the Mavs aren't a top franchise and Dirk, while a star, doesn't sell tickets anywhere but Dallas. If rigged, they had plenty of chances to turn the tide in their favor that series. It was tightly contested. Why wouldn't they? If there was one team the NBA would absolutely make sure won a championship if the league was rigged, it would be the Knicks. It is the best and biggest market in the NBA and it would make them a ton of money if the Knicks were in and won a championship. Especially over Houston. Trust me, the NBA didn't want Houston to beat the Knicks. Or even the Magic. They would have much preferred the Suns (who they could have helped), or an up and coming superstar like Shaq win. Great as he was, Olajuwon wasn't a hot ticket. Heck, in the 90s the NBA went out of their way to make it more difficult for physical teams like the Knicks to stop Jordan. Jordan was a massive money maker, but they would have been just as if not more happy if the Knicks stole one of his 6 rings. The block of Chris Paul to the Lakers was awful, and maybe one of the dumbest things Stern has ever done. I hated the trade, and it was silly. But he did exactly the opposite of what would benefit the NBA the most financially. Keep a top star off one of the biggest teams in the NBA? WHy on earth would someone trying to rig the league for financial gain do that? Makes no sense. Nothing anyone does is going to make the Clippers more interesting than the Lakers. Even if they win 3 straight championships. You would have a greater case if they blocked him going to the Clippers and he ended up in LA. As far as the game 7s this year, the East is awful, and aside from the Heat, every team is pretty evenly matched. The West has a lot of very good teams resulting in much closer series than you would normally see due to the level of competition. Lots of good teams playing each other = close series. Lots of bad teams playing each other = close series. I respect your opinion. Apparently I'm just a loony for thinking this, but it's just how I feel.
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Post by Quanthor on May 14, 2014 23:43:17 GMT -5
I respect your opinion. Apparently I'm just a loony for thinking this, but it's just how I feel. I apologize for the "loony" bit, but a lot of what you said just isn't logical. Just like the ending to the Clippers/Thunder game. That cannot be scripted. They can play that final 45 seconds again 100 times over and you wont see the same comedy of errors that lead to that finish. Refs can't do that. They're not wizards. They can't make players not turn the ball over. They can't make players make shots or miss shots. The only area of the game the refs have an impact on is foul calls which is the hardest part to officiate. They're not going to get that part right 100% of the time which the NBA fully admits. I think they say they only get it right 80% of the time which is probably true. The bad ones(especially late) just stand out more. It's impossible to always get it right. There's probably never been a game played in the history of the sport where the refs got it 100% right. They can't. It's too fast. The game 7 thing I think also lacks historical perspective. Does the NBA benefit? Of course! Does the MLB? Duh. More games = more money, but take a look at how many Finals have actually ever reached 7. Only 4 times in the last 20 years. 6 in the last 30. Only 20% reach 7 games. Not a single Chicago Bulls series(despite most being awesome) ever went 7. This year was just crazy, the first round at least. I don't remember seeing any screw jobs that lead to that either. Not to mention the second round has been a dud.
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2014 0:06:23 GMT -5
I respect your opinion. Apparently I'm just a loony for thinking this, but it's just how I feel. I apologize for the "loony" bit, but a lot of what you said just isn't logical. Just like the ending to the Clippers/Thunder game. That cannot be scripted. They can play that final 45 seconds again 100 times over and you wont see the same comedy of errors that lead to that finish. Refs can't do that. They're not wizards. They can't make players not turn the ball over. They can't make players make shots or miss shots. The only area of the game the refs have an impact on is foul calls which is the hardest part to officiate. They're not going to get that part right 100% of the time which the NBA fully admits. I think they say they only get it right 80% of the time which is probably true. They bad ones(especially late) just stand out more. It's impossible to always get it right. There's probably never been a game played in the history of the sport where the refs got it 100% right. They can't. It's too fast. The game 7 thing I think also lacks historical perspective. Does the NBA benefit? Of course! Does the MLB? Duh. More games = more money, but take a look at how many Finals have actually ever reached 7. Only 4 times in the last 20 years. 6 in the last 30. Only 20% reach 7 games. Not a single Chicago Bulls series(despite most being awesome) ever went 7. This year was just crazy, the first round at least. I don't remember seeing any screw jobs that lead to that either. Not to mention the second round has been a dud. I appreciate that & I get that it isn't necessarily going to seem like a logical belief for someone that doesn't agree. I know they can't change shots being made, but I feel they decide to ignore fouls or call phantom calls at times to shift momentum. If shots go down, shots go down & they can't change that. There were a ton of errors by the Clippers at the end of the game, sure. But I feel like they put teams in a position to win/lose. I don't think the Clippers came back in the previous game from their huge deficit without assistance in momentum either. It's just simply how I happen to view things.
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Post by bad guy™ on May 15, 2014 10:45:32 GMT -5
Ok, potentially stupid question. Does anyone know the name of the song that ESPN has been using for their round two game commercials this year? It is pretty much a harmonica, but I know there is more to it than that.
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Post by johnnyb on May 15, 2014 11:56:43 GMT -5
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Post by Quanthor on May 15, 2014 14:57:07 GMT -5
I'm pretty proud of my Trail-Blazers this year. They were projected to be a .500 ball fringe playoff team at the start of the year and they end up finishing 5th with a first round victory(first in 14 years). Nobody predicted that kind of success. Sustaining that success and taking the next big step is going to be their biggest challenge. The Spurs put that into perspective. Hopefully more good times are ahead!
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Post by T R W on May 15, 2014 15:00:19 GMT -5
Getting past the second round is really tough. A lot of good teams don't. Hell, the Hawks have NEVER ONCE done it. And I am not sure they ever will.
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Post by "Living Legend" Duttanized on May 16, 2014 0:59:10 GMT -5
Very nice close-out by OKC tonight.
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Jamal
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Post by Jamal on May 16, 2014 10:10:45 GMT -5
Ok, potentially stupid question. Does anyone know the name of the song that ESPN has been using for their round two game commercials this year? It is pretty much a harmonica, but I know there is more to it than that. Timber?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2014 10:46:09 GMT -5
Cage winning the lottery has me suspicious, 1.7% chance and they win. Seems like it might have been rigged.
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Post by bad guy™ on May 21, 2014 11:23:00 GMT -5
What the hell is it with this thread and conspiracy theories? Jeez it is like the Illuminati up in here.
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Post by Quanthor on May 21, 2014 12:05:24 GMT -5
I hear Adam Silver's, wife's, father's, second cousin's adopted child once lived in Cleveland. There might be something to this "rigging" thing after all.
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Post by bad guy™ on May 21, 2014 12:25:51 GMT -5
I hear Adam Silver's, wife's, father's, second cousin's adopted child once lived in Cleveland. There might be something to this "rigging" thing after all. Love you.
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Nick
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Post by Nick on May 21, 2014 14:19:30 GMT -5
Cavs first pick with a 1.7% chance?!?! I'm not one to believe in conspiracy and rigged theories but this was definitely rigged.
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Post by T R W on May 21, 2014 14:51:10 GMT -5
Yeah the NBA rigged the draft to give the NBA Juggernaut Cleveland an unfair advantage to help put money in their pockets because Cleveland is such a market powerhouse. Totally.
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Post by Justin on May 21, 2014 15:12:43 GMT -5
Yeah the NBA rigged the draft to give the NBA Juggernaut Cleveland an unfair advantage to help put money in their pockets because Cleveland is such a market powerhouse. Totally. Or they did it to help Lebron for when he returns there. Give him a team of first overall picks
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