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Post by Hammersmith Hardman on Nov 1, 2013 14:30:16 GMT -5
Or (quite rightly) they just think he's been better. No conspiracy. This. Or everyone is biased against him because he is an ex Manchester United player and was the player who more-or-less ended England's world cup hopes in 2006 with the wink. When people say their reason why they dislike him, they are the two reasons.
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Post by T on Nov 1, 2013 14:31:53 GMT -5
Same. If I had to have one in my team I'd want Ronaldo with Messi's attitude.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Nov 1, 2013 14:34:50 GMT -5
Or (quite rightly) they just think he's been better. No conspiracy. This. Or everyone is biased against him because he is an ex Manchester United player and was the player who more-or-less ended England's world cup hopes in 2006 with the wink. When people say their reason why they dislike him, they are the two reasons. Yeah but you'd also have to say he's quite arrogant. That can rub people the wrong way.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 1, 2013 14:36:12 GMT -5
This. Or everyone is biased against him because he is an ex Manchester United player and was the player who more-or-less ended England's world cup hopes in 2006 with the wink. When people say their reason why they dislike him, they are the two reasons. Yeah but you'd also have to say he's quite arrogant. That can rub people the wrong way. I think you can say that about any footballer, Messi included. When you're as good as those two you can basically do whatever the you want tbh.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Nov 1, 2013 14:38:26 GMT -5
Yeah but you'd also have to say he's quite arrogant. That can rub people the wrong way. I think you can say that about any footballer, Messi included. When you're as good as those two you can basically do whatever the you want tbh. True. I really like Ronaldo, in fact I probably like him more than Messi. I just think people should seperate personal feelings from facts. On a factual basis, Messi is probably the better player.
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Post by Hammersmith Hardman on Nov 1, 2013 14:43:07 GMT -5
This. Or everyone is biased against him because he is an ex Manchester United player and was the player who more-or-less ended England's world cup hopes in 2006 with the wink. When people say their reason why they dislike him, they are the two reasons. Yeah but you'd also have to say he's quite arrogant. That can rub people the wrong way. Could say the same thing about Ibrahimovic then. Who infact seems a whole lot more arrogant than Ronaldo has ever been, yet everyone seems to lap up his praises (not denying they shouldn't). People don't realise Messi is as arrogant as they come himself.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 1, 2013 14:47:45 GMT -5
I think you can say that about any footballer, Messi included. When you're as good as those two you can basically do whatever the you want tbh. True. I really like Ronaldo, in fact I probably like him more than Messi. I just think people should seperate personal feelings from facts. On a factual basis, Messi is probably the better player. I don't think you can judge football in facts though. So much of it depends on circumstance. Lets say in 2014 Messi gets 100 goals and Ronaldo gets 90 - that would make many say Messi is better. But what if I told you that 20 of Messi's were penalties to Ronaldo's 5? That 80 of Messi's were in the box compared to 40 of Ronaldo's? That only 30 of Messi's actually won points compared to 50 of Ronaldo's? And that at least of 10 of Ronaldo's were world class individual goals but that none of Messi's were? Stats can be misleading. You have to judge on opinion and that's what makes debating about football so interesting.
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Y2J13
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Post by Y2J13 on Nov 1, 2013 14:51:39 GMT -5
True. I really like Ronaldo, in fact I probably like him more than Messi. I just think people should seperate personal feelings from facts. On a factual basis, Messi is probably the better player. I don't think you can judge football in facts though. So much of it depends on circumstance. Lets say in 2014 Messi gets 100 goals and Ronaldo gets 90 - that would make many say Messi is better. But what if I told you that 20 of Messi's were penalties to Ronaldo's 5? That 80 of Messi's were in the box compared to 40 of Ronaldo's? That only 30 of Messi's actually won points compared to 50 of Ronaldo's? And that at least of 10 of Ronaldo's were world class individual goals but that none of Messi's were? Stats can be misleading. You have to judge on opinion and that's what makes debating about football so interesting. Fair point. I don't see how anyone can say one is clearly better than the other though. It's pretty damn tight no matter who you like better.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 1, 2013 14:52:54 GMT -5
I don't think you can judge football in facts though. So much of it depends on circumstance. Lets say in 2014 Messi gets 100 goals and Ronaldo gets 90 - that would make many say Messi is better. But what if I told you that 20 of Messi's were penalties to Ronaldo's 5? That 80 of Messi's were in the box compared to 40 of Ronaldo's? That only 30 of Messi's actually won points compared to 50 of Ronaldo's? And that at least of 10 of Ronaldo's were world class individual goals but that none of Messi's were? Stats can be misleading. You have to judge on opinion and that's what makes debating about football so interesting. Fair point. I don't see how anyone can say one is clearly better than the other though. It's pretty damn tight no matter who you like better. I agree. I can accept people saying one is better than the other if they admit that the other isn't far off. Both will go down as legends. What really pisses me off is when people argue that Messi is way above Ronaldo.
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Post by McBlake on Nov 2, 2013 12:30:40 GMT -5
True. I really like Ronaldo, in fact I probably like him more than Messi. I just think people should seperate personal feelings from facts. On a factual basis, Messi is probably the better player. I don't think you can judge football in facts though. So much of it depends on circumstance. Lets say in 2014 Messi gets 100 goals and Ronaldo gets 90 - that would make many say Messi is better. But what if I told you that 20 of Messi's were penalties to Ronaldo's 5? That 80 of Messi's were in the box compared to 40 of Ronaldo's? That only 30 of Messi's actually won points compared to 50 of Ronaldo's? And that at least of 10 of Ronaldo's were world class individual goals but that none of Messi's were? Stats can be misleading. You have to judge on opinion and that's what makes debating about football so interesting. We have a winner! It's so easy to manipulate stats in your favour in an argument. Besides, this isn't the golden boot, it's the Ballon d'Or. The only thing you can really judge the Ballon d'Or on is opinion. Not stats, goals, penalties, age... strategic voting because they're bored of someone winning it; and for me Ronaldo clearly has had a better 2013 than Messi and no one will change my opinion on that. If anyone as much as suggests sweet, innocent little Messi isn't the second coming these days, you instantly have a vendetta against him. I don't think a single person will argue that he isn't one of the best players ever, but not this past year for me.
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Post by Dan on Nov 4, 2013 8:50:31 GMT -5
True. I really like Ronaldo, in fact I probably like him more than Messi. I just think people should seperate personal feelings from facts. On a factual basis, Messi is probably the better player. I don't think you can judge football in facts though. So much of it depends on circumstance. Lets say in 2014 Messi gets 100 goals and Ronaldo gets 90 - that would make many say Messi is better. But what if I told you that 20 of Messi's were penalties to Ronaldo's 5? That 80 of Messi's were in the box compared to 40 of Ronaldo's? That only 30 of Messi's actually won points compared to 50 of Ronaldo's? And that at least of 10 of Ronaldo's were world class individual goals but that none of Messi's were? Stats can be misleading. You have to judge on opinion and that's what makes debating about football so interesting. But the fact of the matter is, the Stats aren't misleading. The Goals Messi scores are unbelievable, so that argument about Stats not being true is invalid. I'm not sure how you can say Ronaldo is on the same level as Messi though. Yes Ronaldo's goal tally is extremely impressive. He's the definition of a modern day athlete, he's the full package. But Messi has done things that elevate him to be up there with Maradona. He has broken so many Records it's beyond belief, Ronaldo hasn't. He's won 3 European Cups. He's won 4 Balon d'ors. He's scored the highest amount of Goals in one Calender Year in history. He has the record for the most Goals in El Clasico History, scored against every La Liga Team back to back. Your entitled to have an opinion, but facts are facts, and what Ronaldo has achieved as a Player doesn't put him on Messi's level. Ronaldo for me, is up there with the Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho in his prime. You also say age isn't a factor. Clearly it is though if you are comparing two Players, since one has achieved so much more than the other with less time to do it in, and so much quicker. In terms of Individual qualities, Ronaldo isn't anywhere near as capable of playmaking as Messi is either, the amount of Assists he provides are ridiculous.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Nov 4, 2013 10:02:44 GMT -5
I don't think you can judge football in facts though. So much of it depends on circumstance. Lets say in 2014 Messi gets 100 goals and Ronaldo gets 90 - that would make many say Messi is better. But what if I told you that 20 of Messi's were penalties to Ronaldo's 5? That 80 of Messi's were in the box compared to 40 of Ronaldo's? That only 30 of Messi's actually won points compared to 50 of Ronaldo's? And that at least of 10 of Ronaldo's were world class individual goals but that none of Messi's were? Stats can be misleading. You have to judge on opinion and that's what makes debating about football so interesting. But the fact of the matter is, the Stats aren't misleading. The Goals Messi scores are unbelievable, so that argument about Stats not being true is invalid. I'm not sure how you can say Ronaldo is on the same level as Messi though. Yes Ronaldo's goal tally is extremely impressive. He's the definition of a modern day athlete, he's the full package. But Messi has done things that elevate him to be up there with Maradona. He has broken so many Records it's beyond belief, Ronaldo hasn't. He's won 3 European Cups. He's won 4 Balon d'ors. He's scored the highest amount of Goals in one Calender Year in history. He has the record for the most Goals in El Clasico History, scored against every La Liga Team back to back. Your entitled to have an opinion, but facts are facts, and what Ronaldo has achieved as a Player doesn't put him on Messi's level. Ronaldo for me, is up there with the Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho in his prime. You also say age isn't a factor. Clearly it is though if you are comparing two Players, since one has achieved so much more than the other with less time to do it in, and so much quicker. In terms of Individual qualities, Ronaldo isn't anywhere near as capable of playmaking as Messi is either, the amount of Assists he provides are ridiculous. If you read football only in stats then I feel sorry for you. You probably think Pedro is better than Ribery because he's won more CLs. Stats can be mitigated by 100 different things - Messi won more CLs but he was in a much better team, maybe Barca got some lucky decisions or one of a thousand other mitigating factors. It comes down to opinion.
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Post by McBlake on Nov 4, 2013 16:32:57 GMT -5
I don't think you can judge football in facts though. So much of it depends on circumstance. Lets say in 2014 Messi gets 100 goals and Ronaldo gets 90 - that would make many say Messi is better. But what if I told you that 20 of Messi's were penalties to Ronaldo's 5? That 80 of Messi's were in the box compared to 40 of Ronaldo's? That only 30 of Messi's actually won points compared to 50 of Ronaldo's? And that at least of 10 of Ronaldo's were world class individual goals but that none of Messi's were? Stats can be misleading. You have to judge on opinion and that's what makes debating about football so interesting. But the fact of the matter is, the Stats aren't misleading. The Goals Messi scores are unbelievable, so that argument about Stats not being true is invalid. I'm not sure how you can say Ronaldo is on the same level as Messi though. Yes Ronaldo's goal tally is extremely impressive. He's the definition of a modern day athlete, he's the full package. But Messi has done things that elevate him to be up there with Maradona. He has broken so many Records it's beyond belief, Ronaldo hasn't. He's won 3 European Cups. He's won 4 Balon d'ors. He's scored the highest amount of Goals in one Calender Year in history. He has the record for the most Goals in El Clasico History, scored against every La Liga Team back to back. Your entitled to have an opinion, but facts are facts, and what Ronaldo has achieved as a Player doesn't put him on Messi's level. Ronaldo for me, is up there with the Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho in his prime. You also say age isn't a factor. Clearly it is though if you are comparing two Players, since one has achieved so much more than the other with less time to do it in, and so much quicker. In terms of Individual qualities, Ronaldo isn't anywhere near as capable of playmaking as Messi is either, the amount of Assists he provides are ridiculous. So part of the reason why Messi should win the Ballon d'Or is because he already has 4 of them, or are we simply just having the age old Ronaldo vs. Messi debate as opposed to who should win the Ballon d'Or now lol?
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Post by McBlake on Dec 5, 2013 7:54:15 GMT -5
I'll kick crap up.
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Post by Hammersmith Hardman on Dec 5, 2013 8:08:25 GMT -5
Oh this sh*t.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Dec 5, 2013 8:12:08 GMT -5
Outrageous if true.
Also, there was only a top 3 last year, how did they leak a top 5? Sounds off to me.
Ronaldo still the favourite on Sky Bet. Messi ahead of Ribery now though, 5/4 from 6/1 earlier this week. I have £20 on Ronaldo at 13/2 then a free £20 bet on Ribery at evens, will be gutted if Messi wins it.
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Post by Brunt's Left Foot on Dec 5, 2013 8:33:09 GMT -5
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Top
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Post by Top on Dec 5, 2013 11:55:51 GMT -5
Well,its either Ribery or Ronaldo.They both had an amazing year and imo Ribery deserves the Ballon d'Or because he won EVERYTHING he could in 2013.
Messi is better overall than both of them but 2013 wasnt a good year for Messi.He had many injuries and didnt do sth special like in 2012 when he scored the most goals in one season.
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Post by Himmy! on Dec 5, 2013 17:33:16 GMT -5
Messi doesn't deserve it. End of.
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