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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 9, 2013 17:17:21 GMT -5
[a href="http:// "]link [/a][/quote] Honestly, I have no clue who the guy on the left is, but Mandela has been out of public office since 1999. Since then, he's had no political power. How you can hold him responsible for 24,000 murders a year since then is beyond me, but whatever.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 9, 2013 19:06:15 GMT -5
1. You know it's an accurate translation how? 2. You hold someone responsible their entire life for something they do when they're younger? I'll answer these questions as soon as you respond to the contradicting Bible verses. Until then, don't bother questioning me whenever I post something. What does that thread have to do with this thread? Why the conditions of you can easily answer his reply?
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Post by slappy on Dec 9, 2013 19:09:40 GMT -5
Honestly, I have no clue who the guy on the left is, but Mandela has been out of public office since 1999. Since then, he's had no political power. How you can hold him responsible for 24,000 murders a year since then is beyond me, but whatever. The man on the left is Hendrik Verwoerd. He created and implemented apartheid in South Africa. But I guess, according to the picture, he's an ok guy.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 9, 2013 19:33:44 GMT -5
I'll answer these questions as soon as you respond to the contradicting Bible verses. Until then, don't bother questioning me whenever I post something. What does that thread have to do with this thread? Why the conditions of you can easily answer his reply? He won't answer my questions, so why should I answer any of his?
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 9, 2013 20:06:30 GMT -5
What does that thread have to do with this thread? Why the conditions of you can easily answer his reply? He won't answer my questions, so why should I answer any of his? I'll give you the same answer I gave you in the other thread that you've apparently ignored. There are any number of Christian apologetics sites on the web. If you were really interested in answers you could go there. They know their Greek. They know their Hebrew. They know their tradition. Go check them out. But I'm sure you won't as I really don't think you're interested in other people's opinions.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 9, 2013 20:12:08 GMT -5
He won't answer my questions, so why should I answer any of his? I'll give you the same answer I gave you in the other thread that you've apparently ignored. There are any number of Christian apologetics sites on the web. If you were really interested in answers you could go there. They know their Greek. They know their Hebrew. They know their tradition. Go check them out. But I'm sure you won't as I really don't think you're interested in other people's opinions. You said any theist with half a brain could poke a million holes in the contradictions. So it should be really simple for you to do it, no? Not only that but I googled "Bible contradictions debunked" and found nothing.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 9, 2013 21:37:26 GMT -5
This is not the religion thread dude. Leave those issues in there.
Your point would be better made if you simply answered the question. If you believe it's a honest translation just say "yes, I am certain those were his words," and shut up your detractors right away.
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Post by Lord Ragnarok on Dec 9, 2013 22:24:18 GMT -5
This is not the religion thread dude. Leave those issues in there. Your point would be better made if you simply answered the question. If you believe it's a honest translation just say "yes, I am certain those were his words," and shut up your detractors right away. He can just look it up for himself.
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Post by Tim of thee on Dec 9, 2013 22:34:34 GMT -5
Do we even know if that was a correct translation? He asked first and I don't believe it was answered.
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Post by Hulkamaniac on Dec 10, 2013 6:43:37 GMT -5
Well, since Ragnarok refuses to answer I actually looked it up. Apparently it's a sort of possibly accurate translation. Languages don't always translate well and it's (they tell me) in the Zulu language. There are 11 languages in South Africa and I don't speak any of them. I'm told that it can be translated anything from "Kill white people" to "fight the oppressive powers" (which happened to be the white people). So it really depends on what your perspective is.
In either case I'm not sure that it really matters. It's well known that Mandela was a terrorist in his younger days. He reformed his ways and embraced peaceful resolutions instead of violent ones. I'd think we could all applaud that right?
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 10, 2013 7:16:38 GMT -5
Well, since Ragnarok refuses to answer I actually looked it up. Apparently it's a sort of possibly accurate translation. Languages don't always translate well and it's (they tell me) in the Zulu language. There are 11 languages in South Africa and I don't speak any of them. I'm told that it can be translated anything from "Kill white people" to "fight the oppressive powers" (which happened to be the white people). So it really depends on what your perspective is. In either case I'm not sure that it really matters. It's well known that Mandela was a terrorist in his younger days. He reformed his ways and embraced peaceful resolutions instead of violent ones. I'd think we could all applaud that right?I often compare Mandela to Malcolm X in the way they were both, in their own ways, separatist revolutionaries. However, they became voices for tolerance and reconciliation as they gained power and influence. I think that's truly admirable and ultimately defines their respective legacies.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 7:23:26 GMT -5
Well, since Ragnarok refuses to answer I actually looked it up. Apparently it's a sort of possibly accurate translation. Languages don't always translate well and it's (they tell me) in the Zulu language. There are 11 languages in South Africa and I don't speak any of them. I'm told that it can be translated anything from "Kill white people" to "fight the oppressive powers" (which happened to be the white people). So it really depends on what your perspective is. In either case I'm not sure that it really matters. It's well known that Mandela was a terrorist in his younger days. He reformed his ways and embraced peaceful resolutions instead of violent ones. I'd think we could all applaud that right? Not really. He was a ing terrorist. Reformed or not he was an awful, awful human being. He was responsible for the deaths of innocent people, and dozens if not hundreds of them. Some of which were children. It's like saying if Charles Manson would reform himself that he would be the greatest man to ever live. ing ridiculous.
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 10, 2013 7:28:03 GMT -5
Well, since Ragnarok refuses to answer I actually looked it up. Apparently it's a sort of possibly accurate translation. Languages don't always translate well and it's (they tell me) in the Zulu language. There are 11 languages in South Africa and I don't speak any of them. I'm told that it can be translated anything from "Kill white people" to "fight the oppressive powers" (which happened to be the white people). So it really depends on what your perspective is. In either case I'm not sure that it really matters. It's well known that Mandela was a terrorist in his younger days. He reformed his ways and embraced peaceful resolutions instead of violent ones. I'd think we could all applaud that right? Not really. He was a ing terrorist. Reformed or not he was an awful, awful human being. He was responsible for the deaths of innocent people. It's like saying if Charles Manson would reform himself that he was the greatest man to ever live. ing ridiculous. That's hyperbole.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 7:32:12 GMT -5
Not really. He was a ing terrorist. Reformed or not he was an awful, awful human being. He was responsible for the deaths of innocent people. It's like saying if Charles Manson would reform himself that he was the greatest man to ever live. ing ridiculous. That's hyperbole. Not really. They were both terrorists, both used race as a tool for destruction and both directly responsible for the loss of innocent peoples lives. The two are very comparable.
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Post by slappy on Dec 10, 2013 7:41:53 GMT -5
The terrorist group he founded in 1961 was without him for their entire history except the first year. After that he was in prison for conspiracy to overthrow the state. God forbid someone take down an oppressive government.
How many people did Mandela kill?
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Post by Emerald Enthusiast on Dec 10, 2013 7:59:04 GMT -5
Not really. They were both terrorists, both used race as a tool for destruction and both directly responsible for the loss of innocent peoples lives. The two are very comparable. Manson never had this kind of philosophy: Manson was never a tool for social change and ethnic understanding. I feel silly even having this conversation, so I won't continue it beyond this post. However, if you were to equate the two men in any college sociology, psychology, political science, or history class, you would be laughed off campus.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 8:05:02 GMT -5
Not really. They were both terrorists, both used race as a tool for destruction and both directly responsible for the loss of innocent peoples lives. The two are very comparable. Manson never had this kind of philosophy: Manson was never a tool for social change and ethnic understanding. I feel silly even having this conversation, so I won't continue it beyond this post. However, if you were to equate the two men in any college sociology, psychology, political science, or history class, you would be laughed off campus. Yeah, he certainly didn't judge people based on the colour of their skin.
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Post by slappy on Dec 10, 2013 8:17:45 GMT -5
We don't know if that's the correct translation.
Wouldn't you want to hurt those who are oppressing you? Wouldn't you want to make drastic changes to make your life and everyone else's better?
Don't want to go along with them holding you down just so at the end of the day you can say you didn't start any trouble.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 9:09:42 GMT -5
We don't know if that's the correct translation. Wouldn't you want to hurt those who are oppressing you? Wouldn't you want to make drastic changes to make your life and everyone else's better? Don't want to go along with them holding you down just so at the end of the day you can say you didn't start any trouble. He's singling out a race, not just the people who are oppressing him. He used violence and terrorism as methods to achieve his goals. Now MLK, he's a man worthy of admiration, he was the antithesis of Mandella. What he achieved through non-violent actions was incredible. I can't believe that people are actually defending and admiring a known terrorist. I don't give a crap of the intent behind his actions, they were what they were. Hitler and Manson both had good intentions in the eyes of some people, and they were scum of the earth too.
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Post by slappy on Dec 10, 2013 9:18:13 GMT -5
We don't know if that's the correct translation. Wouldn't you want to hurt those who are oppressing you? Wouldn't you want to make drastic changes to make your life and everyone else's better? Don't want to go along with them holding you down just so at the end of the day you can say you didn't start any trouble. He's singling out a race, not just the people who are oppressing him. He used violence and terrorism as methods to achieve his goals. Now MLK, he's a man worthy of admiration, he was the antithesis of Mandella. What he achieved through non-violent actions was incredible. I can't believe that people are actually defending and admiring a known terrorist. I don't give a crap of the intent behind his actions, they were what they were. Hitler and Manson both had good intentions in the eyes of some people, and they were scum of the earth too. I'm not saying Mandela is the greatest man that ever lived but he's certainly not as terrible as some of you are making him out to be. Are you saying you'd rather take the abuse and let your oppressors do what they want just so you can say you did not harm them? You can do non-violent actions but sometimes that isn't enough.
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