Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2013 15:44:09 GMT -5
Well I think it's awfully short-sighted for everyone to say that Mattel should automatically keep the contract - that WWE shouldn't even explore the possibility that a different company could provide action figures that look even better, cost even less, and distributed more evenly or in better numbers... or with a shorter lead-time. I recognize that this is the "Mattel Board" but every company should weigh all options before signing any long-term contract, and Mattel is by no means perfect.... 9-12 months lead-time whenever a wrestler gets a tattoo or wears a new shirt? A year is a LONG time for an action figure to be created.... 1 Elite line (6 figures) every two months? No legends-dedicated line? Limited accessories due to budgetary reasons? Do we really believe that this is all Mattel can "afford" to produce? Is this the BEST Mattel can do? Is this the BEST WWE can do? Maybe WWE should put their feet to the fire a little bit before signing them again.... there's always room for improvement.... Agreed 100% and the biggest toy company in the world shoupd be able to figure out a way to bring legends line back.
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Post by TheChamp420 on Dec 11, 2013 16:06:10 GMT -5
Bill was talking about 2015 at RSF, so I'm assuming they've renewed
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2013 16:06:36 GMT -5
this is my thoughts as well. I LOVE the detail of the Mattel figs, but if another company is wanting to try and maybe give those legends their rightful due, I'd be up for it. I mean, how great is a legends line or flashbacks if we are missing MANY Major wrestlers from those eras. Jakks may not have had the detailed figs Mattel does, but being a legends only collector and could care less about current figs, Jakks was a dream come true line. I love gettin multi versions of Bret, Warrior, Savage, but not at the expense of never gettin 1 earthqauke, sid, neidhart, beefcake, gonzales, crush, jyd, studd, razor, etc etc etc! ONCE AGAIN, we all know thw reasons why legends originally failed and I just cant believe the only way a GIANT toy company like mattel cant figure out a new way to release more legends other than a few in a current wrestling fig line. my walmart has a bunch of elite 22/23/24, and ONE Flashback on the shelves, a JBL. come on Mattel, take another chance. legends/flashbacks are hot again, and people are buying figs again. lets try again. Flashback only line: 4 figs per set, 6 sets per year. every 2 months we get a whole 4 flashbacks. but itd be their own line and 4 to buy every 2 months, which makes feel like your actually collecting something. This is really a great Idea...I will one up you and have the 4 figures have a Baf Piece to build a manager or Diva that would go along with the set. Thet way you knock out 2 birds with one stone.... if managers and Divas are Risky do it that way, and drive up sales for that wave. hec yeah, even better! Brother Love BAF dammit!
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becks007
Main Eventer
BELT MARK
Joined on: Aug 14, 2011 9:11:57 GMT -5
Posts: 2,185
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Post by becks007 on Dec 15, 2013 7:13:04 GMT -5
Back when it was announced that Mattel would be doing WWE figures, it was mentioned that their contract with the WWE would be till 2014. And judging by the success of the figures and the positive response, I'm confident their contract will be extended for a few more years.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Dec 15, 2013 8:14:35 GMT -5
Well I think it's awfully short-sighted for everyone to say that Mattel should automatically keep the contract - that WWE shouldn't even explore the possibility that a different company could provide action figures that look even better, cost even less, and distributed more evenly or in better numbers... or with a shorter lead-time. WWE goes with the winner. No toy company can offer them the same financial rewards, brand prestige and quality merchandise that Mattel can -- if other companies could, those companies would be making the dolls right now. Can you list these other companies that you think have the magic wand to make better-looking, cheaper, faster and more easily available WWE dolls? No idea what point you think you're making there. Elite figures are expensive. Wrestling fans, on the whole, are not doctors and movie stars. There is no sense in putting out fifty different $18 figures a month, because it prices the fanbase out of the hobby. Elites are released at exactly the right pace. And if the budget was increased for them, the price would be too. Again, that would be pricing the fanbase out of the hobby. Mattel is not a charity for adult wrestling fans. Mattel is a company that sells toys. And it's by far the best company that's ever sold wrestling toys. come on Mattel, take another chance. legends/flashbacks are hot again, and people are buying figs again. lets try again. Try again how? Retailers don't want them, and everyone cried about the prices of them as online exclusives. Mattel can't wave a magic wand to get a Legends line into stores -- and if they did and it failed, it'd probably take the Elite line (or at least the Flashback segment) with it. The way they put out Flashbacks now is the way that works. It's not broke, so there's no need for them to mess with it.
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Post by Flair Forever on Dec 15, 2013 8:41:05 GMT -5
Well I think it's awfully short-sighted for everyone to say that Mattel should automatically keep the contract - that WWE shouldn't even explore the possibility that a different company could provide action figures that look even better, cost even less, and distributed more evenly or in better numbers... or with a shorter lead-time. WWE goes with the winner. No toy company can offer them the same financial rewards, brand prestige and quality merchandise that Mattel can -- if other companies could, those companies would be making the dolls right now. Can you list these other companies that you think have the magic wand to make better-looking, cheaper, faster and more easily available WWE dolls? No idea what point you think you're making there. Elite figures are expensive. Wrestling fans, on the whole, are not doctors and movie stars. There is no sense in putting out fifty different $18 figures a month, because it prices the fanbase out of the hobby. Elites are released at exactly the right pace. And if the budget was increased for them, the price would be too. Again, that would be pricing the fanbase out of the hobby. Mattel is not a charity for adult wrestling fans. Mattel is a company that sells toys. And it's by far the best company that's ever sold wrestling toys. come on Mattel, take another chance. legends/flashbacks are hot again, and people are buying figs again. lets try again. Try again how? Retailers don't want them, and everyone cried about the prices of them as online exclusives. Mattel can't wave a magic wand to get a Legends line into stores -- and if they did and it failed, it'd probably take the Elite line (or at least the Flashback segment) with it. The way they put out Flashbacks now is the way that works. It's not broke, so there's no need for them to mess with it. The point is that when contracting services - as WWE does with Mattel, with the licensing of production of action figures - the company doing the contracting should always ask for more, and just saying that everything that Mattel is doing is perfect - there is no room for any improvement, and WWE should just automatically sign them again, no questions asked - is not "best for business"..... it's a fan-boy mentality. JAKKS was much more prolific when it came to Legends, rings/accessories, and variety - I just wonder if WWE pressured Mattel a little bit, before re-signing, if Mattel could do a little better.... How many times did you go into retail this past year and find the wrestling shelves bare/empty? I found them that way quite frequently....
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Post by marino13 on Dec 15, 2013 9:15:53 GMT -5
I'd be happy with Jakks again. If that happens....
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Dec 15, 2013 9:26:42 GMT -5
JAKKS was much more prolific when it came to Legends, rings/accessories, and variety - Just go back and buy old Jakks figures on eBay if you like them that much. I'll stick with the higher-quality stuff. "Excuse us, biggest toy company in the world, jump through these hoops for us and put out more failing Legends figures because some guy on the Internet says to!" Not only does WWE not have the leverage to do that, they also have no reason to -- they are making more money from dolls now than they were prior. From a business perspective, nobody has any reason to keep pushing a Legends line. It's only hardcore collectors that pretend there is business sense in one. In reality, that line failed twice. Once at retail, and once as Internet-only after retail didn't want it anymore. Pretending that WWE should try pressuring Mattel into failing with it yet again does nothing but upset yourself, because the reality is so different from the fantasy world where Legends figures = success. Never. I've been walking into scenes like this all year:
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Dec 15, 2013 9:28:39 GMT -5
I'd be happy with Jakks again. If that happens.... I dunno man, a Daniel Bryan head on a Rob Terry body (aka a Jakks Daniel Bryan body) would be pretty funny.
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Post by marino13 on Dec 15, 2013 9:34:29 GMT -5
If that happens.... I dunno man, a Daniel Bryan head on a Rob Terry body (aka a Jakks Daniel Bryan body) would be pretty funny. Then with the tall kickers he'd be taller than Kane!! Let's not forget Big E would also get Mark Henry's body.
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Post by Flair Forever on Dec 15, 2013 10:10:53 GMT -5
Never. I've been walking into scenes like this all year: [/quote] I thought you were being serious - but now I think you're just messing around. I've read plenty of posts on here about people going into stores and finding minimal amount of Mattel products on the shelf - and I can say that I've had the same experience many times myself, at Wal Mart, Target, and K Mart. Only in the last few weeks (Christmas season) have the shelves started to look like that picture anywhere - and I have a K Mart that STILL doesn't have Elites - and hasn't stocked any since E18..... And what about all the "kids-geared" stuff? The Flex Force was a failure that wound up at Big Lots.... so Mattel has now brought us "Super Strikers." Which are exactly the same. And these Power Slammers are filling the shelves, and they don't seem to be selling either.... and Rumblers are way too expensive for kids OR collectors - last year I bought them when they all went on clearance. I expect Power Slammers to be on clearance by February. I like the Mattel line - but I think it's foolish to ignore the problems and just say "everything's fine" and not ask for any changes.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Dec 15, 2013 10:31:56 GMT -5
I thought you were being serious - but now I think you're just messing around. I've read plenty of posts on here about people going into stores and finding minimal amount of Mattel products on the shelf - and I can say that I've had the same experience many times myself, at Wal Mart, Target, and K Mart. Only in the last few weeks (Christmas season) have the shelves started to look like that picture anywhere - and I have a K Mart that STILL doesn't have Elites - and hasn't stocked any since E18..... Sucks for you that your stores aren't ordering product, I guess. But that photo was taken by another member in March. And pretty much every Smyths in the UK is like that almost constantly with the latest stuff. Just two or three days ago, I walked in to at least a dozen of everybody in Elite 25 except Rollins -- only saw one of him, but of course, those racks go up pretty high, so I couldn't see at the back of the top rows. Here are other photos of Smyths from various timeframes: If stores want the product, Mattel gives it to them. If retail stops ordering them, they will go away, just like Flex Force did. If retail wants the same kind of stuff again, Mattel will make it again, like they are with Super Strikers. None of the dolls we collect are put in our hands by magic spells. They are made to fill orders from vendors. The fact that they are bringing back Flex Force style figures and haven't brought back a Legends line means one of two things: 1. Retailers have decided that they want Flex Force style figures again but still don't want a separate Legends line. 2. Mattel has an evil conspiracy against collectors. Which one of those options do you think is more accurate? Absolutely. But the important thing is to know the difference between actual problems (like the weird parts choices and bad headsculpts that come along) and "waa waa Mattel should abandon their business and just make the things I want, even if they have no way to sell them to me because stores aren't interested in carrying the things I want." In your specific instance of WWE pressuring Mattel to make Legends figures again, WWE and Mattel want the same thing: To sell lots of product and make a profit doing it. WWE don't want Mattel selling premium toys at a loss for $3 at Big Lots.
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Post by marino13 on Dec 15, 2013 10:56:15 GMT -5
How could it be Mattel's fault if the shelves are bare? How would they know who to ship it to if the stores don't put an order in? Around here my stores usually get new stuff all the time, but it's quickly gone. So either the workers at the stores are leveling their crooked tables with a Flashback Nash or maybe they sell really really fast. And if it's the latter, I'd assume both WWE & Mattel are happy with that.
Nobody here knows how well Mattel's WWE numbers are. Nor does anyone here know what it takes to run a successful toy line. To pretend otherwise is foolish. But one could easily assume that both companies are very happy with the relationship. I know I for one love Mattel and if they left I'd not start over... (sigh) AGAIN!
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Post by Flair Forever on Dec 15, 2013 13:35:22 GMT -5
How could it be Mattel's fault if the shelves are bare? How would they know who to ship it to if the stores don't put an order in? Around here my stores usually get new stuff all the time, but it's quickly gone. So either the workers at the stores are leveling their crooked tables with a Flashback Nash or maybe they sell really really fast. And if it's the latter, I'd assume both WWE & Mattel are happy with that. Nobody here knows how well Mattel's WWE numbers are. Nor does anyone here know what it takes to run a successful toy line. To pretend otherwise is foolish. But one could easily assume that both companies are very happy with the relationship. I know I for one love Mattel and if they left I'd not start over... (sigh) AGAIN! Is it due to stores not ordering enough - or is it due to Mattel under producing and not being able to keep up with demand? I'm quite sure that the stores do not want their shelves to be empty all the time, either... Mattel's poor distribution has been discussed at-length on these forums. If I were WWE - I'd at least be asking the question "why".... if it's due to the retailers, than so be it.... as long at Mattel's doing their part. I don't see anyone jumping to this guy's defense arguing that these photos of well-stocked shelves are what typical American retail shelves look like at any given time.... no store I've been to looks like this.
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Post by marino13 on Dec 15, 2013 13:48:48 GMT -5
How could it be Mattel's fault if the shelves are bare? How would they know who to ship it to if the stores don't put an order in? Around here my stores usually get new stuff all the time, but it's quickly gone. So either the workers at the stores are leveling their crooked tables with a Flashback Nash or maybe they sell really really fast. And if it's the latter, I'd assume both WWE & Mattel are happy with that. Nobody here knows how well Mattel's WWE numbers are. Nor does anyone here know what it takes to run a successful toy line. To pretend otherwise is foolish. But one could easily assume that both companies are very happy with the relationship. I know I for one love Mattel and if they left I'd not start over... (sigh) AGAIN! Is it due to stores not ordering enough - or is it due to Mattel under producing and not being able to keep up with demand? I'm quite sure that the stores do not want their shelves to be empty all the time, either... Mattel's poor distribution has been discussed at-length on these forums. If I were WWE - I'd at least be asking the question "why".... if it's due to the retailers, than so be it.... as long at Mattel's doing their part. I don't see anyone jumping to this guy's defense arguing that these photos of well-stocked shelves are what typical American retail shelves look like at any given time.... no store I've been to looks like this. Sure it's been discussed. But, by a lot of people who don't know as much as they pretend to. I don't know for sure how that works, so I don't act like I do. I don't see shelves like that often, but when I do they generally do not last long. They get wiped out very quickly. I'd assume that's a good thing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2013 23:21:08 GMT -5
I don't see anyone jumping to this guy's defense arguing that these photos of well-stocked shelves are what typical American retail shelves look like at any given time.... no store I've been to looks like this. Smyths is a UK store, so no, no one said it was a typical American retailer. He is talking about the store (or stores) that he goes to. Calling him a liar or trying to belittle him for sharing his (and other UK members of the board) personal experience just makes you sound petty and nearly devalues any points you were trying to make, regardless of validity. It's a child's way to argue, and, judging by your grammar and comprehension skills, I know you're better than that. Yes, Mattel's distribution in the US market is horrid. No one has argued against that. But, distribution is entirely different for different countries. Whatever they're doing in the UK, they're doing right and should be doing here. As far as anyone arguing about the price involvement of what Mattel is doing compared to what Jakks did needs to take into account two important facts: Inflation and poor economy. Yes, back when Jakks was doing it, figures came with more and cost around the same, but there was more money in the public's pocket, more people willing to spend said money, and said money was worth more. Look at what Jakks is producing now, for instance. They seem to put out about two series a year that come with absolutely no accessories. They haven't made anything for the hobbyists, let alone anything near what we're complaining about with Elite figures. Is Mattel perfect? By no means no. But, given what I've seen in collecting toys for 25 years or so, I'll happily stick with Mattel. Besides, look at Ambrose, Rollins, Swagger, etc. You can't tell me they aren't stepping up their game accessory-wise. It used to be a cloth shirt. One. Road Dogg comes with two shirts made of a more expensive material. Regardless of how you feel about cloth vs. rubber, saying they haven't started improving their accessories is just blind complaining. On one final note about their price and release schedule, also keep in mind they have more than three bodies. They have a smorgasbord of different body types scaled to different sizes. It's not always perfect, but it's better than Jakks (in my opinion), as well as being more expensive and time consuming.
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Post by Chewdeezy on Dec 15, 2013 23:42:18 GMT -5
Sadly, Legends will never make a comeback to retail. Legends, Defining Moments, Entrance Greats, Legends 2-Packs, Kmart HOF Series. All Star 2-Packs and Matty Exclusives killed any chance of a dedicated Legends line ever happening again.
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Post by Flair Forever on Dec 16, 2013 15:10:05 GMT -5
I don't see anyone jumping to this guy's defense arguing that these photos of well-stocked shelves are what typical American retail shelves look like at any given time.... no store I've been to looks like this. Smyths is a UK store, so no, no one said it was a typical American retailer. He is talking about the store (or stores) that he goes to. Calling him a liar or trying to belittle him for sharing his (and other UK members of the board) personal experience just makes you sound petty and nearly devalues any points you were trying to make, regardless of validity. It's a child's way to argue, and, judging by your grammar and comprehension skills, I know you're better than that. Yes, Mattel's distribution in the US market is horrid. No one has argued against that. But, distribution is entirely different for different countries. Whatever they're doing in the UK, they're doing right and should be doing here. As far as anyone arguing about the price involvement of what Mattel is doing compared to what Jakks did needs to take into account two important facts: Inflation and poor economy. Yes, back when Jakks was doing it, figures came with more and cost around the same, but there was more money in the public's pocket, more people willing to spend said money, and said money was worth more. Look at what Jakks is producing now, for instance. They seem to put out about two series a year that come with absolutely no accessories. They haven't made anything for the hobbyists, let alone anything near what we're complaining about with Elite figures. Is Mattel perfect? By no means no. But, given what I've seen in collecting toys for 25 years or so, I'll happily stick with Mattel. Besides, look at Ambrose, Rollins, Swagger, etc. You can't tell me they aren't stepping up their game accessory-wise. It used to be a cloth shirt. One. Road Dogg comes with two shirts made of a more expensive material. Regardless of how you feel about cloth vs. rubber, saying they haven't started improving their accessories is just blind complaining. On one final note about their price and release schedule, also keep in mind they have more than three bodies. They have a smorgasbord of different body types scaled to different sizes. It's not always perfect, but it's better than Jakks (in my opinion), as well as being more expensive and time consuming. I don't think I belittled anyone..... and I don't think I actually disagree with most of the people on here. I have come to enjoy collecting Mattel products. I think they do a great job, and I think the quality of the Mattel WWE line is excellent. Sometimes I do wish Mattel released legends a bit more frequently.... I was an avid collector of JAKKS Classics and long for the days when the legends flowed like a river of action figures.... and I enjoyed going into stores and finding new figures that I didn't even know were coming out - the Internet will probably prevent that from ever happening again Remember when they released, like FIVE versions of Superstar Billy Graham? You won't find Mattel doing that kind of thing.... I work for a contracted company (that has nothing to do with toys or action figures) - and I just know what when the time comes for the contract to be renewed, more is always requested/expected - "what more can you do for me?" I've never seen a company just sit back and say "well, everything's going well, so where do we sign?" Questions are always asked, bids are always put out, it's an intense negotiation of how much can one company provide for the other.... My only point was "can WWE ask for more from Mattel?" - and that seemed to set a lot of people off. Folks, it's always okay to ask for more from these companies.... sometimes they can make changes, no problem! Sometimes, they just didn't know what we really were asking for! Other times, some of our requests are outrageous and unfeasible..... sometimes we ask for too much. I'm not asking for Mattel to make the line unprofitable... I would just like the voice of the legends collectors to be heard. And I agree, the economy has changed since the glory days of JAKKS..... I will always cherish my JAKKS collection, and I would like to add many more Mattel legends to my shelves!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2013 18:29:29 GMT -5
Here are other photos of Smyths from various timeframes: I literally drooled at this picture. Look at all of the Slaters and Diesels!
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Dec 16, 2013 20:21:26 GMT -5
I love Mattel's work. They should really get rid of those worthless lines like flexforce though, huge waste of plastic imo.
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