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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 11, 2014 16:02:21 GMT -5
Great examples. And again -- that's all stuff that is available on YouTube and elsewhere, so it's not like a newer fan CAN'T watch it unfold. But I think very few people do (at least not in the right chronological sequence). Which is fine for judging individual matches/performances on their own merit, but you do lose a lot of the drama. And even if you did watch it in sequence, you still don't get the full, authentic feel of seeing if unfold week after week while it's happening, IMO. You can watch every Cyndi Lauper WWF appearance chronologically and get the gist of the full storyline. But when you watched it in 1984-85, every week, you'd leave the house after watching wrestling and Lauper's on the radio in your car. You get to the mall, and she's plastered all over the record store and the magazine rack. You get home, she's on the news. Later that night, Mr. T is all over prime time TV. Again -- no slight intended to younger fans here, because there are things I watched later on that I missed the first time because I was too young or I didn't get that territory's TV where I lived (such as Mid South, World Class, or things from the 1970s). I get plenty of appreciation out of that footage, but I am sure someone who lived through it has a unique perspective from mine. agree 100% when you're watching it unfold...it's almost like a living thing,a living,breathing storyline. Lauper is a perfect example. the hottest music star outside of Michael Jackson at the time was showing up on TNT, on All American Wrestling,at house shows,all over the WWF. but then is also,like you said,all over MTV,all over record stores,all over the radio.it was THE thing going on at the time,and,purists will be pissed off,but she actually lended some legitimacy to the WWF and pro wrestling. because if she was involved,her fans outside of wrestling felt there must be something happening there!
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HalfBlackRazorback
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Post by HalfBlackRazorback on Jan 11, 2014 17:34:39 GMT -5
Mikey is absolutely right.!!! Back then bringing in a star of Laupers credibility wasn't as bad as when they brought snookie in . She didn't wrestle she helped bring it mainstream and it was a time when MTV was the "it" thing and she was all over it. So in a sense it was awesome to be alive for it.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 11, 2014 20:27:29 GMT -5
one of my fondest childhood wrestling memories was about 5 of my friends and I getting my parents to order pizza and having a sleepover at my house specifically centered around watching "The Brawl to End It All" on MTV.,which was heavily Cyndi Lauper influenced event (though MTV only aired the Women's title match),immediately followed by the premiere of her new music video "She Bop", featuring Wendi Richter and Capt. Lou.
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Barney Stinson
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Post by Barney Stinson on Jan 11, 2014 21:04:43 GMT -5
I always had this line of thinking that WWE should have went all out when producing the WrestleMania DVD's. Instead of just releasing a box set quickly, they could have put special features on each Mania showing fans who missed it the backstory to some of the biggest WrestleMania matches. Having guys that were in the matches, come in and do alternate commentary or do documentary footage for special features. If any PPV's could have gone all out with the extra's, it should have been the Mania's.
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Post by ztj_wwf on Jan 11, 2014 21:37:57 GMT -5
Yeah...Wasn't a fan of WM 4 or 5 wither tbh...
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 12, 2014 4:43:33 GMT -5
I always had this line of thinking that WWE should have went all out when producing the WrestleMania DVD's. Instead of just releasing a box set quickly, they could have put special features on each Mania showing fans who missed it the backstory to some of the biggest WrestleMania matches. Having guys that were in the matches, come in and do alternate commentary or do documentary footage for special features. If any PPV's could have gone all out with the extra's, it should have been the Mania's. this would've been great! WM 1 - the complete "Brawl to End It All" and "War To Settle The Score" shows WM 2 - the SNME where Hogan got injured WM 3 - the full match where Savage crushed Steamboat, the 2 Piper's Pit's leading up to Andre challenging Hogan WM 4 - the full Main Event where Andre stole the Belt from ogan WM 5 - the full Main Event where the Megapowers finally exploded etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2014 5:14:07 GMT -5
Yeah...Wasn't a fan of WM 4 or 5 wither tbh... WM5 was awesome Hogan vs Savage in the payoff to one of the hottest feuds ever Jake vs Andre with Studd as Ref Rude vs Warrior for the IC strap Demolition vs POP & Fuji and plenty more!!
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Post by Grumpyoldman on Jan 12, 2014 8:36:19 GMT -5
I thought having it in 3 different places was a pretty cool idea. It's a shame that the cameras never picked up the bump that the Dynamite Kid took.
But yeah, it did have it's stinker moments.
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HalfBlackRazorback
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Post by HalfBlackRazorback on Jan 12, 2014 9:19:33 GMT -5
Yeah...Wasn't a fan of WM 4 or 5 wither tbh... Wrestlemania 5 was a classic it had a hall of famer in just about every match From top to bottom that card was easily top 5 as one of the best manias
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2014 10:15:45 GMT -5
I'm not much of a fan of WM4 either, too much of it was dedicated to the tournament.
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Post by ztj_wwf on Jan 12, 2014 17:18:45 GMT -5
Yeah...Wasn't a fan of WM 4 or 5 wither tbh... Wrestlemania 5 was a classic it had a hall of famer in just about every match From top to bottom that card was easily top 5 as one of the best manias Yeah, but other than the opening match (which was awesome) and the main event, none of the matches were very good...And that god awful Trump Plaza was a horrible venue for a Mania.
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HalfBlackRazorback
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Post by HalfBlackRazorback on Jan 12, 2014 17:53:25 GMT -5
Wrestlemania 5 was a classic it had a hall of famer in just about every match From top to bottom that card was easily top 5 as one of the best manias Yeah, but other than the opening match (which was awesome) and the main event, none of the matches were very good...And that god awful Trump Plaza was a horrible venue for a Mania. you thought hercules vs haku was awesome? I thought the Rockers vs Twin Towers, Dibiase vs Beefcake, Perfect vs Blue Blazer were all good. Rude warrior was a good match as well. The venue was odd but the card was great
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Post by ztj_wwf on Jan 12, 2014 18:07:52 GMT -5
Yeah, but other than the opening match (which was awesome) and the main event, none of the matches were very good...And that god awful Trump Plaza was a horrible venue for a Mania. you thought hercules vs haku was awesome? I thought the Rockers vs Twin Towers, Dibiase vs Beefcake, Perfect vs Blue Blazer were all good. Rude warrior was a good match as well. The venue was odd but the card was great Oh sorry...Was thinking the Twin Towers vs Rockers opened that Mania. My bad.
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HalfBlackRazorback
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Post by HalfBlackRazorback on Jan 12, 2014 18:33:38 GMT -5
you thought hercules vs haku was awesome? I thought the Rockers vs Twin Towers, Dibiase vs Beefcake, Perfect vs Blue Blazer were all good. Rude warrior was a good match as well. The venue was odd but the card was great Oh sorry...Was thinking the Twin Towers vs Rockers opened that Mania. My bad. that was the second match and it was good
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 12, 2014 19:15:17 GMT -5
I have a soft spot for Mania IV,mainly cause it was my first Mania I got on PPV, I thought the Tournament concept was unique for the show and the stakes (this was before WCW was available here,so I had never seen the Crockett Cup at the time), and I'm a huge Demolition mark,so there was that.
that said,it is a long,tedious,sometime quite boring affair. it took WAY too long to get to the finish line.
WrestleMania V was much better in this respect,as the pace was quicker,and you didn't really get bored. plus,it had much better matches than IV.
Trump Plaza,however,was NOT a conductive environment for a wrestling card,much less the biggest one of the year! Hogan said Vince must've cut a hell of a deal with Trump,because Mania IV,the talent was not happy because it didn't have that WrestleMania vibe to it,and the crowd wasn't die-hard wrestling fans,but mostly hotel guests, casino high-rollers,and Trump's buddies and their families. so they were all happy when it was over and they were done with the place... til Vince announced they were going back there the next year!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2014 19:27:36 GMT -5
Great examples. And again -- that's all stuff that is available on YouTube and elsewhere, so it's not like a newer fan CAN'T watch it unfold. But I think very few people do (at least not in the right chronological sequence). Which is fine for judging individual matches/performances on their own merit, but you do lose a lot of the drama. And even if you did watch it in sequence, you still don't get the full, authentic feel of seeing if unfold week after week while it's happening, IMO. You can watch every Cyndi Lauper WWF appearance chronologically and get the gist of the full storyline. But when you watched it in 1984-85, every week, you'd leave the house after watching wrestling and Lauper's on the radio in your car. You get to the mall, and she's plastered all over the record store and the magazine rack. You get home, she's on the news. Later that night, Mr. T is all over prime time TV. Again -- no slight intended to younger fans here, because there are things I watched later on that I missed the first time because I was too young or I didn't get that territory's TV where I lived (such as Mid South, World Class, or things from the 1970s). I get plenty of appreciation out of that footage, but I am sure someone who lived through it has a unique perspective from mine. As one of those younger fans, I can definitely see where you're coming from. Me going back and rewatching these old feuds doesn't give me the same appreciation as it would had I viewed them live. Because, 1. I already know the outcomes so it spoils any kind of surprise that a storyline may have and 2. Not growing up in that time, or being around in the time it originally aired, I don't truly appreciate or relate to the context of that era (if that makes sense); similar to the argument of not understanding the value of Mr.T and Cindi Lauper at WM1. Keeping on that subject, I definitely fall into the camp of not appreciating how big it was to have celebrities at wrestling events. I was born in '91 so by the time I had gotten into wrestling, the WWE was already well established and very mainstream so I didn't live through the times where wrestling was a secondary form of entertainment until these celebrities came along to shine a new light on the product.
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Jan 12, 2014 22:49:49 GMT -5
Keeping on that subject, I definitely fall into the camp of not appreciating how big it was to have celebrities at wrestling events. I was born in '91 so by the time I had gotten into wrestling, the WWE was already well established and very mainstream so I didn't live through the times where wrestling was a secondary form of entertainment until these celebrities came along to shine a new light on the product. Honestly, celebrities making a big difference in a wrestling show are the exception, not the rule. Some made a big difference in mainstream exposure and helped the show and the business (Mr. T, Lauper, Mike Tyson, and as much as I hate to say it, Donald Trump). But most of the time, it's just a gratuitous appearance that doesn't add much to the show. Getting back on the thread topic of WrestleMania 2, I'd say Perry made a difference in getting the show some media attention. Mr. T was still a big star in 1986, but he was also a well-established friend of the WWF by then, so the novelty of seeing him in the ring had worn off. Ray Charles, Joan Rivers, Elvira, Ricky Schroeder, Tommy Lasorda, Ozzy Osbourne, and Joe Frazier were all very famous in 1986 but their appearances were so random that they didn't really make a dent in helping the show succeed. They didn't help nor hurt... they were just sort of "there." Susan St. James was also very famous, but her commentary was awful and detracted from the show in my opinion. Even in 1986, I had no idea who Cathy Lee Crosby was, and she's far less famous in retrospect. The burger characters (Clara Peller, Herb) were harmless, probably there to get a polite pop from the crowd, but I don't know if it worked well enough to have bothered flying them in.
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Post by hulkhogancollector on Jan 13, 2014 0:17:40 GMT -5
I enjoy Wrestlemania II, The Hogan Bundy cage match had a barbaric gladiator feel to it, I remember seeing Hogan punching Bundy while blood was spewing from his head, the bulldogs vs dream team match was intense Davy Boy press slamming Beefcake over his head, The wicked bump Dynamite took at the end.
The battle royal with the NFL players seeing the Fridge and Studd lock up it was awesome. Seeing Jake Roberts put the snake on Wells it scared me as a kid lol.
Overall maybe not as good as the first one, and they sure made up for their booking mistakes with WM II with WM III.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 14:35:49 GMT -5
Good points guys
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 14:59:57 GMT -5
I grew up in the eighties too. HERB! He and Clara Peller were competing to sell burgers for different franchises. Look him up on Youtube. Herb Burger king. I like it MUCH better than WM1. Ricky Schroeder was HUGE on Silver Spoons back then. I loved the celebs. Elvira too. You guys gotta understand this was the WWF's growth period. They NEEDED any celebrity they could get for the publicity. Dick Ebersol was instrumental in promoting the event. His wife was Susan St. James who had a huge hit with 1979's Love at First Bite. She also was on her own show with Jane Curtain then. Yeah, the card really was a product of it's time. A lot of celebrities from the 1980's popularity have diminished considerably. Here's the thing, when you are involved in pop culture, you can be tremendously popular one day and then a joke the next. I'm sure people 30 years from now will be making fun of Wrestlemania XXVII for featuring Snooki, but she was on the highest rated television show on television at the time. Why would WWE not want to give their biggest event of the year that kind of exposure? Having said that, I never really cared for the card either.
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