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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 10, 2014 6:10:32 GMT -5
I always have to ask are you watching it in comparison with today's wrestling or in comparisons with Wrestling of that era ? with wrestling of that era. I was almost 12 when Mania 2 aired,and even watching the old Coliseum Video tape of it back then (which was HIGHLY edited,by the way),I remember being underwhelmed,and it was the show I watched the least.but i was always more into the actual wrestling than the glitz or celebrities or spectacle and such,so for me the card and matches were seriously underwhelming.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 10:00:24 GMT -5
LOL I'm going to blow my cover and date myself here. I actually saw WrestleMania 2 live at the Rosemont Horizon. I had cheap seats with my dad and I'm partial to this Mania since I was there live and to top it off, it was on a MONDAY night! I love this Mania. The whole closed circuit thing was a cool concept. And not only were the people in New York chanting Roddys name, the people at the Rosemont were as well! I got to witness the battle royal with the NFL players and that was a fun time. And of course the tag match was a classic and the whole place popped huge when The Bulldogs won. I do wish the "Macho Man" vs Animal match was a little longer. I think that could have had stronger legs. All in all. A great mania and I STILL have the program.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 10:54:15 GMT -5
yeah not a big fan of WMII at all.....never have been.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 11:03:51 GMT -5
I don't think it's fair to say that you have to have been alive at the time to judge it. Anyone could compare the quality of the event to the surrounding events. WM2 is incomparable to WM3.
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jan 10, 2014 12:31:07 GMT -5
This thread gave me a good idea. This section of the forum IMO has the best discussions on wfigs. So with Mania 30 coming up this year why not do a countdown of sorts discussing each Wrestlemania daily for the 29 days leading up to Wrestlemania. Obviously starting with one and going from there would be the best way to do it. Who would be down for that?
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HalfBlackRazorback
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Post by HalfBlackRazorback on Jan 10, 2014 12:56:19 GMT -5
This thread gave me a good idea. This section of the forum IMO has the best discussions on wfigs. So with Mania 30 coming up this year why not do a countdown of sorts discussing each Wrestlemania daily for the 29 days leading up to Wrestlemania. Obviously starting with one and going from there would be the best way to do it. Who would be down for that? Count me in
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HalfBlackRazorback
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Im calling it tonight Bray Wyatt beats Bryan and the IWC explodes
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Post by HalfBlackRazorback on Jan 10, 2014 12:57:50 GMT -5
I don't think it's fair to say that you have to have been alive at the time to judge it. Anyone could compare the quality of the event to the surrounding events. WM2 is incomparable to WM3. Couldn't agree more Wrestlemania 3 had the Ali vs Frazier main event the world wanted to see. Then it had a classic IC match. WM 2 wasn't bad it just doesn't stand the test of time. But at the time Hogan vs Bundy was what the world wanted to see
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 13:04:10 GMT -5
I don't think it's fair to say that you have to have been alive at the time to judge it. Anyone could compare the quality of the event to the surrounding events. WM2 is incomparable to WM3. Couldn't agree more Wrestlemania 3 had the Ali vs Frazier main event the world wanted to see. Then it had a classic IC match. WM 2 wasn't bad it just doesn't stand the test of time. But at the time Hogan vs Bundy was what the world wanted to see I do actually feel like Savage/Steamboat is over rated. I still love it, and I was captivated by it when I first saw it, but it's no where near the best match ever as a lot of people claim. Hogan/Andre was huge, and the Harts/Bulldogs had another great match together.
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Post by T R W on Jan 10, 2014 13:16:29 GMT -5
I don't think it's fair to say that you have to have been alive at the time to judge it. Anyone could compare the quality of the event to the surrounding events. WM2 is incomparable to WM3. Couldn't agree more Wrestlemania 3 had the Ali vs Frazier main event the world wanted to see. Then it had a classic IC match. WM 2 wasn't bad it just doesn't stand the test of time. But at the time Hogan vs Bundy was what the world wanted to see It's very true. At the time, WM2 was just fine. But yeah, after over 25 WM since, it doesn't really hold up against most of them. Honestly, until WM3, the cards had always been pretty lackluster minus one or two matches. But as a kid in about 5th grade at the time, I couldn't wait for the battle royale match.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jan 10, 2014 13:24:16 GMT -5
Don't forget though people, the reason why Wrestlemania 2 and even Wrestlemania III seemed like a huge deal back in the day was because you never saw main roster guys doing battle with each other continuously.
If you watched WWF Television back then, you would have one - maybe two - big matches on the TV show, and the rest were squash matches. So to see 3 hours of main roster guys competing against each other was huge back then! So stuff like Ricky Steamboat vs. Hercules was considered great, because it beat seeing Steamboat vs. a nobody on TV.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 14:50:55 GMT -5
Not top notch, and I have only re-watched a couple times since first seeing it way back when. At the time, I was only 8 and loved it....back when I wasn't so "judgmental" of the product. Now, I wont tear it apart, but its not one of the ones I enjoy viewing over and over...
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Mastermind
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Post by Mastermind on Jan 10, 2014 14:58:04 GMT -5
I actually like Wrestlemania 2! I think it's better than the first one even though there was huge insane amounts of hype for 1, Wrestlemania 2 kinda felt like a hyped up episode of Saturday Nights Main Event.The battle royal was pretty good,the main event was good,Savage's feud with Steele was good too,all in all i think it was a good show.WWF was going through an experimentation phase during that time..trying to see what would stick,The Big Event,etc....The 3 locations for WM 2 didn't really mean much to me,but was ok..My list of WM's that are crap sure wouldn't be any of the first 8 even though 4 i think coulda been better,the WWF made up for it with the talent that was assembled.. 9 was like a circus,which is what wrestling should be like anyways,even though the card mostly stunk,I still like it..
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Post by Nivro™ on Jan 10, 2014 19:23:01 GMT -5
I always found it to be a solid, but not great, event with some good/above average matches. All of the Main Events were great. The Savage-Steele match wasnt a "5 star classic" but it was perfect because of the build up that was given for it. That goes back to something that's been said previously, if you didnt grow up watching all those storylines develop, you look at the matches and think "this is garbage" but growing up and watching Prime Time and Superstars and seeing what was going on, it puts all the pieces into the puzzle.
Besides, it could be a lot worse....Id rather eat paint chips then what Wrestlemania 15 or 16
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HalfBlackRazorback
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Im calling it tonight Bray Wyatt beats Bryan and the IWC explodes
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Post by HalfBlackRazorback on Jan 10, 2014 20:03:03 GMT -5
I always found it to be a solid, but not great, event with some good/above average matches. All of the Main Events were great. The Savage-Steele match wasnt a "5 star classic" but it was perfect because of the build up that was given for it. That goes back to something that's been said previously, if you didnt grow up watching all those storylines develop, you look at the matches and think "this is garbage" but growing up and watching Prime Time and Superstars and seeing what was going on, it puts all the pieces into the puzzle. Besides, it could be a lot worse....Id rather eat paint chips then what Wrestlemania 15 or 16 I couldn't of said it better myself
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Jan 10, 2014 22:33:46 GMT -5
I don't think you HAVE to have lived through a time to appreciate the wrestling shows that happened then. I appreciate lots of stuff I didn't see originally, when it first aired.
But I do think it helps. You can be aware of the pop culture or pro wrestling trends of the time -- of you can even look it up online and learn. But it's one thing to know William Perry and Mr. T were brought in because they were stars, and it's another thing to have first-hand perspective on how significant they really were. Same with wrestling match quality, the build-up and storylines that led to famous matches and the context that gets lost as the years pass.
A lot of people watch Savage-Steamboat at WM3 by itself and judge it that way. When I watch it, I remember watching fans scream and cry after Savage attacked Steamboat months earlier. I remember thinking Savage held the IC title so long and was so ruthless that him losing was a long shot. I remember thinking for 2 years how awesome Steamboat was and wishing to see him win a title in the WWF.
When you carry all if that subtext into watching the match, it becomes a story more than a display of great wrestling. And that subtext is far easier to attain when you lived through the moment.
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Post by T R W on Jan 11, 2014 11:50:23 GMT -5
I don't think you HAVE to have lived through a time to appreciate the wrestling shows that happened then. I appreciate lots of stuff I didn't see originally, when it first aired. But I do think it helps. You can be aware of the pop culture or pro wrestling trends of the time -- of you can even look it up online and learn. But it's one thing to know William Perry and Mr. T were brought in because they were stars, and it's another thing to have first-hand perspective on how significant they really were. Same with wrestling match quality, the build-up and storylines that led to famous matches and the context that gets lost as the years pass. A lot of people watch Savage-Steamboat at WM3 by itself and judge it that way. When I watch it, I remember watching fans scream and cry after Savage attacked Steamboat months earlier. I remember thinking Savage held the IC title so long and was so ruthless that him losing was a long shot. I remember thinking for 2 years how awesome Steamboat was and wishing to see him win a title in the WWF. When you carry all if that subtext into watching the match, it becomes a story more than a display of great wrestling. And that subtext is far easier to attain when you lived through the moment. Very well said. I have tried to explain that to people before. You can certainly appreciate wrestling that you didn't see or live through at the time. But experiencing it then, when the things were relevant and current, definitely makes it a different, and more emotional experience. People look at WM1 and say, what's the big deal about Cyndi Lauper being there. A the time, that was a HUGE deal. She was a very hot artist and would be the same if they had Taylor Swift or Katy Perry in someone's corner this year. And like you said, people know Mr. T was popular, but it's hard to understand if you didn't experience it first hand. Getting those two for WM1 was MASSIVE for the WWE and was part of what made the shows sensational at the time. Sure, nowadays celebs aren't a big deal, because it's been done a lot. So looking back, it's easy to say it was lackluster. But people were genuinely in awe and starstruck at the time. That's why I can look back at WM1 and WM2 with rose colored glasses because I have those memories.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2014 14:07:54 GMT -5
excellent posts back to back by TRW and Johnny.
I always use the Mega Powers as an example of "seeing it go down live/appreciating it more"
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Post by mikey1974 on Jan 11, 2014 14:24:06 GMT -5
excellent posts back to back by TRW and Johnny. I always use the Mega Powers as an example of "seeing it go down live/appreciating it more" yep! I'll give you a lesser known example as well: The Dream Team Self-Destruction. going into Mania 2,Greg Valentine and Brutus Beefcake were rock solid as Tag Champs.yet in their match against the bulldogs,Beefer spent very little time in the match.it's something like 80%-40% in Valentine's favor for being in the match.and even the pinfall,Beefcake COULD have stopped it,but got tripped on the ropes and fell when Davey Boy pinned Valentine. and the Dream Team carried on after that loss,but they played up VERY subtle problems between them,like really hard slaps during tags and I even remember 1 or 2 finger pointing incidents. but much like the Megapowers,it was quickly glossed over and never mentioned by the announcers. then,a year later, WrestleMania III. the Dream Team,with new ally Dino Bravo, vs The Rougeau Brothers. at one point Valentine had one of the Bros. in a full nelson,for Beefcake to come off the top and axe-handle,but the Rougeau Brother swings around at the last minute,and Beefcake nails Valentine on the back of the neck. this almost ends up costing them the match as shortly thereafter,Valentine is being pinned. but with the ref distracted,Bravo comes off the top and nails Raymond, allowing Valentine to reverse the pin and win the match.then immediately after Bravo,Valentine,and manager Luscious Johnny V. abandon Beefcake and get in his face, and subsequently declare him the weak link of the team,and blame him for the Dream Team losing the Belts in the first place,and Beefcake goes on to newly minted Face status and a successful run as the Barberwhile Bravo and Valentine form the New Dream Team. all started a year earlier with the actions at WrestleMania 2,and very subtly built over a year.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2014 14:29:48 GMT -5
yes the Dream Team is another excellent example.
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Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai
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Post by Johnny Lawrence - Cobra Kai on Jan 11, 2014 15:52:48 GMT -5
Great examples. And again -- that's all stuff that is available on YouTube and elsewhere, so it's not like a newer fan CAN'T watch it unfold. But I think very few people do (at least not in the right chronological sequence). Which is fine for judging individual matches/performances on their own merit, but you do lose a lot of the drama.
And even if you did watch it in sequence, you still don't get the full, authentic feel of seeing if unfold week after week while it's happening, IMO. You can watch every Cyndi Lauper WWF appearance chronologically and get the gist of the full storyline. But when you watched it in 1984-85, every week, you'd leave the house after watching wrestling and Lauper's on the radio in your car. You get to the mall, and she's plastered all over the record store and the magazine rack. You get home, she's on the news. Later that night, Mr. T is all over prime time TV.
Again -- no slight intended to younger fans here, because there are things I watched later on that I missed the first time because I was too young or I didn't get that territory's TV where I lived (such as Mid South, World Class, or things from the 1970s). I get plenty of appreciation out of that footage, but I am sure someone who lived through it has a unique perspective from mine.
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