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Joined on: Jun 28, 2024 22:07:56 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 11:34:28 GMT -5
I think the op forgets about the whole Ryfront incident.
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Post by BrIaNMeRcY on Apr 20, 2014 12:10:13 GMT -5
If Facebook and Twitter are any indication of the human mind, I've seen a grand number of people that seem to think and react without reasoning. Oh buddy, buddy, buddy. When I had my Facebook page, the vast majority of the people I had were fake, two-faced people. They kept on typing asnine status updates as to how awesome their lives were. Like I give a damn. I am so glad I deleted my Facebook page.
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Post by Grumpyoldman on Apr 20, 2014 12:29:32 GMT -5
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Post by Himmy! on Apr 20, 2014 13:30:04 GMT -5
This is a very interesting topic guys. May come back with an answer when I've thought it through a bit more. I'll keep on reading though, some interesting ideas.
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Post by k5 on Apr 20, 2014 14:26:41 GMT -5
i believe that you can think without logic, as i think that logic is simply a tool to think with. abstract thought - which works more in shapes and colors than language, is specifically void of logical theory. logic is really only knowledge on how to directly manipulate physical or 'real' factors of things around us, when we're not seeking results from actions, logic is not required.
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mrassbillygunn
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Apr 20, 2014 14:36:37 GMT -5
Yes...i think like that all the time when i go into the bookies and lose my money on the horses.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Apr 20, 2014 19:23:59 GMT -5
Of course, you can have a thought that doesn't follow any sort of logic/reasoning. The way I see it, every thought we have starts out as nothing. It is up to us and our minds to try and comprehend the thoughts that enter our brain and psyche. Even then, something can still not make any real sense. If it doesn't make sense, that doesn't mean our brains are refraining from attempting to use reason to solve the issue. If the brain could process thoughts without adhering to some form of reasoning, there would never be a struggle to process information.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Apr 20, 2014 21:28:17 GMT -5
i believe that you can think without logic, as i think that logic is simply a tool to think with. abstract thought - which works more in shapes and colors than language, is specifically void of logical theory. logic is really only knowledge on how to directly manipulate physical or 'real' factors of things around us, when we're not seeking results from actions, logic is not required. So you're admitting that in terms of deducing claims, such as hypotheses about the origins of universe, that humans can't actually examine such things without adhering to what constitutes an attempt at logic/reasoning that is considered valid under the guidelines of the given premises?
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Apr 20, 2014 21:30:18 GMT -5
I think the op forgets about the whole Ryfront incident. That whole concept was simply a pun that people enjoyed more than was justified. It still functioned under a form of supposed valid-reasoning. Also Known As "Distorted Logic/Logical Fallacies." Thanks for the contribution! 8)
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Post by Justin on Apr 20, 2014 21:54:31 GMT -5
Yes I think we can think without logic, have you ever made a rash decision or said something that you look back on and think why the hell did I do/say that? I believe you lose logic in times of panic and need to think quickly
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Apr 20, 2014 22:02:54 GMT -5
Yeah I think so. where I live is quite rough my parents always told me if im walking home late to put my house key between my fingers if anyone trys anything, im protected.
I walked across the bridge a few times and I always get this urge to throw my key I to the river. It would be physically impossible to retrieve it. And id be locked out all night until my dad came home from work at 8am.
I've never done it but the urge is there. Sometimes I do stupid crap for no reason just becuase I like the idea that I dont know what could happen even if the consequences are bad and I know they're likely to be bad. I'm not sure if its a psychological issue or something but also when in a high place I like to get really close to the edge its an amazing feeling to be so close to death just one step a slip and that's it. Nothing makes me feel more alive than being close to mortal danger.
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Post by Word™ on Apr 20, 2014 22:25:13 GMT -5
Everyday.
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Post by Ace Bennett on Apr 20, 2014 23:03:54 GMT -5
I think so, especially if someone is in a life or death situation. You don't really use reason, moreso instinct. I think humans still possess a shred of the instinct that our evolutionary ancestors, which were more animalistic (if that's a word), possessed. You aren't going to think something through if you have a gun pointed to your head and five seconds to react in a certain manner. You're going to do what your instincts tell you to do, which is usually a flight or fight reaction.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Apr 21, 2014 11:34:01 GMT -5
Yeah I think so. where I live is quite rough my parents always told me if im walking home late to put my house key between my fingers if anyone trys anything, im protected. I walked across the bridge a few times and I always get this urge to throw my key I to the river. It would be physically impossible to retrieve it. And id be locked out all night until my dad came home from work at 8am. I've never done it but the urge is there. Sometimes I do stupid crap for no reason just becuase I like the idea that I dont know what could happen even if the consequences are bad and I know they're likely to be bad. I'm not sure if its a psychological issue or something but also when in a high place I like to get really close to the edge its an amazing feeling to be so close to death just one step a slip and that's it. Nothing makes me feel more alive than being close to mortal danger. Michael from VSAUCE discusses that psychological phenomenon in one of his videos. It's the same feeling people get when they feel the compulsion to jump off of a bridge, or push their friend off a clip. You don't do it, but your brain reacts in an odd way to the knowledge that you posses such ability to do that. This is why I asked if the brain can work outside of a distorted reasoning. Psychological Phenomenon, & Instinctual Behavior constitutes distorted reasoning.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Apr 21, 2014 11:39:44 GMT -5
I think so, especially if someone is in a life or death situation. You don't really use reason, moreso instinct. I think humans still possess a shred of the instinct that our evolutionary ancestors, which were more animalistic (if that's a word), possessed. You aren't going to think something through if you have a gun pointed to your head and five seconds to react in a certain manner. You're going to do what your instincts tell you to do, which is usually a flight or fight reaction. Instincts adhere to a reasoning based on pure survival. The question isn't whether or not humans can think illogically under the guidelines of valid reasoning. The question is can humans function, without adhering to some form of reasoning based on some goal. A fight or flight reaction does succumb to the reasoning of "Must. Not. Die."
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Post by k5 on Apr 21, 2014 11:58:01 GMT -5
i believe that you can think without logic, as i think that logic is simply a tool to think with. abstract thought - which works more in shapes and colors than language, is specifically void of logical theory. logic is really only knowledge on how to directly manipulate physical or 'real' factors of things around us, when we're not seeking results from actions, logic is not required. So you're admitting that in terms of deducing claims, such as hypotheses about the origins of universe, that humans can't actually examine such things without adhering to what constitutes an attempt at logic/reasoning that is considered valid under the guidelines of the given premises? actually i disagree with that. simply ask anyone under a strong dosage of lysergic acid what the origins of the universe are, and you'll hear a possibly quite clarified opinion void of any true logic. perhaps you could find logic within their explanation, but they did not use logic as the manner to conceive their thoughts.
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Post by Grumpyoldman on Apr 21, 2014 17:48:44 GMT -5
I'm stumped. I think I read too deep into the questions, but let me know if I'm in the ballpark...
Do you mean if someone sneezes, and you just blurt out "gezundheit".
Or if you instinctively put salt on your french fries without tasting them first, out of habit.
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Post by King Bálor (CM)™ on Apr 21, 2014 17:52:39 GMT -5
If I understand you correctly, wouldnt flipping a coin be acting without reason?
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Apr 21, 2014 18:05:57 GMT -5
If I understand you correctly, wouldnt flipping a coin be acting without reason? The general purpose of flipping a coin, would be to allow the side on which the coin landed to determine which choice the flipper will go with. They are relieving themselves of the responsibility of making their own decisions. This follows a line of reasoning, be it illogical in truth or only valid under a distorted form of reasoning.
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Post by Turnbuckle Zealot(Phil) on Apr 21, 2014 18:10:48 GMT -5
I'm stumped. I think I read too deep into the questions, but let me know if I'm in the ballpark... Do you mean if someone sneezes, and you just blurt out "gezundheit". Or if you instinctively put salt on your french fries without tasting them first, out of habit. You don't put salt on fries instinctively, but habitually. You first did it to try it, then you continued to do it until it became an almost involuntary response due to your brain being so accustomed to performing the action. To stay on point, we're trying to determine how a human can process thoughts without some adherence to a form of reasoning that is either valid or considered avoid due to ignorance on the part of the thinker.
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