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Post by OmegaGaijin on Aug 21, 2014 10:13:56 GMT -5
Scott Steiner in 2003 is another example. never made Wrestlemania....and used all wrong against HHH after unfairly taking 100% of the blame for their stinky matches. Why Vince & his daughter insisted on booking Steiner the way they did when they KNEW he had drop foot is utterly confounding to me. Its so blatantly obvious to me that Hunter is a sly creep, he even looks like one. He certainly didn't do whats best for business with Poppa Pump.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:17:33 GMT -5
Scott Steiner in 2003 is another example. never made Wrestlemania....and used all wrong against HHH after unfairly taking 100% of the blame for their stinky matches. Why Vince & his daughter insisted on booking Steiner the way they did when they KNEW he had drop foot is utterly confounding to me. Its so blatantly obvious to me that Hunter is a sly creep, he even looks like one. He certainly didn't do whats best for business with Poppa Pump. He sure didn't....or with Goldberg. using his pull to keep the strap @ Summerslam 2003 was utter crap. It was there that Bill should have became champ.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 10:19:58 GMT -5
Shelton Benjimin
Sting
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Post by OmegaGaijin on Aug 21, 2014 10:29:28 GMT -5
Its so blatantly obvious to me that Hunter is a sly creep, he even looks like one. He certainly didn't do whats best for business with Poppa Pump. He sure didn't....or with Goldberg. using his pull to keep the strap @ Summerslam 2003 was utter crap. It was there that Bill should have became champ.
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Post by punksnotdead on Aug 21, 2014 11:07:49 GMT -5
If I have to pick one guy it's Raven from 00-03. Raven should have headlined the ECW talent for the Invasion. He was a polished worker, the best talker of anyone coming over, and his gimmick was interchangeable with so many of WWE's top stars. He cleaned his act up too in WWE. He was in the best physical shape of his life by 02-03. At worst, he should have been Intercontinental Champion during his time in WWE, at best, he should have been feuding against Austin at the top of the card as the main antagonist for the Invasion. He was largely wasted at the top of the midcard in WCW, but so many guys were at that time. Turns out, WCW used him better than WWE.
I think a ton of the WCW talent was wasted to a crazy degree but so much of that had to do with the contracts and an overall unwillingness to put those guys over when they did arrive.
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Post by johnnyb on Aug 21, 2014 12:25:07 GMT -5
Scott Steiner in 2003 is another example. never made Wrestlemania....and used all wrong against HHH after unfairly taking 100% of the blame for their stinky matches. Why Vince & his daughter insisted on booking Steiner the way they did when they KNEW he had drop foot is utterly confounding to me. That's a great example! Steiner was over HUGE when he returned in late-2002 but by about March he lost all of that drawing power because of H's terrible ego. If it was me, I would have had Steiner absolutely crush H in all of their matches (and used better build-up than arm wrestling contests and pose-offs) and sent him into Wrestlemania undefeated to defend against Booker T... it would have been a cool callback to their feuds in WCW. Hell, you could probably have brought Rick and Stevie Ray in to help build that up. Anything would have been better than that terrible H/Booker T burial at Wrestlemania.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2014 12:36:39 GMT -5
Scott Steiner in 2003 is another example. never made Wrestlemania....and used all wrong against HHH after unfairly taking 100% of the blame for their stinky matches. Why Vince & his daughter insisted on booking Steiner the way they did when they KNEW he had drop foot is utterly confounding to me. That's a great example! Steiner was over HUGE when he returned in late-2002 but by about March he lost all of that drawing power because of H's terrible ego. If it was me, I would have had Steiner absolutely crush H in all of their matches (and used better build-up than arm wrestling contests and pose-offs) and sent him into Wrestlemania undefeated to defend against Booker T... it would have been a cool callback to their feuds in WCW. Hell, you could probably have brought Rick and Stevie Ray in to help build that up. Anything would have been better than that terrible H/Booker T burial at Wrestlemania. Stephanie & HHH's ego in 2003 would have never allowed a Steiner victory of any kind BUT he could still have been saved. 1)the style and pace of their matches should have been changed. HHH was still too heavy with muscle and was in crap shape.....Steiner had drop foot eliminating 70-80% of his moveset. 2)RR2003......you book a short exciting brawl which Steiner dominates(say about 8 minutes) which Evolution save HHH from giving Steiner the win......doing what they did after the blistering Angle vs Benoit match was absolute suicide.....only the colossal ego of Vince & the billion $$ boobjob could have thought otherwise. 3)Put the two of them in a cage at No Way Out 2003 to disguise the weakness's of BOTH men.......Steiner demands the cage match and HHH agrees but Bisch stipulates(under pressure from Evolution) its Steiner's last shot and have HHH win by nefarious means with help from Flair. maybe Flair handcuffs Steiner to the cage while HHH escapes? Cue Evolution beatdown to keep Steiner in the picture but out of the title picture? 4)Steiner continues his feud with Evolution alongside Booker T.....and at least gets on the effin card @ WM.
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Post by Evil Abed on Aug 22, 2014 3:40:05 GMT -5
That's a great example! Steiner was over HUGE when he returned in late-2002 but by about March he lost all of that drawing power because of H's terrible ego. If it was me, I would have had Steiner absolutely crush H in all of their matches (and used better build-up than arm wrestling contests and pose-offs) and sent him into Wrestlemania undefeated to defend against Booker T... it would have been a cool callback to their feuds in WCW. Hell, you could probably have brought Rick and Stevie Ray in to help build that up. Anything would have been better than that terrible H/Booker T burial at Wrestlemania. Stephanie & HHH's ego in 2003 would have never allowed a Steiner victory of any kind BUT he could still have been saved. 1)the style and pace of their matches should have been changed. HHH was still too heavy with muscle and was in crap shape.....Steiner had drop foot eliminating 70-80% of his moveset. 2)RR2003......you book a short exciting brawl which Steiner dominates(say about 8 minutes) which Evolution save HHH from giving Steiner the win......doing what they did after the blistering Angle vs Benoit match was absolute suicide.....only the colossal ego of Vince & the billion $$ boobjob could have thought otherwise. 3)Put the two of them in a cage at No Way Out 2003 to disguise the weakness's of BOTH men.......Steiner demands the cage match and HHH agrees but Bisch stipulates(under pressure from Evolution) its Steiner's last shot and have HHH win by nefarious means with help from Flair. maybe Flair handcuffs Steiner to the cage while HHH escapes? Cue Evolution beatdown to keep Steiner in the picture but out of the title picture? 4)Steiner continues his feud with Evolution alongside Booker T.....and at least gets on the effin card @ WM. I completely respect everyones opinions but I gotta disagree with all the Steiner remarks saying he should have gotten better. I'll agree that he came in and got some huge pops, but they also gave him world title shots right out of the gate. I think that is certainly more than he deserved just coming back to the company. If his matches were even like a 5/10 rating I'd agree saying they should have done better with him but his matches were utter garbage. I also think he may have gotten the short straw at Mania because everyone from Evolution got hurt right before the event. Orton and Batista both went down with lengthy injuries and I could prob have seen Steiner vs Batista as much of a snoozefest that it would have been, so maybe we should be thankful Batista and Orton got injured. Once crowds started to see him wrestle, his pops went down the drain too pretty much, taking away the one good thing Steiner had going for him. Also if it was just his matches with Triple H then I'd say its H's fault but I can remember pretty poor performances against Jericho and Batista as well. Not to mention that his matches with Test following Wrestlemania were abysmal as well just proving that at his age he was having trouble working a decent singles match (probably why the remainder of his WWE tenure was mostly tag matches with Booker, Nash or Test). I'd say whoever made the call to cut Steiner's push (whether it be Triple H, Vince, Steph, or someone else) made the right call.
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Aug 22, 2014 4:04:10 GMT -5
Steiner should have never been brought in as a face to begin with. The reason he was so over was because of being a bad ass loose cannon heel in WCW 00-01. He should have been the same exact character in the WWE although maybe toned down a bit as he did get a little out of hand every now and then in WCW. The second thing is that if I remember correctly Scott didn't want to come in yet due to his drop foot. I remember hearing that at one point or another. His ring work being bad had nothing to due with age it was all injury and maybe some rust as well but that's it. He put on plenty of matches in TNA that were better then anything he did in the WWE. Its a shame because Scott was ing fantastic until that time period. His entire career beforehand was great.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 14:26:16 GMT -5
Heel Steiner vs. Face Stone Cold would have been a VERY interesting feud.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 14:33:18 GMT -5
Kerry Von Erich. He had everything you'd want in a top star and threw it all away because he'd rather be ed up all the time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 14:55:28 GMT -5
Triple H doesn't get enough blame for his sh*tty matches with Scott Steiner.
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Lithium
Superstar
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Post by Lithium on Aug 22, 2014 21:51:03 GMT -5
I'm going to be a little different and say Cesaro since the night after WrestleMania XXX.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2014 22:00:46 GMT -5
Taz without a doubt. The guy had the character. He had the look even at his size. He had the fan base. And he had the skills. He came in so hot only to be dropped within months as just another hardcore guy. He could have been made into a force to be reckoned with and put in great feuds against the likes of Austin, Hunter, and the Rock. In my opinion he was ECWs biggest home grown talent like Sting was to WCW. He could have done more than feud with Lawler, become Austin's literal whipping boy, and tagging with Spike Dudley. I know injures shortened his WWE career, but they could have done so much in so little time.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Aug 23, 2014 0:08:38 GMT -5
So I know that Shelton Benjamin is an internet darling and is my brother's favorite wrestler, but do people really believe that he should've been a World Champion? Same goes for John Morrison? Nobody with any sense believes it, no. Morrison was one of the worst promos ever, and Shelton wasn't much better. They were just guys who did jumps and flips. They were basically just two much less marketable versions of Kofi Kingston.
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Post by HVMMONS on Aug 23, 2014 0:13:09 GMT -5
Matt Hardy's whole singles run. V1 was good, and his feud with Edge was good too. He had so much more to offer.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Aug 23, 2014 0:23:23 GMT -5
Taz without a doubt. The guy had the character. He had the look even at his size. He had the fan base. And he had the skills. He came in so hot only to be dropped within months as just another hardcore guy. He could have been made into a force to be reckoned with and put in great feuds against the likes of Austin, Hunter, and the Rock. In my opinion he was ECWs biggest home grown talent like Sting was to WCW. He could have done more than feud with Lawler, become Austin's literal whipping boy, and tagging with Spike Dudley. I know injures shortened his WWE career, but they could have done so much in so little time. Tazz was exposed when he got to the big leagues. He was a fat little oompah loompah who looked ridiculous against WWF stars. He was nothing without Paul Heyman's protective booking, which is why it's so weird that he was even signed in the first place. Did Heyman orchestrate the signing? I'm fairly sure Vince had never laid eyes on Tazz prior to Royal Rumble 2000, and as soon as he saw his new "star" he turned to Patterson and Brisco and said: Although that said, Tazz getting bullied by Austin during the invasion was great fun, and then his tag team with Spike was pretty cool while it lasted. I remember being so excited when Raven turned up in the WWF to help Tazz, and then getting so downhearted that he did nothing after that. For some reason, I was a huge Raven fan from about 1997, I thought he was the coolest wrestler on earth. I was a sucker for the grunge look, I think. It was only after he went to TNA and stank up the place that I realised he kind of sucked, and that he could talk a good game in shoot interviews about what's right and wrong in wrestling but he rarely ever put it into practise in the ring. I do still enjoy a fair bit of his character work in ECW and WCW though. His rant on the WCW Playstation game was great.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Aug 23, 2014 0:28:49 GMT -5
Matt Hardy's whole singles run. V1 was good, and his feud with Edge was good too. He had so much more to offer. I think Hardy completely sucked from about 2004 onwards, but V1 was one of the greatest gimmicks ever. It was the highlight of Smackdown for me, the entrance with the Matt facts and everything, I loved it. His role in Brock Lesnar's feuds in late 2002 was brilliant stuff. I'm still mad that Albert stole the feud he was supposed to have with Edge/Mysterio. I don't know if Albert had some kind of compromising photos of somebody, but for some reason, the WWE was determined to push him to the main event despite him being utterly useless. In the early 00s, he was wrestling Undertaker at WrestleMania and beating Kane when beating Kane still meant something. And a decade later, he was beating John Cena and CM Punk. Crazy. But yeah, I think Mattitude had tons more potential than WWE ever explored with it.
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Post by HVMMONS on Aug 23, 2014 0:35:11 GMT -5
Matt Hardy's whole singles run. V1 was good, and his feud with Edge was good too. He had so much more to offer. I think Hardy completely sucked from about 2004 onwards, but V1 was one of the greatest gimmicks ever. It was the highlight of Smackdown for me, the entrance with the Matt facts and everything, I loved it. His role in Brock Lesnar's feuds in late 2002 was brilliant stuff. I'm still mad that Albert stole the feud he was supposed to have with Edge/Mysterio. I don't know if Albert had some kind of compromising photos of somebody, but for some reason, the WWE was determined to push him to the main event despite him being utterly useless. In the early 00s, he was wrestling Undertaker at WrestleMania and beating Kane when beating Kane still meant something. And a decade later, he was beating John Cena and CM Punk. Crazy. But yeah, I think Mattitude had tons more potential than WWE ever explored with it. I see where you're coming from. Mattitude was without a doubt the best gimmick Matt could've had. I also enjoyed his facts, lol. Him and Shannon could've been a serious main event duo together.
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Dante, The Voc
Main Eventer
If I'm not online, I'm on the toilet
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Post by Dante, The Voc on Aug 23, 2014 20:06:09 GMT -5
Ugh where to begin...a lot of reputable points have been brought up thus far. Sorry for the length but you and I know there's a lot of underused talent in the company's history. Dolph Ziggler: I bring this up a lot but at WM 29 my section of the crowd (and I'm sure a few more sections) boo'ed the Special Olympics video package after the Del RIo/Swagger match, following minutes of "We Want Ziggler" not resulting in his cash-in. Then the next night his music hitting results in a crowd reaction that WWE THEMSELVES rank in the top 3 all-time. The crowds are even behind him today, moreso than some of the main-eventers despite his position. I woulda loved to see what they would've done with him if he didn't get the concussion. Drew McIntyre: Vince McMahon's chosen one. How do you that up? Should've won MiTB at Wrestlemania instead of Swagger, cashed in, and went on a lengthy feud with the McMahons, claiming that he is bigger than the McMahon family and beating HHH at WM 27. Ryback: More over than Cena, Sheamus and Orton put together in 2012. Hotshotted into a lose-lose WWE Title scenario, never got a win over the Shield, fell flat at WM against Henry and turned heel, with his momentum never regrouping. Sad. Zack Ryder: We talk a lot about guys being punished for getting over on their own merit and none more prove this notion than Zack Ryder. Lost the belt that everyone was waiting to see him get within a month. Never got a rematch. Thrown into a fourth-wheel lackey role in a craptastic Cena/Kane/Eve storyline, culminating with a swift kick to the groin at WM 28. Shoulda gone over Kane at WM then finally lost the belt at SS to Cesaro. And shoulda stayed relevant; coulda had a meaningful feud with Sandow. Speaking of... Damien Sandow: Oh god. What happened? He was white-hot at MiTB 2013, but the briefcase was used as a prop to get Cody over (for an angle that got him absolutely nowhere) then lost the cash-in to a virtually one-armed Cena. Despite having a garbage cosplay gimmick still comes up with witty heel heat. The man has talent on the mic but they stripped everything from what made his character special. Dan Severn: His run in WWE was so forgetful and it's a shame because he could seriously snap someone in half. A SS match, with or without the Lion's Den, with Shamrock woulda been gold. DDP: Another sad story of Vince not wanting to use a guy properly simply because he was a WCW guy. Pure BS considering he, along with guys like Awesome, Booker, etc. theoretically surrendered and joined Vince. Deserved more than a Euro title run. Others include (but are not limited to) Rick Rude, Mr Perfect, Wade Barrett, Chavo Guerrero, Carlito, Vader, Kane, Raven, Cesaro, Shane Douglas, and the team of Cade and Murdoch. Gotdamn.
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