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Post by Halloween King on Oct 10, 2014 0:07:28 GMT -5
You know the thing is though that the Bible is based on much older stories. The Sumerians and the Hindus predate Christianity and they have very similar stories in their writings. So some might be quick to put down the bible but it was based in facts obviously. So while yes it may seem dated to you that does not mean it is untrue. Look at a VCR that seems out dated doesnt it? Yet you can pop in an educational video tape and still learn things. Sure we've moved on from VCRs and we've, for the most part, moved on from stoning people to death but that doesnt mean there is nothing to be learned there in. i would completely agree with that - i grew up in a christian household, and while i do not choose to any longer participate in that and haven't for years, i would never argue the value in many of the lessons and teachings throughout not just the bible, but most religions across the board. taking things literally when they're perhaps better viewed in context can be quite damaging though. a perfect example is the religious terrorists or the westboro baptist church. i don't think looking to the bible to see if it's okay or not to spank your kid is very thought out overall, but that's my opinion, and i understand others clearly feel differently...but for the sake of the child, does it not make sense to look into studies surrounding spanking? on a different note, it's fascinating to me that so many states' schools still employ a form of 'corporal punishment' upon children. that said, i guess it was only a decade ago here that we banned it...but yeesh, that's scary stuff. It always blows my mind when people compare 1 single isolated church, Westboro, with Muslim extremist. There is a region full of these extremist who are too quick to post their violent acts online for the world to see. On the other hand there is 1 church who has been vocal in their disliking of gays. Its like comparing a giant Cerberus with human heads at it's feet to a tiny yappy poodle.
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Post by k5 on Oct 10, 2014 0:21:19 GMT -5
i would completely agree with that - i grew up in a christian household, and while i do not choose to any longer participate in that and haven't for years, i would never argue the value in many of the lessons and teachings throughout not just the bible, but most religions across the board. taking things literally when they're perhaps better viewed in context can be quite damaging though. a perfect example is the religious terrorists or the westboro baptist church. i don't think looking to the bible to see if it's okay or not to spank your kid is very thought out overall, but that's my opinion, and i understand others clearly feel differently...but for the sake of the child, does it not make sense to look into studies surrounding spanking? on a different note, it's fascinating to me that so many states' schools still employ a form of 'corporal punishment' upon children. that said, i guess it was only a decade ago here that we banned it...but yeesh, that's scary stuff. It always blows my mind when people compare 1 single isolated church, Westboro, with Muslim extremist. There is a region full of these extremist who are too quick to post their violent acts online for the world to see. On the other hand there is 1 church who has been vocal in their disliking of gays. Its like comparing a giant Cerberus with human heads at it's feet to a tiny yappy poodle. i'd put it more on the level of a first degree human offense to a third degree human offense. both are based on the same brainwashing structure of hatred/lack of acceptance.
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Post by Halloween King on Oct 10, 2014 0:35:34 GMT -5
It always blows my mind when people compare 1 single isolated church, Westboro, with Muslim extremist. There is a region full of these extremist who are too quick to post their violent acts online for the world to see. On the other hand there is 1 church who has been vocal in their disliking of gays. Its like comparing a giant Cerberus with human heads at it's feet to a tiny yappy poodle. i'd put it more on the level of a first degree human offense to a third degree human offense. both are based on the same brainwashing structure of hatred/lack of acceptance. Again though, you're comparing on church, one tiny zip code in a rural area. To a region on the world map that spans thousands of miles. That's like comparing a needle to a hey stack.
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Post by k5 on Oct 10, 2014 0:44:02 GMT -5
i'd put it more on the level of a first degree human offense to a third degree human offense. both are based on the same brainwashing structure of hatred/lack of acceptance. Again though, you're comparing on church, one tiny zip code in a rural area. To a region on the world map that spans thousands of miles. That's like comparing a needle to a hey stack. they're both using the same mentality to allow themselves to commit acts of hatred. the size of the acts and numbers of people behind them differ, but the conditioning and hatred are exactly the same. see, i'm not saying a needle is the size of a haystack. i'm saying they're both physical realities.
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Post by Halloween King on Oct 10, 2014 0:50:55 GMT -5
Again though, you're comparing on church, one tiny zip code in a rural area. To a region on the world map that spans thousands of miles. That's like comparing a needle to a hey stack. they're both using the same mentality to allow themselves to commit acts of hatred. the size of the acts and numbers of people behind them differ, but the conditioning and hatred are exactly the same. see, i'm not saying a needle is the size of a haystack. i'm saying they're both physical realities. You're comparing a group that verbally belittles people to a group that decapitates, bombs, stones, hangs, mutilates, and god knows what else, human beings.
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Post by k5 on Oct 10, 2014 1:02:00 GMT -5
they're both using the same mentality to allow themselves to commit acts of hatred. the size of the acts and numbers of people behind them differ, but the conditioning and hatred are exactly the same. see, i'm not saying a needle is the size of a haystack. i'm saying they're both physical realities. You're comparing a group that verbally belittles people to a group that decapitates, bombs, stones, hangs, mutilates, and god knows what else, human beings. not gonna repeat myself... the size of the acts and numbers of people behind them differ, but the conditioning and hatred are exactly the same. see, i'm not saying a needle is the size of a haystack. i'm saying they're both physical realities.
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Post by Brad on Oct 10, 2014 6:17:43 GMT -5
You're comparing a group that verbally belittles people to a group that decapitates, bombs, stones, hangs, mutilates, and god knows what else, human beings. not gonna repeat myself... the size of the acts and numbers of people behind them differ, but the conditioning and hatred are exactly the same. see, i'm not saying a needle is the size of a haystack. i'm saying they're both physical realities. Westboro is not a fair representation of what Christians should stand for. I am proud to call myself a Christian. Yet, I totally disagree with the acts of Westboro. They simply have the entire message all wrong. I think what is trying to be expressed in this back and forth is that it is not fair to judge all sects of people who follow Christ, to one extreme group who does it all wrong. To the person who mentioned it surprising them that some schools still use spanking, that much I'd agree with. As an uncle who has his nephew full time in the home and a future parent who will spank their child when needed, I would NOT be okay with the school taking it upon them to do so. I will handle that aspect and decide when it is needed.
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Post by k5 on Oct 10, 2014 11:45:02 GMT -5
Westboro is not a fair representation of what Christians should stand for. I am proud to call myself a Christian. Yet, I totally disagree with the acts of Westboro. They simply have the entire message all wrong. I think what is trying to be expressed in this back and forth is that it is not fair to judge all sects of people who follow Christ, to one extreme group who does it all wrong. To the person who mentioned it surprising them that some schools still use spanking, that much I'd agree with. As an uncle who has his nephew full time in the home and a future parent who will spank their child when needed, I would NOT be okay with the school taking it upon them to do so. I will handle that aspect and decide when it is needed. the problem is, that's just your opinion. i'm sure in the westboro baptist church they'd view your interpretations of christianity as 'having the message wrong'. this is a perfect example of what can happen when people use religion to dictate their direct beliefs and actions and believe that their religion gives them an authority on subjects. it's the same way priests have manipulated people into sex for thousands of years, countries have motivated people for war (with god on our side), hitler even claimed that the nazi party was a force of christianity. point being: when people shut their minds off and let religion do the thinking for them, bad stuff happens, no matter how large or small their group is.
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Post by Halloween King on Oct 10, 2014 12:25:27 GMT -5
You're comparing a group that verbally belittles people to a group that decapitates, bombs, stones, hangs, mutilates, and god knows what else, human beings. not gonna repeat myself... the size of the acts and numbers of people behind them differ, but the conditioning and hatred are exactly the same. see, i'm not saying a needle is the size of a haystack. i'm saying they're both physical realities. See this is beyond silly to me. It's like saying a person who swatted a child's behind is the same as a person who would closed fist punch a baby in the face. It's two different things.
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Post by Brad on Oct 10, 2014 12:25:32 GMT -5
Westboro is not a fair representation of what Christians should stand for. I am proud to call myself a Christian. Yet, I totally disagree with the acts of Westboro. They simply have the entire message all wrong. I think what is trying to be expressed in this back and forth is that it is not fair to judge all sects of people who follow Christ, to one extreme group who does it all wrong. To the person who mentioned it surprising them that some schools still use spanking, that much I'd agree with. As an uncle who has his nephew full time in the home and a future parent who will spank their child when needed, I would NOT be okay with the school taking it upon them to do so. I will handle that aspect and decide when it is needed. the problem is, that's just your opinion. i'm sure in the westboro baptist church they'd view your interpretations of christianity as 'having the message wrong'. this is a perfect example of what can happen when people use religion to dictate their direct beliefs and actions and believe that their religion gives them an authority on subjects. it's the same way priests have manipulated people into sex for thousands of years, countries have motivated people for war (with god on our side), hitler even claimed that the nazi party was a force of christianity. point being: when people shut their minds off and let religion do the thinking for them, bad stuff happens, no matter how large or small their group is. And with all due respect, that is YOUR opinion. The problem is, the Gospel message has been twisted. For example, people look at the groups who bash homosexuals and assume that is exactly what is taught and how all Christians are. I do not agree with the lifestyle and will stand up for that belief but I am not hateful in my actions. I have friends who live that lifestyle, they know I don't agree with it. Yet, we are still friends. I say that, to point out, that Westboro showing straight up hate towards the people who do these things, or who have served in wars ETC, are NOT representation of what the bible teaches. When the new covenant was given, we were given two commandments, that was to love God and to love others as we do ourselves. Showing outright hatred is not love. That is why I say that Westboro has it wrong.
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Post by k5 on Oct 10, 2014 13:28:06 GMT -5
not gonna repeat myself... See this is beyond silly to me. It's like saying a person who swatted a child's behind is the same as a person who would closed fist punch a baby in the face. It's two different things. well, they're both physical violence brought upon an innocent child. one would certainly cause an extreme amount more damage than the other, just as in the other example. it's kind of like cocaine to marijuana - they both are definitely drugs, but one is certainly far more damaging than the other. they're still both drugs though, right?
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Post by Halloween King on Oct 10, 2014 13:47:07 GMT -5
See this is beyond silly to me. It's like saying a person who swatted a child's behind is the same as a person who would closed fist punch a baby in the face. It's two different things. well, they're both physical violence brought upon an innocent child. one would certainly cause an extreme amount more damage than the other, just as in the other example. it's kind of like cocaine to marijuana - they both are definitely drugs, but one is certainly far more damaging than the other. they're still both drugs though, right? Drugs are both illegal so any discussion is against the TOS. I used a small swat to the tush of a child and compared it to a closed fist punch to the face of a baby because both are very different. Swatting a child will mostly get attention from the child. Punching a baby will end the babies life. Someone, like you, might see both acts as violence but there is a huge difference. If I were to use your logic a childs tricycle is the same as a Ferrari. Both roll on wheels, both allow you to sit as you ride. Using your logic they are both forms of transportation but it is beyond silly to say they are similar. If I were to use your logic me jumping up in the air is the same as flying on a Boeing 747, get serious man.
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Post by 0,Y on Oct 10, 2014 14:00:11 GMT -5
And with all due respect, that is YOUR opinion. The problem is, the Gospel message has been twisted. For example, people look at the groups who bash homosexuals and assume that is exactly what is taught and how all Christians are. I do not agree with the lifestyle and will stand up for that belief but I am not hateful in my actions. I have friends who live that lifestyle, they know I don't agree with it. Yet, we are still friends. I say that, to point out, that Westboro showing straight up hate towards the people who do these things, or who have served in wars ETC, are NOT representation of what the bible teaches. When the new covenant was given, we were given two commandments, that was to love God and to love others as we do ourselves. Showing outright hatred is not love. That is why I say that Westboro has it wrong. Sorry to jump in but what is that supposed to mean? You think homosexualty is wrong and you stand your ground on that topic but you don't punch gay people in the face and trashtalk them?
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Post by k5 on Oct 10, 2014 14:02:54 GMT -5
well, they're both physical violence brought upon an innocent child. one would certainly cause an extreme amount more damage than the other, just as in the other example. it's kind of like cocaine to marijuana - they both are definitely drugs, but one is certainly far more damaging than the other. they're still both drugs though, right? Drugs are both illegal so any discussion is against the TOS. I used a small swat to the tush of a child and compared it to a closed fist punch to the face of a baby because both are very different. Swatting a child will mostly get attention from the child. Punching a baby will end the babies life. Someone, like you, might see both acts as violence but there is a huge difference. If I were to use your logic a childs tricycle is the same as a Ferrari. Both roll on wheels, both allow you to sit as you ride. Using your logic they are both forms of transportation but it is beyond silly to say they are similar. If I were to use your logic me jumping up in the air is the same as flying on a Boeing 747, get serious man. certain things are comparable on levels with all those examples you made, while being gravely different in others. you seem to be understanding the examples without comprehending the point: boeing 747/jumping in the air - you're undeniably in the air in both circumstances. in one situation, you're in a plane and 1000s of miles above the ground while in the other you're only a few feet above the ground, but nevertheless, you're IN THE AIR. if you were to hit a kid's butt with your hand/forcibly punch a child - you're undeniably employing physical force against the child in both circumstances. in one situation, you're causing measurable damage to the child's physical well being let alone otherwise, while in the other it may not be so easy to see the amount of damage psychologically or otherwise until later in life, but nevertheless, you're EMPLOYING PHYSICAL FORCE. westboro baptist church/religious terrorist extremists - they're undeniably both brainwashed by religious doctrine in both circumstances. in one situation, they're committing terrible acts resulting in death and widespread fear, while in another they're a goofy group that offends people and are a force of hatred, but nevertheless, they are BOTH BRAINWASHED BY RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE. i don't understand what is difficult to grasp about that - it's kind of what the law calls physical assault. i could come up to you and flick you in the shoulder, or i could come up to you and punch you in the face - if you didn't ask for me to do either BOTH ARE PHYSICAL ASSAULT.
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Post by k5 on Oct 10, 2014 14:10:54 GMT -5
the problem is, that's just your opinion. i'm sure in the westboro baptist church they'd view your interpretations of christianity as 'having the message wrong'. this is a perfect example of what can happen when people use religion to dictate their direct beliefs and actions and believe that their religion gives them an authority on subjects. it's the same way priests have manipulated people into sex for thousands of years, countries have motivated people for war (with god on our side), hitler even claimed that the nazi party was a force of christianity. point being: when people shut their minds off and let religion do the thinking for them, bad stuff happens, no matter how large or small their group is. And with all due respect, that is YOUR opinion. The problem is, the Gospel message has been twisted. For example, people look at the groups who bash homosexuals and assume that is exactly what is taught and how all Christians are. I do not agree with the lifestyle and will stand up for that belief but I am not hateful in my actions. I have friends who live that lifestyle, they know I don't agree with it. Yet, we are still friends. I say that, to point out, that Westboro showing straight up hate towards the people who do these things, or who have served in wars ETC, are NOT representation of what the bible teaches. When the new covenant was given, we were given two commandments, that was to love God and to love others as we do ourselves. Showing outright hatred is not love. That is why I say that Westboro has it wrong. i've heard a lot of interpretations of said gospel, and each one seems to claim an authority in advising other's in how to live their lives, or sentencing them to a fiery damnation otherwise. that is not love, that is blatant judgement. why does your proverbs verse on discipline get 'carried over' from the old testament, as you put it? seems a bit pick and choosey to me.
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Post by Halloween King on Oct 10, 2014 18:56:15 GMT -5
Drugs are both illegal so any discussion is against the TOS. I used a small swat to the tush of a child and compared it to a closed fist punch to the face of a baby because both are very different. Swatting a child will mostly get attention from the child. Punching a baby will end the babies life. Someone, like you, might see both acts as violence but there is a huge difference. If I were to use your logic a childs tricycle is the same as a Ferrari. Both roll on wheels, both allow you to sit as you ride. Using your logic they are both forms of transportation but it is beyond silly to say they are similar. If I were to use your logic me jumping up in the air is the same as flying on a Boeing 747, get serious man. certain things are comparable on levels with all those examples you made, while being gravely different in others. you seem to be understanding the examples without comprehending the point: boeing 747/jumping in the air - you're undeniably in the air in both circumstances. in one situation, you're in a plane and 1000s of miles above the ground while in the other you're only a few feet above the ground, but nevertheless, you're IN THE AIR. if you were to hit a kid's butt with your hand/forcibly punch a child - you're undeniably employing physical force against the child in both circumstances. in one situation, you're causing measurable damage to the child's physical well being let alone otherwise, while in the other it may not be so easy to see the amount of damage psychologically or otherwise until later in life, but nevertheless, you're EMPLOYING PHYSICAL FORCE. westboro baptist church/religious terrorist extremists - they're undeniably both brainwashed by religious doctrine in both circumstances. in one situation, they're committing terrible acts resulting in death and widespread fear, while in another they're a goofy group that offends people and are a force of hatred, but nevertheless, they are BOTH BRAINWASHED BY RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE. i don't understand what is difficult to grasp about that - it's kind of what the law calls physical assault. i could come up to you and flick you in the shoulder, or i could come up to you and punch you in the face - if you didn't ask for me to do either BOTH ARE PHYSICAL ASSAULT. You're either playing around OR you have some issues.
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Post by Last Trent Barreta Fan on Oct 10, 2014 19:29:47 GMT -5
I was a victim of actual child abuse growing up, where my dad me so hard I blacked out, hit the end of a table and got a black eye. I got hit for something so minor, checking out a book at the library, when my dad told me not to. Too bad it was for an assignment. (Don't worry, I did end up reporting him and he went to court, got a night in jail, a hefty fine and 90 day anger management classes) He also tied my hands behind my back and duct taped my mouth shut (why, I can't remember, that is hazy to me. All I remember is being tied up) that's is so painful to remember I tear up thinking about it.
I had ADHD growing up, so I was a bratty little crap. I would kick and scream in stores, my mom pulled me by my ears out of the store. I deserved that. There is no excuse why a child should be kicking and screaming In a store, and looking back I realize I had no excuse for doing that.
My dad had other methods of discipline he would go to before he would be forced to spank- lectures, sentences, sitting in the corner, sent to my room, things being taken away, and when all that failed he would take a wooden spoon (and later plastic, because after awhile it broke) to my ass.
I would say half the times I got spanked whether it be by my dad or mom, I deserved it. I would spank my kids but only if they absolutely deserved it. it would be my absolute last resort as punishment.
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Post by Brad on Oct 11, 2014 0:45:10 GMT -5
And with all due respect, that is YOUR opinion. The problem is, the Gospel message has been twisted. For example, people look at the groups who bash homosexuals and assume that is exactly what is taught and how all Christians are. I do not agree with the lifestyle and will stand up for that belief but I am not hateful in my actions. I have friends who live that lifestyle, they know I don't agree with it. Yet, we are still friends. I say that, to point out, that Westboro showing straight up hate towards the people who do these things, or who have served in wars ETC, are NOT representation of what the bible teaches. When the new covenant was given, we were given two commandments, that was to love God and to love others as we do ourselves. Showing outright hatred is not love. That is why I say that Westboro has it wrong. Sorry to jump in but what is that supposed to mean? You think homosexualty is wrong and you stand your ground on that topic but you don't punch gay people in the face and trashtalk them? It means that I think the lifestyle is wrong but I still care for the person. I won't talk bad about them as members of Westboro would. I'd simply point them to why I disagree with the lifestyle.
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Post by Brad on Oct 11, 2014 0:48:50 GMT -5
And with all due respect, that is YOUR opinion. The problem is, the Gospel message has been twisted. For example, people look at the groups who bash homosexuals and assume that is exactly what is taught and how all Christians are. I do not agree with the lifestyle and will stand up for that belief but I am not hateful in my actions. I have friends who live that lifestyle, they know I don't agree with it. Yet, we are still friends. I say that, to point out, that Westboro showing straight up hate towards the people who do these things, or who have served in wars ETC, are NOT representation of what the bible teaches. When the new covenant was given, we were given two commandments, that was to love God and to love others as we do ourselves. Showing outright hatred is not love. That is why I say that Westboro has it wrong. i've heard a lot of interpretations of said gospel, and each one seems to claim an authority in advising other's in how to live their lives, or sentencing them to a fiery damnation otherwise. that is not love, that is blatant judgement. why does your proverbs verse on discipline get 'carried over' from the old testament, as you put it? seems a bit pick and choosey to me. I could explain to you why I do not believe a persons actions is what would subject them to, as you put it "fiery damnation" but I have a feeling it'd cause the thread to be locked. You're welcome to PM me. I'm not bashing anyone. Nor am I mad. I am simply doing my best to explain why I feel the way I do.
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Post by 0,Y on Oct 11, 2014 3:54:31 GMT -5
Sorry to jump in but what is that supposed to mean? You think homosexualty is wrong and you stand your ground on that topic but you don't punch gay people in the face and trashtalk them? It means that I think the lifestyle is wrong but I still care for the person. I won't talk bad about them as members of Westboro would. I'd simply point them to why I disagree with the lifestyle. Well that's alot better than many hateful morons but I still don't get how homosexuality is a lifestyle. It's not a choice a person makes like buying a house or gambling away all his money. One doesn't choose to be gay, it just happens.
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