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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 5, 2014 11:45:03 GMT -5
So Chelsea look a certainty for the title. They've already got a point from their hardest game (City away), and they generally look unstoppable. In fact, there's a chance they could go unbeaten, as they seem to have tidied up the complacency of last year. I don't think they will, but I can't pinpoint a specific game where they seem likely to lose. One of my mates suggested that if they did they would be the greatest side in PL history, but I'm not so sure. Assuming they go unbeaten in the PL but don't win the CL (a big assumption I know, but the basis of our argument was them going unbeaten, and surely Real/Barca/Bayern are better still in Europe), here's my top 5 greatest PL teams:
5. Chelsea 14-15 - Great side, strong core, no real weak links. Going unbeaten (if they did) very impressive. However, their competition is pathetic compared to what the four teams ahead of them faced - stick them in 2008 and they'd definitely compete, but no chance go unbeaten and its unlikely they even win it. A strong side nonetheless, and were they to go unbeaten, even in this weak Premier League, they would have to be respected as a great team.
4. Chelsea 04-05 - Just a shade more solid and well-rounded than the team of 14-15. Had stiffer competition than the current Chelsea incarnation (albeit not as strong as the high point of 2007-2009, where the PL dominated Europe), and rarely lost anyway. Unlucky not to get further in the CL. Lose points for not having the same attacking flair of the 3 sides above them.
3. Arsenal 03-04 - Unbeaten side that many look to as the team to beat for the title of 'greatest PL team ever'. Fantastic core with Viera marshalling the team, and probably the second most talented player ever to grace the PL in Henry (Ronaldo edges him). Wenger will look back at this season as a missed opportunity to do the treble, especially with regards to the CL, which was rather weak this year. Competition maybe a tad weaker than 07-09 and 97-99, but still fairly strong.
2. Manchester United 07-08 - Fantastic side that played great attacking football whilst also having arguably the greatest PL centre-back pairing in defence. Up front Rooney and Tevez interchanged with the most talented player in Premier League history, who scored an incredible 41 goals this season. Interestingly, Frank Lampard claims the Chelsea team of this season were even better than their 04/05 incarnation; they just happened to be edged out by this special United side.
1. Manchester United 98-99 - At the end of the day, nothing can compete with the treble as an achievement. Truly spectacular, and this side also did it with fantastic attacking ambition that was easy on the eye. If Chelsea were to win the treble this season then they would have to move up to #2 on this list, but even then they probably couldn't edge out the raw talent of this side. A midfield 4 of Giggs-Keane-Scholes-Beckham is unmatched in the PL era, and they probably have the best GK in Premier League history as well. Strikers' partnership is deadly (although they lack the raw talent of other attackers on this list such as Ronaldo, Henry, Drogba and maybe even Costa), but crucially the squad was also brilliant, with backups such as Butt, Solskjaer and Sheringham meaning they're not only the best team in PL history, but the best squad.
Thoughts? I can see people arguing about the placement of the teams below them, but can we all agree that Utd 98-99 are top? SAF did say he thought 07-08 were better when they won in Moscow, but maybe hindsight made him change his mind back to '99.
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Post by Brunt's Left Foot on Oct 5, 2014 12:22:49 GMT -5
I was thinking about this earlier, I'm not sure where Chelsea could lose. They don't seem to be slipping up against the smaller teams and their tactics are too good for the top teams.
If Chelsea did go unbeaten (I don't think they will) I'd agree with your top five but not sure about the order. It's very difficult, all would have had great achievements. I think really it boils down to the question of:
Which is more impressive, winning the Champions League or going a whole league season unbeaten? I think I'd have to say going unbeaten. Some not so awesome teams have won the CL over the years while only two teams ever have completed the latter.
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Post by wyleecyotee on Oct 5, 2014 12:42:55 GMT -5
So far they look awesome, but there is a whole winter to come. With massive fixture pile up, inevitable injuries and forms dipping, it will be interesting to see how the adapt and evolve through the season.
There definately my tip to win the league but there will always be a game that goes against them.
Can't really go on the best prem teams of all time, you list seems decent enough but I'd put arsenal top because they did the unbeaten season.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 5, 2014 12:48:07 GMT -5
I was thinking about this earlier, I'm not sure where Chelsea could lose. They don't seem to be slipping up against the smaller teams and their tactics are too good for the top teams. If Chelsea did go unbeaten (I don't think they will) I'd agree with your top five but not sure about the order. It's very difficult, all would have had great achievements. I think really it boils down to the question of: Which is more impressive, winning the Champions League or going a whole league season unbeaten? I think I'd have to say going unbeaten. Some not so awesome teams have won the CL over the years while only two teams ever have completed the latter. I'd say doing a CL & PL double is more impressive. CL can be much more competitve (there's at least 3 teams better than any PL team, and a couple more probably on the level of Chelsea), and fighting Tues/Weds then again on Sat can be very tiring; just look at how often people point to Liverpool only focusing on the PL as a huge factor in them coming 2nd last year. Arsenal in 04/Chelsea in 15 were/would obviously be in multiple competitions, but its another thing to win multiple competitions. Going unbeaten is very impressive, but especially when the PL is weak I think the CL/PL double is harder. Its true a few meh teams have won the CL, but that's the way with a cup competition. Its true that the league is usually a better indicator than the cup of talent (I can't think of a time when the most deserving team hasn't won the league really, but certainly not so for the CL), but two competitions is surely a better indicator than one. Also, look at it from a players perspective: would you rather an unbeaten season or a CL medal to join that PL one? I think players would pick winning two top competitions over winning one in style every time. At the end of the day, Arsenal players from 2004 have just one medal, no matter how well they won it, whereas United players from 1999 have 3. I know which position I'd rather be in. |
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 5, 2014 12:54:04 GMT -5
So far they look awesome, but there is a whole winter to come. With massive fixture pile up, inevitable injuries and forms dipping, it will be interesting to see how the adapt and evolve through the season. There definately my tip to win the league but there will always be a game that goes against them. Can't really go on the best prem teams of all time, you list seems decent enough but I'd put arsenal top because they did the unbeaten season. They were a great team, but I do think they rode their luck a bit. 12/38 games were draws, and they were dissapointing in other competitions. Their points total (90) has also been beaten by multiple other teams in 38 game PL seasons. Compare that to losing a few games in the PL but winning 1 or 2 other trophies and I think you'd have to take the team that won the trophies. Arsenal going unbeaten was mad, but United of 99 got past teams like Bayern, Barcelona and Juventus as well as winning the PL and the FA Cup. That's just more impressive imo. |
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AV1
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 15, 2008 9:04:59 GMT -5
Posts: 2,870
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Post by AV1 on Oct 5, 2014 15:05:49 GMT -5
I only started watching the Premier League around 02/03 so can't say the Utd team of 1999, although what the achieved was fantastic. I'd probably say the Arsenal team of 03/04.
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Post by wyleecyotee on Oct 5, 2014 15:15:24 GMT -5
So far they look awesome, but there is a whole winter to come. With massive fixture pile up, inevitable injuries and forms dipping, it will be interesting to see how the adapt and evolve through the season. There definately my tip to win the league but there will always be a game that goes against them. Can't really go on the best prem teams of all time, you list seems decent enough but I'd put arsenal top because they did the unbeaten season. They were a great team, but I do think they rode their luck a bit. 12/38 games were draws, and they were dissapointing in other competitions. Their points total (90) has also been beaten by multiple other teams in 38 game PL seasons. Compare that to losing a few games in the PL but winning 1 or 2 other trophies and I think you'd have to take the team that won the trophies. Arsenal going unbeaten was mad, but United of 99 got past teams like Bayern, Barcelona and Juventus as well as winning the PL and the FA Cup. That's just more impressive imo. Can't argue with your points to be fair. There's a lot that's unaccounted for like luck, the standard of football science and the quality throughout the leagues and competitions. I think if Chelsea win the league this year, they still won't be top. Liverpool massively weakens, united still transitioning despite an awesome group of players. Arsenal still not a solid threat. City are the only ones that compare to Chelsea throughout at the moment but they lack the history and for some reason they never seem up for the champions league so there far off being on any list for me. |
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Post by Dan on Oct 16, 2014 12:24:19 GMT -5
In terms of how good Squads and Sides were, I'd actually say that both the United and Chelsea Sides that played in Moscow would of beaten the United 99 Side. The United 99 Treble Side was great, and had a great journey, but tactically in this modern day Game they wouldn't be able to match those two Sides, in my opinion. Back in the late nineties and early 00's, every top side in Europe pretty much played a flat 4-4-2, and all played there own open Game. The Game has since evolved so much. United of 08 were so solid at the back but so dynamic going forward. Chelsea were probably the most complete and strong I think we've ever been, and virtually every one of those Players for both United and Chelsea were at there absolute peak age of 23-27. I think Arsenal of 97/98 was a real top Side too, with the English back 5.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 16, 2014 16:31:35 GMT -5
In terms of how good Squads and Sides were, I'd actually say that both the United and Chelsea Sides that played in Moscow would of beaten the United 99 Side. The United 99 Treble Side was great, and had a great journey, but tactically in this modern day Game they wouldn't be able to match those two Sides, in my opinion. Back in the late nineties and early 00's, every top side in Europe pretty much played a flat 4-4-2, and all played there own open Game. The Game has since evolved so much. United of 08 were so solid at the back but so dynamic going forward. Chelsea were probably the most complete and strong I think we've ever been, and virtually every one of those Players for both United and Chelsea were at there absolute peak age of 23-27. I think Arsenal of 97/98 was a real top Side too, with the English back 5. Sometimes I agree. Fergie reckons 08 Utd > 99 Utd and Lampard thinks 08 Chelsea were the best team he was ever in. I go back and forth on which one is better. |
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Post by Dan on Oct 17, 2014 13:16:01 GMT -5
In terms of how good Squads and Sides were, I'd actually say that both the United and Chelsea Sides that played in Moscow would of beaten the United 99 Side. The United 99 Treble Side was great, and had a great journey, but tactically in this modern day Game they wouldn't be able to match those two Sides, in my opinion. Back in the late nineties and early 00's, every top side in Europe pretty much played a flat 4-4-2, and all played there own open Game. The Game has since evolved so much. United of 08 were so solid at the back but so dynamic going forward. Chelsea were probably the most complete and strong I think we've ever been, and virtually every one of those Players for both United and Chelsea were at there absolute peak age of 23-27. I think Arsenal of 97/98 was a real top Side too, with the English back 5. Sometimes I agree. Fergie reckons 08 Utd > 99 Utd and Lampard thinks 08 Chelsea were the best team he was ever in. I go back and forth on which one is better. You probably tend to favour the 99 Side as it was so special and was a major part when growing up. In reality though, Player for Player, system for system, 08 was a lot better. Main Manchester United Squad 98-99Peter Schmeichel Dennis Irwin Ronny Johnsen Jaap Stam David May Gary Neville Ryan Giggs Paul Scholes Nicky Butt Roy Keane David Beckham Jasper Blomqvist Andy Cole Dwight Yorke Teddy Sheringham Ole Gunner Solskjaer In comparison with; Main Manchester United Squad 07-08Edwin Van der Sar Patrice Evra Rio Ferdinand Nemanja Vidic Wes Brown Ryan Giggs Paul Scholes Michael Carrick Owen Hargreaves Park Ji Sung Nani Cristiano Ronaldo Wayne Rooney Carlos Tevez Main Chelsea Squad 07-08Petr Cech Ashley Cole John Terry Ricardo Carvalho Paulo Ferreira Juliano Belletti Branislav Ivanovic Frank Lampard Michael Ballack Claude Makelele Michael Essien Joe Cole Florent Malouda Didier Drogba Andre Shevchenko Nicolas Anelka Claudio Pizarro Salomon Kalou That 99 United Side was always a flat 4-4-2, just rotating Players. 07/08 could play 4-3-3 with a dynamic interchanging Ronaldo, Rooney and Tevez, it could play 4-4-2, it had experience with Van Der Sar, Giggs and a better Paul Scholes, and a back four at their peak. Chelsea of 08 had a spine of Cech, Terry, Lampard and Drogba all at there absolute prime, and had huge European experience with Ballack, Shevchenko, Belletti etc. We played the Diamond with Essien/Makelele holding, Lampard and Ballack, then Joe Cole at the top, or we could play 4-2-3-1, 4-5-1 etc. Both actual sides superior to United of 99 in my opinion, despite us coming Runners Up in 3 Competitions that year and United doing the Double not the Treble. |
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