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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 30, 2014 12:03:06 GMT -5
I enjoyed his RR win and push......I realised that it was because of Eddie and I was ok with that. However....... His title win was hampered from Day 1. His triumphant moment came in a match that was nearly as long as Cena & HHH's(especially HHHs) bloated entrances @ that years WM...... Plus all the sh*t out Orton's mouth about Guerrero was just cheap.....even though Vince and Steph"wise beyond her chest size" no doubt thought it was aces. Then as Champ he was fed to the useless and already disposable Henry and then later Khali....... Surely Rey was not going to succeed after this? Some very confusing booking IMO. Oh the booking was God-awful. Honestly in my mind it edges out Jericho in 2002 as the worst booked world title run this century. What I didn't understand was people, rather than blaming the booking and arguing it should have been done differently (which I agree with), saying instead that it should never have been done at any time and that Rey didn't deserve it. IMO Rey was highly deserving purely because he was so over, never mind the fact that he was a great worker and a great role model as well.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 12:17:18 GMT -5
I enjoyed his RR win and push......I realised that it was because of Eddie and I was ok with that. However....... His title win was hampered from Day 1. His triumphant moment came in a match that was nearly as long as Cena & HHH's(especially HHHs) bloated entrances @ that years WM...... Plus all the sh*t out Orton's mouth about Guerrero was just cheap.....even though Vince and Steph"wise beyond her chest size" no doubt thought it was aces. Then as Champ he was fed to the useless and already disposable Henry and then later Khali....... Surely Rey was not going to succeed after this? Some very confusing booking IMO. Oh the booking was God-awful. Honestly in my mind it edges out Jericho in 2002 as the worst booked world title run this century. What I didn't understand was people, rather than blaming the booking and arguing it should have been done differently (which I agree with), saying instead that it should never have been done at any time and that Rey didn't deserve it. IMO Rey was highly deserving purely because he was so over, never mind the fact that he was a great worker and a great role model as well. Jericho in 2002 will always be worse for me Mike. At least Rey was not a bystander in the feuds he had. Vince, Steph & HHH should be ashamed of themselves for the way the first WM contest for the Undisputed title was booked. Nobody cared about their sh*t match because the Feud was HHH vs Steph. Jericho actually cleaned up dogsh*t......how could anybody buy him the way he was booked against HHH? Im surprised the match wasn't a squash to be honest. Now back to Rey.....yeah he deserved it.....he was over as hell & had the merch sales to prove it.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 30, 2014 13:39:21 GMT -5
Oh the booking was God-awful. Honestly in my mind it edges out Jericho in 2002 as the worst booked world title run this century. What I didn't understand was people, rather than blaming the booking and arguing it should have been done differently (which I agree with), saying instead that it should never have been done at any time and that Rey didn't deserve it. IMO Rey was highly deserving purely because he was so over, never mind the fact that he was a great worker and a great role model as well. Jericho in 2002 will always be worse for me Mike. At least Rey was not a bystander in the feuds he had. Vince, Steph & HHH should be ashamed of themselves for the way the first WM contest for the Undisputed title was booked. Nobody cared about their sh*t match because the Feud was HHH vs Steph. Jericho actually cleaned up dogsh*t......how could anybody buy him the way he was booked against HHH? Im surprised the match wasn't a squash to be honest. Now back to Rey.....yeah he deserved it.....he was over as hell & had the merch sales to prove it. Jericho's was awful I agree, but at least he was always facing top calibre opponents, and at times looked like a champion. I know he had interference at RR 2002 to beat Rocky, but Rock did make him look good imo, and although Austin-Jericho at NWO 2002 wasn't that great Jericho did at least look good at times vs. one of the greatest ever. From what I can remember, Rey won the title in a criminally quick match, promptly got slapped around by JBL for 2 months (who was good but hardly the calibre of the opponents Jericho mostly held up against), barely beat him (and wouldn't have if JBL hadn't retired) and then lost to Booker next PPV. He never once looked remotely like a champion because of the awful booking. Like Jericho's scenario its also 10x more frustrating because it was so preventable. There are certain guys who will never seem like world champions no matter what you do, but both these guys were talented and over. The crowd cared about them one way or the other and they could create interesting feuds and matches with a variety of potential opponents. Instead Rey got destroyed for no good reason at all, and Jericho got put on the sidelines when he could have easily been the key player. Both are terrible though, and I suppose trying to decide which was worse is just splitting hairs. Also on Jericho, I wonder how much of it was Vince? We know Vince didn't always think the best of Chris but Jericho's book makes it clear that for the most part he was one of the guys in the office actually backing him. We tend to blame Vince for this particular booking catastrophe but I wonder if it was other guys chipping away at Jericho and saying "well if we have to put him in the main event, lets shift focus away from him" until Vince agreed. Both are a real shame. The guys were talented and could have easily been credible champions. You can even keep the date and opponents they lost the title to, just don't weaken them so much. It would have increased the value of both their reigns and the victories their opponents had over them. Making your opponent look strong is literally wrestling 101, so I have no idea why WWE would devalue their own champions like that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2014 14:22:28 GMT -5
Oh I think there was a certain amount of insecurity on HHH's part surrounding his return as a face. He may have been pushed as such but was NOT the top face in the company(Austin & Rock were).....and this scenario with Jericho did NOT help. Nobody wanted to see HHH feud with Stephanie......her character was played out on TV and needed way more of a break than it got.
Really..... by WM the novelty of HHH as a face had worn off and he knew it himself which is why he requested to return to heeldom after his loss to Hogan......Something Vince did NOT listen to his daughter about. To this day due to whispering in Vince's ears(and his rapidly panicking about ratings falling off the cliff)I believe that he was blamed for ratings. Perhaps if Vince/Steph had created scenarios on TV that folks wanted to see? ratings wouldn't have been dying.
now back to Rey.......I agree with your assessment of how he was booked Mike....it was friggin terrible. how a few competitive PPVs against Booker with Booker beating Rey in cage match to win the title wouldn't have helped I don't know. But then again booker was only keeping it warm for Dave when he returned.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Oct 30, 2014 17:16:23 GMT -5
I would have actually been interested in a Batista vs. Rey face vs. face match. Rey would have been more over, but I don't think Batista would be getting booed or anything in mid-2006. It could have been really interesting as a one off, and a good way to end Rey's run if they had booked it right.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2014 15:18:07 GMT -5
Hated it every time.
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Post by rustyy on Nov 6, 2014 3:59:55 GMT -5
Same reason people want the cruiserweight title back -- they don't think the small wrestlers should ever hold the major titles. I always see people with that mentality but it's 2014 and people need to get over that dated idea. I want the cruiser weight belt back too though, so I can see the flippy spot fest wrestling that I love. Plus, it would give more people something to do, and it gets over cause of the style. Win/Win. Me too, I especially hated him winning the belt and losing it in the same night. They should have just had Cena win if they really wanted to go that route. His first reign was a nice moment when he won but it was all down hill from there.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Nov 6, 2014 6:44:30 GMT -5
I want the cruiser weight belt back too though, so I can see the flippy spot fest wrestling that I love. Yup, putting the smaller wrestlers into their own weight class and reinforcing that they're not good enough for the heavyweight title is a win win. Except: Plus lol. Do you think Justin Gabriel can only wrestle Sin Cara if there's a cruiserweight title?
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Post by rustyy on Nov 6, 2014 7:09:50 GMT -5
I want the cruiser weight belt back too though, so I can see the flippy spot fest wrestling that I love. Yup, putting the smaller wrestlers into their own weight class and reinforcing that they're not good enough for the heavyweight title is a win win. Except: Plus lol. Do you think Justin Gabriel can only wrestle Sin Cara if there's a cruiserweight title? I didn't say lock them in, just give the people like Justin Gabriel and Tyson Kidd a place to get known and be on TV. If they get over, let them break out and take the next step. It's a better way to get people over then just a random match with no rhyme or reason behind it. I meant its a win win in the fact people love the style and its a money maker, and it gives talent that wouldn't be used otherwise a chance to shine.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 7:15:03 GMT -5
Yup, putting the smaller wrestlers into their own weight class and reinforcing that they're not good enough for the heavyweight title is a win win. Except: Plus lol. Do you think Justin Gabriel can only wrestle Sin Cara if there's a cruiserweight title? I didn't say lock them in, just give the people like Justin Gabriel and Tyson Kidd a place to get known and be on TV. If they get over, let them break out and take the next step. It's a better way to get people over then just a random match with no rhyme or reason behind it. I meant its a win win in the fact people love the style and its a money maker, and it gives talent that wouldn't be used otherwise a chance to shine. I agree with you man. It could be a useful tool in the potential elevation of stars..... I don't understand why this idea is met with such sarcastic venom every time its brought up.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Nov 6, 2014 7:29:08 GMT -5
I meant its a win win in the fact people love the style and its a money maker, and it gives talent that wouldn't be used otherwise a chance to shine. Source for it being a money maker? Tyson Kidd and Justin Gabriel aren't magically going to be the stars of Raw just because a new belt gets made for them -- and making a belt for people nobody cares about (both backstage and in the audience) is one of the stupidest ideas in the world. If people aren't good enough to be regulars on anything higher than Superstars and Main Event, they don't deserve their own special jobber belt unless they make one themselves, like Zack Ryder. Here you go, just imagine this is a best of a thousand series for a special jobber belt:
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Dante, The Voc
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Post by Dante, The Voc on Nov 6, 2014 7:42:59 GMT -5
They may have had a short match but Rey/Orton/Angle was really good.
The four months that succeeded that match? Hm....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 8:49:40 GMT -5
I meant its a win win in the fact people love the style and its a money maker, and it gives talent that wouldn't be used otherwise a chance to shine. Source for it being a money maker? Tyson Kidd and Justin Gabriel aren't magically going to be the stars of Raw just because a new belt gets made for them -- and making a belt for people nobody cares about (both backstage and in the audience) is one of the stupidest ideas in the world. If people aren't good enough to be regulars on anything higher than Superstars and Main Event, they don't deserve their own special jobber belt unless they make one themselves, like Zack Ryder. Here you go, just imagine this is a best of a thousand series for a special jobber belt: LOL....this whole cruiserweight thing really annoys the sh*t out of you doesn't it?
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Nov 6, 2014 10:11:52 GMT -5
LOL....this whole cruiserweight thing really annoys the sh*t out of you doesn't it? Yup, all stupidity either annoys me or makes me laugh. This one annoys me for the sheer relentlessness of it. It requires a minus IQ for people to come out with it in the modern era when Mysterio, Punk, Bryan etc are former world champions. There's no point putting wrestlers like Daniel Bryan in a cruiserweight ghetto, and there's no point rewarding guys who aren't good enough to even fight for the oh-so-prestigious US and IC belts by giving them their own little belt. It's just kids repeating nonsense they heard idiots say years ago.
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TheXtremisT
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Post by TheXtremisT on Nov 6, 2014 10:53:24 GMT -5
Nah I think it has it's place in today's wrestling. A budding young/smaller wrestler can carve his niche in that department before (if he's good enough) moving on up the divisions. It can create better matches with more prestige for the title if done correctly - and that's an art not done well today. Chase the title, create decent ranking blah blah blah ... it can elevate new stars. Just need a division and not 3 guys who fit the bill.
It's not like the cruiserweight division will now become 180lbs or lighter because of world champions like Bryan, Punk or Mysterio. Just evolve it and roll with the times, like the X division did till '08. It had no limits, and did wonders for TNA and actually (although just an extension of the cruiser division), was ahead of its time.
Time to bring it back.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 11:04:41 GMT -5
LOL....this whole cruiserweight thing really annoys the sh*t out of you doesn't it? Yup, all stupidity either annoys me or makes me laugh. This one annoys me for the sheer relentlessness of it. It requires a minus IQ for people to come out with it in the modern era when Mysterio, Punk, Bryan etc are former world champions. There's no point putting wrestlers like Daniel Bryan in a cruiserweight ghetto, and there's no point rewarding guys who aren't good enough to even fight for the oh-so-prestigious US and IC belts by giving them their own little belt. It's just kids repeating nonsense they heard idiots say years ago. Dear oh dear....minus iqs, idiots & stupidity all used in a post over difference of opinions. Hmmm.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Nov 6, 2014 11:28:38 GMT -5
Yup, all stupidity either annoys me or makes me laugh. This one annoys me for the sheer relentlessness of it. It requires a minus IQ for people to come out with it in the modern era when Mysterio, Punk, Bryan etc are former world champions. There's no point putting wrestlers like Daniel Bryan in a cruiserweight ghetto, and there's no point rewarding guys who aren't good enough to even fight for the oh-so-prestigious US and IC belts by giving them their own little belt. It's just kids repeating nonsense they heard idiots say years ago. Dear oh dear....minus iqs, idiots & stupidity all used in a post over difference of opinions. Hmmm. Well, you asked about the cruiserweight thing annoying me. I explained. Even Meltzer, who basically fathered the entire set of opinions that the "bring back da cruzers" kids all hold, had this to say on it:
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2014 11:39:49 GMT -5
Dear oh dear....minus iqs, idiots & stupidity all used in a post over difference of opinions. Hmmm. Well, you asked about the cruiserweight thing annoying me. I explained. Even Meltzer, who basically fathered the entire set of opinions that the "bring back da cruzers" kids all hold, had this to say on it: yes that I did!! well in off to see the WWE in Dublin now...meeting the boys for a pint then onwards towards a hopefully good show?
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Post by k5 on Nov 6, 2014 11:58:33 GMT -5
I meant its a win win in the fact people love the style and its a money maker, and it gives talent that wouldn't be used otherwise a chance to shine. Source for it being a money maker? Tyson Kidd and Justin Gabriel aren't magically going to be the stars of Raw just because a new belt gets made for them -- and making a belt for people nobody cares about (both backstage and in the audience) is one of the stupidest ideas in the world. If people aren't good enough to be regulars on anything higher than Superstars and Main Event, they don't deserve their own special jobber belt unless they make one themselves, like Zack Ryder. source for it being one of the stupidest ideas in the world? otherwise that's just your opinion, silly. cruiserweights don't have to be marketed as a second rate division. when austin aries cashed in the x division title for a shot at the world title, no one was thinking 'ah man, a cruiserweight? he's not good enough!' if the focus was put on high performance matches, with the tag words being exciting and dare devil and all those hype words, i believe it would succeed.
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Post by Next Man’s Yeeter on Nov 6, 2014 12:06:20 GMT -5
well in off to see the WWE in Dublin now...meeting the boys for a pint then onwards towards a hopefully good show? Have a good one! Which roster is it, the Cena/Rollins one? (I'm assuming so as Sheamus is on that one I think)
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