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Post by Rule 30 on Jun 10, 2015 13:58:02 GMT -5
Out of interest, may I ask why? She's quite unpopular among the GoT fans I know. A few girls I know like her as a strong female character, but they agree that she isn't a competent leader. Dragons! But I would argue Dany is easily one of the most popular characters on the show, even though she has considerable more hate than Tyrion and Jon. Personally I've always liked her more than any other ruler because of her compassion and empathy, but she also doesn't take any sh*t from her enemies. And I think with good advisers like Tyrion and Varys by her side she is easily the best candidate for the throne. Jon Snow is by far my favorite character on the show, but I could never see him taking the throne for himself. He'll probably die on the Wall.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Jun 11, 2015 14:53:29 GMT -5
Out of interest, may I ask why? She's quite unpopular among the GoT fans I know. A few girls I know like her as a strong female character, but they agree that she isn't a competent leader. Dragons! But I would argue Dany is easily one of the most popular characters on the show, even though she has considerable more hate than Tyrion and Jon. Personally I've always liked her more than any other ruler because of her compassion and empathy, but she also doesn't take any sh*t from her enemies. And I think with good advisers like Tyrion and Varys by her side she is easily the best candidate for the throne. Jon Snow is by far my favorite character on the show, but I could never see him taking the throne for himself. He'll probably die on the Wall. She is a popular character, but I just don't know anyone personally who really likes her. I get she doesn't take sh*t, but to me she just isn't a good ruler. She constantly acts without any thought for the consequences, and she is hell-bent on her own rule with anyone who challenges her instantly being killed. She wants to be a dictator. Now I'm not exactly expecting a representative democracy in Westeros, but that doesn't mean she should just swan in and kill all competent men and women in the great houses because she can. She also has no 'right' to the throne any more than anyone else has (as both Jorah and Ser Barristan point out to her in vain), and she is deluded that all the commoners wait for her return. She also sees a very grey world in black and white, hating people such as the Starks who in reality are better than her and had a very good reason for turning on her bat-sh*t crazy father who she defended for four seasons. Tyrion, Varys and Jorah may help (though I think Grey Worm and Missendei are useless) but she could very easily be unreasonable with them, and in the case of Jorah already has been. I don't know whether you've read the books, or know the R+L=J theory, so I'll try not to say anything (after Monday Jon's story will be caught up with the books anyway), but Jon is definitely a viable candidate for the throne IMO.
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Post by Rule 30 on Jun 11, 2015 15:04:04 GMT -5
Dragons! But I would argue Dany is easily one of the most popular characters on the show, even though she has considerable more hate than Tyrion and Jon. Personally I've always liked her more than any other ruler because of her compassion and empathy, but she also doesn't take any sh*t from her enemies. And I think with good advisers like Tyrion and Varys by her side she is easily the best candidate for the throne. Jon Snow is by far my favorite character on the show, but I could never see him taking the throne for himself. He'll probably die on the Wall. She is a popular character, but I just don't know anyone personally who really likes her. I get she doesn't take sh*t, but to me she just isn't a good ruler. She constantly acts without any thought for the consequences, and she is hell-bent on her own rule with anyone who challenges her instantly being killed. She wants to be a dictator. Now I'm not exactly expecting a representative democracy in Westeros, but that doesn't mean she should just swan in and kill all competent men and women in the great houses because she can. She also has no 'right' to the throne any more than anyone else has (as both Jorah and Ser Barristan point out to her in vain), and she is deluded that all the commoners wait for her return. She also sees a very grey world in black and white, hating people such as the Starks who in reality are better than her and had a very good reason for turning on her bat-sh*t crazy father who she defended for four seasons. Tyrion, Varys and Jorah may help (though I think Grey Worm and Missendei are useless) but she could very easily be unreasonable with them, and in the case of Jorah already has been. I don't know whether you've read the books, or know the R+L=J theory, so I'll try not to say anything (after Monday Jon's story will be caught up with the books anyway), but Jon is definitely a viable candidate for the throne IMO. I'm only an A Clash of Kings at the moment, but I'm well aware of R+L=J. However judging by Jon's character I could never seen him taking the throne. He is too honorable and will most likely die as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Personally, I think Dany is beginning to realize that her perception of the world has is false after having her it. skewed by her brother for fifteen years. This season she's come to terms that her father was a terrible man, she has let Jorah back into the fold, and she's even allowed a Lannister into her council. She still has a long way to go, however, and much to learn about being a ruler. Which, in my opinion, has always been a center point of her arc. Arguably Stannis is the only one as of now with a legitimate claim to the throne, but he's too stubborn and brutal for his own good. If he continues the path he's on now and wins the Iron Throne, he'd be known as Stannis the Mad. I think we all know Ser Pounce would be the best ruler anyway. Meow.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Jun 11, 2015 15:31:43 GMT -5
She is a popular character, but I just don't know anyone personally who really likes her. I get she doesn't take sh*t, but to me she just isn't a good ruler. She constantly acts without any thought for the consequences, and she is hell-bent on her own rule with anyone who challenges her instantly being killed. She wants to be a dictator. Now I'm not exactly expecting a representative democracy in Westeros, but that doesn't mean she should just swan in and kill all competent men and women in the great houses because she can. She also has no 'right' to the throne any more than anyone else has (as both Jorah and Ser Barristan point out to her in vain), and she is deluded that all the commoners wait for her return. She also sees a very grey world in black and white, hating people such as the Starks who in reality are better than her and had a very good reason for turning on her bat-sh*t crazy father who she defended for four seasons. Tyrion, Varys and Jorah may help (though I think Grey Worm and Missendei are useless) but she could very easily be unreasonable with them, and in the case of Jorah already has been. I don't know whether you've read the books, or know the R+L=J theory, so I'll try not to say anything (after Monday Jon's story will be caught up with the books anyway), but Jon is definitely a viable candidate for the throne IMO. I'm only an A Clash of Kings at the moment, but I'm well aware of R+L=J. However judging by Jon's character I could never seen him taking the throne. He is too honorable and will most likely die as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch. Personally, I think Dany is beginning to realize that her perception of the world has is false after having her it. skewed by her brother for fifteen years. This season she's come to terms that her father was a terrible man, she has let Jorah back into the fold, and she's even allowed a Lannister into her council. She still has a long way to go, however, and much to learn about being a ruler. Which, in my opinion, has always been a center point of her arc. Arguably Stannis is the only one as of now with a legitimate claim to the throne, but he's too stubborn and brutal for his own good. If he continues the path he's on now and wins the Iron Throne, he'd be known as Stannis the Mad. I think we all know Ser Pounce would be the best ruler anyway. Meow. I'll reply to this after the last episode because my response will make more sense in the light of future events. I shan't say more than that for fear of spoilers. I'm sure you will be on tenderhooks waiting for my detailed reply. What I will say on Dany though is that we disagree over her overall arc. Whilst you see it as her maturing as a ruler, I think it is her slowly descending into madness and following her father and brother before her (though perhaps not quite as mad). There's evidence for both theories at this stage and it'll be interesting to see what happens. I certainly think mine is more in line with GoT lore and the way that world works. I do think Stannis has the most legitimate claim to the throne, but like you say burning his daughter was probably a point of no return in the world's perception of him (as well as destroying his own line and confirming the eventual destruction of the Baratheons, which is a shame as I think they're one of the best houses - who doesn't love Robert?!). Ser Pounce would indeed be wise and just.
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Post by mrhoss on Jun 14, 2015 20:57:21 GMT -5
Walk of Shame
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 21:39:40 GMT -5
No words...
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Post by punksnotdead on Jun 14, 2015 23:41:03 GMT -5
Killing the most pivotal character on the show as a plot device is terrible writing. Everyone involved should be ashamed. If this was a one week wait, so be it, but not at the end of a season.
Let us speak in hypotheticals. If he's really done, and dead, the show is over for me. I'm canceling HBO and I'll just move on with my life, and just read how it ends at some point on Wikipedia. Conversely, if he's not dead, and Melisandre can save him, then you've betrayed my emotional trust as a viewer. Now, moving forward, there isn't a death I'll take seriously or won't second guess. Maybe it's the only situation in which a character gets a mulligan, which we know isn't true from the books, but even then you'll have to convince me deaths are real when they do happen, which is pathetic.
I mean seriously, as if the audience of this show hasn't been through enough?
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Post by sonstuds on Jun 15, 2015 0:05:59 GMT -5
At least Ser Davos dodged that bullet.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Jun 15, 2015 0:07:58 GMT -5
Killing the most pivotal character on the show as a plot device is terrible writing. Everyone involved should be ashamed. If this was a one week wait, so be it, but not at the end of a season. Let us speak in hypotheticals. If he's really done, and dead, the show is over for me. I'm canceling HBO and I'll just move on with my life, and just read how it ends at some point on Wikipedia. Conversely, if he's not dead, and Melisandre can save him, then you've betrayed my emotional trust as a viewer. Now, moving forward, there isn't a death I'll take seriously or won't second guess. Maybe it's the only situation in which a character gets a mulligan, which we know isn't true from the books, but even then you'll have to convince me deaths are real when they do happen, which is pathetic. I mean seriously, as if the audience of this show hasn't been through enough? The end of the last book so far has Jon getting stabbed and left for dead. Not sure if he comes back or not.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 0:10:49 GMT -5
Killing the most pivotal character on the show as a plot device is terrible writing. Everyone involved should be ashamed. If this was a one week wait, so be it, but not at the end of a season. Let us speak in hypotheticals. If he's really done, and dead, the show is over for me. I'm canceling HBO and I'll just move on with my life, and just read how it ends at some point on Wikipedia. Conversely, if he's not dead, and Melisandre can save him, then you've betrayed my emotional trust as a viewer. Now, moving forward, there isn't a death I'll take seriously or won't second guess. Maybe it's the only situation in which a character gets a mulligan, which we know isn't true from the books, but even then you'll have to convince me deaths are real when they do happen, which is pathetic. I mean seriously, as if the audience of this show hasn't been through enough? Couldn't agree more my friend. My heartstrings are ripped. And if that wasn't bad enough, Cersei's tits were from a body double. WHEN WILL THE MADNESS END??? But yeah I don't see how they could possibly not have John. But this would be the one and only instance that I would approve of bringing a character back to life. In season 2 we saw one of those Lord of Light followers do it for the one-eyed guy. So someone as powerful as Melisandre... It isn't out of the question. Plus I feel like they made it a point to show her return to the wall. But yeah this is going to ing suck waiting for a year.
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Post by Mike Giggs' Munchies on Jun 15, 2015 2:02:05 GMT -5
I'll post more later but for now...
#TeamWhiteWalkers
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Post by v/\v on Jun 15, 2015 4:20:59 GMT -5
yeah i'm with the icemen from now on. all hail lord frosty maul.
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Post by King Silva on Jun 15, 2015 4:39:51 GMT -5
yeah i'm with the icemen from now on. all hail lord frosty maul. Exactly. Now that they shanked Jon I hope the Walkers them up.. That walk of shame scene was crazy. Poor Cersei.. At least Arya got her revenge but it cost her her sight.. It really sucks we have to wait so long for season 6.
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Post by mrhoss on Jun 15, 2015 7:40:23 GMT -5
Before last night's episode, I saw stories that Kit signed a contract for next year, but this morning I see a link to Entertainment Weekly(?) where he denies the contract and says he's done.
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Post by punksnotdead on Jun 15, 2015 8:05:10 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 8:33:32 GMT -5
In the end, poor bastard knew nothing.
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Post by k5 on Jun 15, 2015 8:40:27 GMT -5
pretty wild conclusion to season 5 - i'm not as up in arms about jon snow dying as a lot of the other people in here.
happy to see the return of the mountain.
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Post by MacReady on Jun 15, 2015 8:45:24 GMT -5
Some season finales would be happy to feature just ONE of the HUGE things that happened last night, GoT gave us FIVE HUGE cliffhangers to stress over for the next YEAR!
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Post by punksnotdead on Jun 15, 2015 9:21:36 GMT -5
Killing the most pivotal character on the show as a plot device is terrible writing. Everyone involved should be ashamed. If this was a one week wait, so be it, but not at the end of a season. Let us speak in hypotheticals. If he's really done, and dead, the show is over for me. I'm canceling HBO and I'll just move on with my life, and just read how it ends at some point on Wikipedia. Conversely, if he's not dead, and Melisandre can save him, then you've betrayed my emotional trust as a viewer. Now, moving forward, there isn't a death I'll take seriously or won't second guess. Maybe it's the only situation in which a character gets a mulligan, which we know isn't true from the books, but even then you'll have to convince me deaths are real when they do happen, which is pathetic. I mean seriously, as if the audience of this show hasn't been through enough? The end of the last book so far has Jon getting stabbed and left for dead. Not sure if he comes back or not. Right. But let's ask why Melisandre is at Castle Black? She clearly had her doubts about Stannis and those doubts brought her right back to Jon, conveniently. Only two people on the entire show can be Azor Ahai. Either Jon or Dany. Melisandre didn't ride towards Mereen and only one of those two characters fights with Valerian Steel, and had a d*ck measuring contest with Ice Maul. We saw a guy revived/saved in season 3(?) and we know additional characters have avoided permanent death in the books. Had they done this in Episode 1 of next season, and then brought him back towards the end, awesome. But they didn't and all this will be exposed through the internet, Kit's other projects schedule, and inevitable set photos. It's just dumb. You're expecting to not lose people as fans over a year's time and the assumption that book readers and the internet will draw people back in for next season. Again though, in the off chance he's really dead for good, you've lost the viewers entirely.
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Post by MacReady on Jun 15, 2015 9:54:55 GMT -5
The end of the last book so far has Jon getting stabbed and left for dead. Not sure if he comes back or not. Right. But let's ask why Melisandre is at Castle Black? She clearly had her doubts about Stannis and those doubts brought her right back to Jon, conveniently. Only two people on the entire show can be Azor Ahai. Either Jon or Dany. Melisandre didn't ride towards Mereen and only one of those two characters fights with Valerian Steel, and had a d*ck measuring contest with Ice Maul. We saw a guy revived/saved in season 3(?) and we know additional characters have avoided permanent death in the books. Had they done this in Episode 1 of next season, and then brought him back towards the end, awesome. But they didn't and all this will be exposed through the internet, Kit's other projects schedule, and inevitable set photos. It's just dumb. You're expecting to not lose people as fans over a year's time and the assumption that book readers and the internet will draw people back in for next season. Again though, in the off chance he's really dead for good, you've lost the viewers entirely. I've never understood that logic (and this isn't a knock on YOU personally either), that if your favorite character dies on a show then you stop watching the show entirely.... then you were never a fan of the show to begin with. GOOD television isn't about ONE character on a show, a GOOD show has you invest in MULTIPLE characters, so that when events like last night happen... you push on to see how it affects who's left. Jon is arguably the biggest death on the show EVER (and that's saying something on a show that has killed dozens of it's principal cast over the years) but it definitely doesn't feel like there's NO reason to watch the show without him; there's PLENTY left going on. That said, I do think he'll be back as you said: HIGHLIGHT TO READ: They spent too much time over the past few episodes HINTING that he's Azor.
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