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Post by theMOESIAH on Jul 11, 2015 21:31:18 GMT -5
The religious argument is so disingenuous. You people pick and choose which parts of the bible (and constitution) you want to follow and by extension, you pick and choose what things you want to be offended by. For example, why have there been no self-righteous government clerks refusing to do their jobs when somebody wants a divorce? (Spoiler Alert: It's because you're hypocrites) No one is attaching Christians. There is no conspiracy against Christianity. The problem is that the people who are against this are bigots and cowards. You want to deny a minority group their equal rights, which makes you bigots. Then you hide behind behind your religion which makes you cowards. "It's not me, I'm not a dick, it's the bible." Christians are the ones who brought religion into this and then wanted to cry victim when they were told that they were wrong. You people want to enforce your religion-based fascist tyranny (while ironically living in fear of Sharia Law) but then have the nerve to cry victim when someone stands up to you. You want to live your life based on your interpretation of your religion's doctrine? Fine. No one is trying to stop you, despite your paranoia. But when you force your beliefs on someone else, that's when you're in the wrong. No one is forcing gay marriage on anyone. The Supreme Court made gay marriage legal not mandatory. However you are trying to force your beliefs and way of life on them. That's why people are telling you that you are wrong. That's why people are calling you bigots. Are you listening to what you're saying? LOL! You're saying that people (Christians) cant live their lives how they want to because it causes other people to not live their lives how they want to. Its one in the same. You're damning Christians for the exact same reasons that you're upset they're offended by gay marriage. It again goes back to what Ive said a billion times. Its all about acceptance. A true Christian will tell you that they believe homosexuality is wrong but they will also tell you its not up to them to judge someone. Referring to them as "you people" and calling them bigots makes you no better then the people that are homophobes. You're both 1 in the same. You're just on different sides because neither of you have ACCEPTED the other. I dont know you personally. I like you though. You've never done me or my family any harm and because of that you're all good in my book. We have differing opinions on things and thats fine. However, Im not gonna sit here and call you names and try to belittle you beliefs because I dont agree with you. As a Christian, that's not a Christian thing for me to do. Ive accepted, you are who you are whether I like it or not. That's not at all what I've said though. Christians living how they want and actively trying to prevent others from doing the save are two different things. You can believe gay marriage is wrong. I don't like it but I'm fine with that. My problem, as I've stated many times, are the people who try prevent others from living their lives the way they see fit. Christians living their lives does not force anyone to do anything. Them actively fighting equal rights does. Again, those are the people I have a problem with, not all Christians. Also, I did not mean anything negative when I said you people. I wasn't thinking and it was a poor choice of words. The only reason I used that phrase is because I was tired of typing the word Christians over and over again. I changed the post. I want the focus on it to be the points that I made and not the stupid phrasing.
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Post by theMOESIAH on Jul 11, 2015 22:56:12 GMT -5
I already have looked up the definition of bigotry. And you're right, I am being a bigot. I have no tolerance for hateful hypocrites. I am bigoted towards bigots and I am totally fine with that. I've never once attacked Christianity. I'm a Christian. Or to be more accurate, I'm somewhere between Christian and Buddhist. I'm attacking people who cower behind any religion and try to use it to justify their own hatred Now you're going back to talking out of both sides of your mouth. You want to talk as if you are anti-gay marriage guy but then claim that you aren't anti-gay marriage guy. That's like saying "I'm against slavery BUT here's why it's kinda cool..." You want to be on both sides of the issues. I want to make something clear. The times I've lost my temper with you have never been about your religious or political views. I've lost my temper with you because the things you say are ing stupid. I have little tolerance for stupid people. Hey, I think we've found something else I'm bigoted toward. Your masturbation argument made no sense. You want to automatically dismiss every source I've cited because you believe them to be a part of the liberal conspiracy against conservatives that doesn't exist, however we're supposed to take the word of a group that identifies as Christian conservative as gospel. I don't mean any of this in an inflammatory way. I know it's hard to express emotion through typed word but I'm not angry. I'm not being sarcastic. I'm not even trying to be insulting. This is my honest view on the situation. But every argument you've ever made has either made no sense or been a lie. Or both. lol. Yeah some of that didn't make sense. That's what I get for posting in a hurry. Thanks for pointing that out. I probably wouldnt have caught it otherwise. Allow me to clarify: 1. I have never attacked Christianity. Check all of my old posts if you'd like. I have never once said that all Christians are bad or the religion is bad anything along those lines. The people I have a problem with are the ones who hide behind the religion and use it to justify their hate. If someone thinks homosexuality is wrong because of their faith, that's fine. I don't like it but as long as it begins and ends there I have no problems. I dislike the people who actively try to prevent homosexuals or any other group of people from having equal rights. That is wrong, regardless of faith. 2. The issue is that some people are trying to force their ideal of morality on others by banning gay marriage. That affects people's lives. However gay marriage being legalized does not affect those who oppose it in any way. The people who claim to be the victims in the case are in fact the aggressors. In other words, the people who are or have been actively fighting to ban gay marriage (or prevent it from being legalized) are using their ideals of faith and morality to dictate the lives of others. All homosexuals are asking for is their equal rights. They want to live their lives in peace and freedom. It's basically "leave us alone and we'll leave you alone." And the idea that Christians are facing any kind of presuction or descrimination in America is laughable. No one has been denied anything anywhere because of their faith. (Except for the possible exception of this issue with the Muslim bakery that kayfabe brought to my attention. I haven't had a chance to look into that yet but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it were true) 3. As far as my issues with kayfabe... I was trying to say that I wasn't trying to start a flame war with him but I was calling him out for lying and making claims that were beyond obsurd. Like I said in an earlier post, I enjoyed debating with him until the converation deviated from the issue and delved into the absurd. 4. I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with having no tolerance for intolerant people. Should racist people's ideals be tolerated? Of course not. Why should this be any different?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 23:29:31 GMT -5
If they don't want to issue marriage licenses, at worst maybe they should be released from their job. Really, I think the building should just find another clerk who doesn't have a problem with it. I'm sure it won't work that way though. A year in jail? Madness. This isn't the same as interracial marriage. I do think young people are obsessed with wanting their own civil rights movement. I support gay marriage, but this, the Confederate flag, the Washington Redskins issue, it's all getting to be too much as far as social issues. By the way, I'm far left fiscally, but the original leftists, the Marxists and Leninists didn't get caught up in PC or any of that stuff. They were obviously anti-racist and anti-fascist, and the first country to decriminalize homosexuality was the Soviet Union, but they were worried about RESOURCES. Making sure everyone had a job and no one starved to death. In my opinion, as long as that's happening, people should be able to practice whatever religion they want (I know Marx was critical of religion, but I don't see it as that bad), and there's no reason to completely dedicate yourself to gay marriage, gay rights, transgender rights, whatever else. RESOURCES, RESOURCES, RESOURCES. Unions, organized labor, that's what makes a country great. I saw a thing about what the world would be like in 2080, and it talked about the census questions including asking a person how many times in their life they've switched genders. Ultra radical homosexuality and transgenderism and rights and movements doesn't put food on plates. I hate social issues. Unions and organized labor make a country great? Except for Greece, Puerto Rico, and every other country with unions and organized labor. Freedom is what makes a country great. Well, people should be able to find help somewhere. If not government programs, then churches, etc. The poor can be helped in a pro-private market country, but I feel like it wouldn't be super easy.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 6:54:43 GMT -5
theMOESIAHIn reference to your "issues with kayfabe" comment above. Try to relax and enjoy it a little. I'm not super serious with everything I say. its the Internet. We're all just having some fun.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2015 7:06:29 GMT -5
Unions and organized labor make a country great? Except for Greece, Puerto Rico, and every other country with unions and organized labor. Freedom is what makes a country great. Well, people should be able to find help somewhere. If not government programs, then churches, etc. The poor can be helped in a pro-private market country, but I feel like it wouldn't be super easy. I work for a non-profit that helps people find jobs. We're located in a low income community. Most of the people we service are either disabled or are referred to us by the Department of Transitional Assistance. The DTA's stated goal is to get people off welfare and make them self sufficient. DTA is government run, where I work is not. I've worked there for 10 years. I can tell you from personal experience that what the government is doing is not helping. It is designed to do the opposite of its stated goal. You can work and still be on the public dole. The trick is to stay below a specific income level. That is exactly what these people do. They all work minimum wage. They all work part time. None of them want to advance. I've encountered countless people with the skill and ability to advance in their proffesional carrerrs. They don't want to. Their fear is that they'll lose their benefits. That's not helping them. It's keeping them dependent. If you want to "help" people, you need to create opportunities. History has taught us that the way to do that is the free market. We don't have that in this country anymore. It's why we're in the situation we're in. Right now our government works for big business. We need to free up our markets so small businesses have a chance. That would help people.
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