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Post by Overnight Sensation on Jun 29, 2015 22:58:18 GMT -5
One of the best wrestlers in the world, and has been for the past decade.
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torriefan4life
Superstar
Joined on: Mar 9, 2012 13:27:48 GMT -5
Posts: 812
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Post by torriefan4life on Jun 29, 2015 23:01:10 GMT -5
One of the best wrestlers in the world, and has been for the past decade. That is your opinion, not a fact.
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Post by Rob on Jun 29, 2015 23:02:30 GMT -5
Ever since he has been in the mid card, He has been delivering like a mother er. It shows that he is still hungry, which is great.
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Post by Drink it in maaaaaaan on Jun 29, 2015 23:10:38 GMT -5
Cesaro made the match very entertaining.
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CrazyCanuck
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 24, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
Posts: 508
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 29, 2015 23:11:15 GMT -5
Yup, because half of the crowd booing the supposed #1 baby face is good. From whatever angle you look at it, what you just said is a straw man argument. A half positive half negative (sometimes way more negative) reaction for someone who should be universally cheered is a failure. That was a blatant excuse made to try and justify Cena getting booed and make it look like he's good. It's all a matter of opinions and a lot of people hate someone they are supposed to like. Cool post but I'm right. Cena gets more reaction than anyone on the roster and constantly has great matches. Its a fact just by watching RAW tonight. His match was the best on the show (like usual) and he got a better reaction than anyone else. I could give you a bunch of reasons why I think Cena's matches are overrated. The only reason people think Cena is a good wrestler is because of his opponents and the constant kick outs. His matches are extremely overrated tbh. 10000 kick outs doesnt make a match good IMO. What I genuinely see from Cena's actual wrestling ability Isnt good. But that's just my opinion. I'm not wrong on your second point. A reaction doesnt make Cena over. Hulk Hogan was universally cheered, Stone Cold was universally cheered, John Cena isn't. That speaks volumes. But you can just keep ignoring that and pretend like getting a crowd 50/50 split when they are supposed to be universally cheering is okay. He is booked and treated like the number 1 Babyface. But his reactions don't prove it. Fail. But whatever, I'm just a dumb smark and my opinion is irrelevant.
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facemeat
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 24, 2011 0:38:10 GMT -5
Posts: 2,891
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Post by facemeat on Jun 29, 2015 23:18:26 GMT -5
I've enjoyed his US title run, and he's put on quite a few entertaining matches recently, but I think a lot of that comes down to the liberties that he's afforded in the ring more than his talent as a wrestler.
It's like telling a group of painters to paint a vibrant landscape, but only giving one a full palette of colors, while the rest are only allowed to use black and white. You'll probably think the full-color picture looks better simply because the artist was given more to work with.
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CrazyCanuck
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 24, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
Posts: 508
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 29, 2015 23:21:28 GMT -5
I've enjoyed his US title run, and he's put on quite a few entertaining matches recently, but I think a lot of that comes down to the liberties that he's afforded in the ring more than his talent as a wrestler. It's like telling a group of painters to paint a vibrant landscape, but only giving one a full palette of colors, while the rest are only allowed to use black and white. You'll probably think the full-color picture looks better simply because the artist was given more to work with. EXACTLY!!!!!
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Post by ¡Twist Of Lime Green Jello! on Jun 29, 2015 23:35:16 GMT -5
One of the best wrestlers in the world, and has been for the past decade. That is your opinion, not a fact. Well this is a forum for expressing opinions so what you said was pointless.
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Post by SodaGuy on Jun 29, 2015 23:40:14 GMT -5
John Cena has been one of the best workers in the WWE for years. People are just too stubborn to notice and give due.
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Post by Happy Pizza on Jun 30, 2015 0:06:13 GMT -5
I understand why people don't like his character, but trying to deny his talent as a wrestler at this point is laughable. For instance, if we made a list of the best (WWE) matches of the last few years, on that list would probably be:
Cena vs. Punk (MITB) Cena vs. Punk (RAW) Cena vs. Rock (pick one) Cena vs. Bryan Cena vs. Cesaro on RAW (twice) Cena vs. Brock vs. Rollins Cena vs. Owens I Cena vs. Owens II
and a whole bunch of other matches, like everything from his US title run, in the honorable mention column. And on top of that he cuts consistently good promos and gets a huge reaction from crowds that are dead silent the rest of the night.
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Post by RybackV1 on Jun 30, 2015 0:49:15 GMT -5
You can tell that he is actually TRYING. Where as before he would just go through the motions. Especially on Raw. His promo is still the same old same old but he is really really improving in the ring. It only took him 10 years.
Between his matches with Owens, his open challenges, and his absolutely amazing match with Cesaro tonight , I'm actually beginning to enjoy John Cenas work. Son of a bitch they got me.
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Post by Planktung on Jun 30, 2015 0:59:58 GMT -5
It genuinely disappoints me to see that some people STILL refuse to acknowledge John Cena's exceptional in-ring abilities. If the guy hasn't won you over by this point, he never will and it isn't his fault. Cena is one of the best in the world. Not because of who he works with or because his matches contain a plethora of near falls. He's one of the best because he is ing good. Period.
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CrazyCanuck
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 24, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
Posts: 508
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 30, 2015 1:01:52 GMT -5
I understand why people don't like his character, but trying to deny his talent as a wrestler at this point is laughable. For instance, if we made a list of the best (WWE) matches of the last few years, on that list would probably be: Cena vs. Punk (MITB) Cena vs. Punk (RAW) Cena vs. Rock (pick one) Cena vs. Bryan Cena vs. Cesaro on RAW (twice) Cena vs. Brock vs. Rollins Cena vs. Owens I Cena vs. Owens II and a whole bunch of other matches, like everything from his US title run, in the honorable mention column. And on top of that he cuts consistently good promos and gets a huge reaction from crowds that are dead silent the rest of the night. Those matches aren't good because of Cena. They were because of his opponent, the style of match (which the WWE keeps exclusive to Cena) and time given to the matches. The style of match that he has tricks people into thinking its a good match because of all the kickouts. But of course, Cena gets all the credit. Cena's actual wrestling moves are bad. They are bad. The opportunity afforded to him compared to everyone else isn't fair. If you put Baron Corbin (who is as green as grass) in the same style of match with the same time and oppurtunity afforded, people would say it was a good match. His promos are all the same: corny, lame and trying to get himself over. His "reactions" are him getting booed when he is supposed to be cheered. If you call that success than that's great. I think he's trash, and I always will. Cena=Overrated
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Post by Planktung on Jun 30, 2015 1:10:22 GMT -5
I understand why people don't like his character, but trying to deny his talent as a wrestler at this point is laughable. For instance, if we made a list of the best (WWE) matches of the last few years, on that list would probably be: Cena vs. Punk (MITB) Cena vs. Punk (RAW) Cena vs. Rock (pick one) Cena vs. Bryan Cena vs. Cesaro on RAW (twice) Cena vs. Brock vs. Rollins Cena vs. Owens I Cena vs. Owens II and a whole bunch of other matches, like everything from his US title run, in the honorable mention column. And on top of that he cuts consistently good promos and gets a huge reaction from crowds that are dead silent the rest of the night. Those matches aren't good because of Cena. They were because of his opponent, the style of match (which the WWE keeps exclusive to Cena) and time given to the matches. The style of match that he has tricks people into thinking its a good match because of all the kickouts. But of course, Cena gets all the credit. Cena's actual wrestling moves are bad. They are bad. The opportunity afforded to him compared to everyone else isn't fair. If you put Baron Corbin (who is as green as grass) in the same style of match with the same time and oppurtunity afforded, people would say it was a good match. His promos are all the same: corny, lame and trying to get himself over. His "reactions" are him getting booed when he is supposed to be cheered. If you call that success than that's great. I think he's trash, and I always will. Cena=Overrated Yes, we're all tricked into believing that John Cena can put on good matches. It isn't because he, you know, can put on good matches.
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CrazyCanuck
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 24, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
Posts: 508
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 30, 2015 1:11:06 GMT -5
It genuinely disappoints me to see that some people STILL refuse to acknowledge John Cena's exceptional in-ring abilities. If the guy hasn't won you over by this point, he never will and it isn't his fault. Cena is one of the best in the world. Not because of who he works with or because his matches contain a plethora of near falls. He's one of the best because he is ing good. Period. He has no ring psychology All of his moves suck except for one or two He consistently botches He takes bumps on his ass instead of on his back His no-selling makes it look fake It genuinely disappoints me to see that nobody sees this except for a few people but it's true. I could break down a Cena match and show you all of this crap. It is a matter of opinions, and IN MY OPINION Cenas matches are only considered good because of his opponents and the style of match. The style of match deceives people into thinking the match was good because of all of the kickouts. During his match with Cesaro, there was literally a kick out of a punch. All of the gullible fans actually buy into the false finishes where as a guy like me knows 1. Cena isn't losing 2. Cesaro isn't getting pinned from a springboard stunner.
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Post by Happy Pizza on Jun 30, 2015 1:29:41 GMT -5
I think he's trash, and I always will. So why even open this thread? If nobody can say anything to change your mind, why reply to them? Do you expect others to consider your opinion when you won't do the same? Here's a thought experiment for you, though, my friend. If everybody in the arena, even the anti-Cena fans, and everybody on this board, even the self-described anti-Cena fans, were all "fooled by all the kickouts" but thought the match was awesome, were they actually fooled at all? The goal of any match is to get a strong reaction. We all watched it and thought it was great, kickouts and all. A lot of us watch Attitude Era WWF, WCW, Lucha Underground, independent wrestling and/or NJPW which have less kickouts and we like that, too. There isn't a one-size-fits-all recipe for a great match. They can come with or without kickouts! I have no idea what your beef is besides clinging to the vintage Cena Sux gimmick that was all the rage circa 2010. 10/10 would get trolled again tho
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CrazyCanuck
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 24, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
Posts: 508
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 30, 2015 1:47:10 GMT -5
I think he's trash, and I always will. So why even open this thread? If nobody can say anything to change your mind, why reply to them? Do you expect others to consider your opinion when you won't do the same? Here's a thought experiment for you, though, my friend. If everybody in the arena, even the anti-Cena fans, and everybody on this board, even the self-described anti-Cena fans, were all "fooled by all the kickouts" but thought the match was awesome, were they actually fooled at all? The goal of any match is to get a strong reaction. We all watched it and thought it was great, kickouts and all. A lot of us watch Attitude Era WWF, WCW, Lucha Underground, independent wrestling and/or NJPW which have less kickouts and we like that, too. There isn't a one-size-fits-all recipe for a great match. They can come with or without kickouts! I have no idea what your beef is besides clinging to the vintage Cena Sux gimmick that was all the rage circa 2010. 10/10 would get trolled again tho I'm simply stating my opinion and debating others on the board. I know nobody's opinion will change but I enjoy having debates. If you thought the match was good, that's great. I thought the match was extremely overrated. It isn't even just the kickouts. He is put against exceptional wrestlers with a way longer time than any other match on the card I can't stand the fact that guys like Cesaro, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, and more put on great performances and all of the credit goes to Cena. On Cena's end, the match was not good IMO. I could break down the match and tell you exactly what I didn't like that Cena did. My beef is 10 years of built up frustration with Cena. I can't stand him. I challenge you to name me Cenas 5 best moves in the match. Also, consider my Baron Corbin point. Edit: The match had 18 kickouts in 15 minutes. When I said "fooled by the kickouts" not only were the fans fooled into thinking it was a good match, they were fooled into thinking it was all Cena. I've seen the boards. It isn't "Cesaro had a good match" it isn't "Owens had a good match" It's "Cena had a good match, he's one of the best in the world." Cenas matches are structured for deceiving people into thinking Cena is a good performer. Guys like Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Neville, and Bray Wyatt's matches aren't structured like Cena's. Cena gets more oppurtunity and has more tools to have a better match.
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Starscream
Superstar
"In my restless dreams. I see that town...."
Joined on: Sept 9, 2009 20:11:52 GMT -5
Posts: 544
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Post by Starscream on Jun 30, 2015 2:41:24 GMT -5
So why even open this thread? If nobody can say anything to change your mind, why reply to them? Do you expect others to consider your opinion when you won't do the same? Here's a thought experiment for you, though, my friend. If everybody in the arena, even the anti-Cena fans, and everybody on this board, even the self-described anti-Cena fans, were all "fooled by all the kickouts" but thought the match was awesome, were they actually fooled at all? The goal of any match is to get a strong reaction. We all watched it and thought it was great, kickouts and all. A lot of us watch Attitude Era WWF, WCW, Lucha Underground, independent wrestling and/or NJPW which have less kickouts and we like that, too. There isn't a one-size-fits-all recipe for a great match. They can come with or without kickouts! I have no idea what your beef is besides clinging to the vintage Cena Sux gimmick that was all the rage circa 2010. 10/10 would get trolled again tho I'm simply stating my opinion and debating others on the board. I know nobody's opinion will change but I enjoy having debates. If you thought the match was good, that's great. I thought the match was extremely overrated. It isn't even just the kickouts. He is put against exceptional wrestlers with a way longer time than any other match on the card I can't stand the fact that guys like Cesaro, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, and more put on great performances and all of the credit goes to Cena. On Cena's end, the match was not good IMO. I could break down the match and tell you exactly what I didn't like that Cena did. My beef is 10 years of built up frustration with Cena. I can't stand him. I challenge you to name me Cenas 5 best moves in the match. Also, consider my Baron Corbin point. Edit: The match had 18 kickouts in 15 minutes. When I said "fooled by the kickouts" not only were the fans fooled into thinking it was a good match, they were fooled into thinking it was all Cena. I've seen the boards. It isn't "Cesaro had a good match" it isn't "Owens had a good match" It's "Cena had a good match, he's one of the best in the world." Cenas matches are structured for deceiving people into thinking Cena is a good performer. Guys like Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Neville, and Bray Wyatt's matches aren't structured like Cena's. Cena gets more oppurtunity and has more tools to have a better match. You have stated your opinion enough times, we get it, you hate Cena. The evil despicable Cena that gets all the glory from poor "not over at all" Zayn, Owens, Cesaro, Ambrose oh what the heck lets also put Edge, Punk, Bryan, Batista and Orton on the list. It seems you really hate the guy which is disturbing. There comes a time when have to keep your opinion to yourself, people don't find it fun to argue with someone so bias and so full of hate for a man he doesnt even know but I'll give you my 2 cents just this time. Cena at one time was average but he really evolved and has earned the right to be "the man", you wont hear nothing but praise for those that worked with him, but that doesnt mean he or his booking is perfect, a perfect wrestler is something that doesnt exist(save your Curt Henning gif). His character may be stale but his ring work has become superb, and you clearly havent "checked the boards" because people were praising Cesaro, same they did with Zayn and Owens and others. It seems you are just stuck in 2007.
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CrazyCanuck
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 24, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
Posts: 508
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Post by CrazyCanuck on Jun 30, 2015 2:47:48 GMT -5
I'm simply stating my opinion and debating others on the board. I know nobody's opinion will change but I enjoy having debates. If you thought the match was good, that's great. I thought the match was extremely overrated. It isn't even just the kickouts. He is put against exceptional wrestlers with a way longer time than any other match on the card I can't stand the fact that guys like Cesaro, Kevin Owens, Sami Zayn, and more put on great performances and all of the credit goes to Cena. On Cena's end, the match was not good IMO. I could break down the match and tell you exactly what I didn't like that Cena did. My beef is 10 years of built up frustration with Cena. I can't stand him. I challenge you to name me Cenas 5 best moves in the match. Also, consider my Baron Corbin point. Edit: The match had 18 kickouts in 15 minutes. When I said "fooled by the kickouts" not only were the fans fooled into thinking it was a good match, they were fooled into thinking it was all Cena. I've seen the boards. It isn't "Cesaro had a good match" it isn't "Owens had a good match" It's "Cena had a good match, he's one of the best in the world." Cenas matches are structured for deceiving people into thinking Cena is a good performer. Guys like Dean Ambrose, Seth Rollins, Neville, and Bray Wyatt's matches aren't structured like Cena's. Cena gets more oppurtunity and has more tools to have a better match. You have stated your opinion enough times, we get it, you hate Cena. The evil despicable Cena that gets all the glory from poor "not over at all" Zayn, Owens, Cesaro, Ambrose oh what the heck lets also put Edge, Punk, Bryan, Batista and Orton on the list. It seems you really hate the guy which is disturbing. There comes a time when have to keep your opinion to yourself, people don't find it fun to argue with someone so bias and so full of hate for a man he doesnt even know but I'll give you my 2 cents just this time. Cena at one time was average but he really evolved and has earned the right to be "the man", you wont hear nothing but praise for those that worked with him, but that doesnt mean he or his booking is perfect, a perfect wrestler is something that doesnt exist(save your Curt Henning gif). His character may be stale but his ring work has become superb, and you clearly havent "checked the boards" because people were praising Cesaro, same they did with Zayn and Owens and others. It seems you are just stuck in 2007. Mhm. Of course. Just because I hate Cena and my opinion is unpopular it should be kept to myself, but you are allowed to give your opinion about Cena because it isn't negative. Is my opinion bias? Absolutely. But I have specific and exact reasons why I think he is a bad wrestler. But because I don't like Cena, the typical stereotypes comes up to try and label me. I can't tolerate people like this, So I'm just going to stop here.
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Deleted
Joined on: Jun 5, 2024 1:28:31 GMT -5
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2015 2:55:08 GMT -5
He's been putting on consistently excellent matches/MOTN for the last 5 years or so.
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