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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 11:48:08 GMT -5
But Was Nikki Bella vs Naomi a Bad Match? It was actually pretty good did they deserve the sasha chants? No.The Tag Match was a little off but it was passable.There was nothing bad last night for the divas. As Kev said, it wasn't bad, it was just there. And that's the problem. A bad match that actually meant something would've been worth more than a mediocre, forgettable match that meant nothing in this scenario. When I said "what they're seeing sucks", I wasn't specifically referring to the match itself. I mean that what they're seeing is boring, played out, and serves no purpose and they know it. That's not just a divas thing, that's a WWE thing. The talent is being asked to create magic for an audience who knows what they're seeing is formulaic, arcane, and entirely directionless. Chicago is the most rabid, passionate audience that WWE performs in front of, and they basically sat on their hands last night because the show was trash. But that's the thing the match Did surve a purpose it was Nikki bella trying to pick up some wins for her match at HIAC just like last week when natalya took on paige.If Sasha faced Natalya on raw despite being a Good match would it serve a purpose even though there was no reason for them to fight?
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Post by J12 on Oct 13, 2015 11:58:27 GMT -5
As Kev said, it wasn't bad, it was just there. And that's the problem. A bad match that actually meant something would've been worth more than a mediocre, forgettable match that meant nothing in this scenario. When I said "what they're seeing sucks", I wasn't specifically referring to the match itself. I mean that what they're seeing is boring, played out, and serves no purpose and they know it. That's not just a divas thing, that's a WWE thing. The talent is being asked to create magic for an audience who knows what they're seeing is formulaic, arcane, and entirely directionless. Chicago is the most rabid, passionate audience that WWE performs in front of, and they basically sat on their hands last night because the show was trash. But that's the thing the match Did surve a purpose it was Nikki bella trying to pick up some wins for her match at HIAC just like last week when natalya took on paige.If Sasha faced Natalya on raw despite being a Good match would it serve a purpose even though there was no reason for them to fight? I'm sorry, I'm not going to pat WWE on the back for doing half of their job. They gave Nikki a win - that's great, she did need it, because she, like everyone else not named John Cena, has become a victim of 50/50 booking. But again, I'll raise the point - the brand new champion was pinned in a meaningless tag team match later in the show, and it's not the first time this has happened since she won the title. What's the purpose in that? How does that make me, the viewer, more excited to see Nikki Bella face Charlotte? Next week, Nikki will probably lose and Charlotte will probably win and their match at Hell in a Cell won't matter. Like I said, none of it matters. Sasha Banks is getting cheered during a match like that because she's the only interesting thing about that match. You want to stop it from happening? Make me care about Nikki Bella. Make me care about Naomi. I like both of those women, but there is absolutely no reason to cheer or boo either of them right now, because sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, and all of the time, those wins and losses get them nowhere. This is a macro problem. WWE will use this as an opportunity to point their finger at the audience and say, "see, we give you a revolution and this is what you do!" when it reality, this is just another shining example of the systemic failure that is WWE creative right now.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Oct 13, 2015 12:00:10 GMT -5
Want to know the real reason why the Horsewomen are put on a pedestal? They've earned it. They delivered and are now held to a higher standard than the rest of the girls. The fans want Sasha Banks as the focal point of the Divas division. Not a Bella Twin, not Charlotte (who is now a ripoff of her dad and the title win meant so much less since she failed to stop Nikki from breaking the record), not lackluster Paige and not the other mediocre at best divas. They want Sasha. That's all there is to it. But has the bellas not earned there position?,Are we all slowly tuning on Charlotte now? Is Paige now an afterthought? How long would it take until We all get tired of Sasha Banks and move on to the next chick.They want Sasha today and then Bayley tomorrow. 1) The Bella Twins have improved, but haven't earned the level of high praise that the Four Horsewomen get. 2) I'm not turning on Charlotte. She is still great in the ring, but personally, was always my least favorite of the four NXT girls. I'm saying that her title win was hollow. The fans didn't care as much when she won because so much emphasis was put on the record that when she didn't stop that, it took away from it. 3) As a guy who likes Paige, I have admitted on several occasions that her in-ring work has been pretty bad in 2015, outside of a few matches (some with Nikki and Sasha). She isn't an afterthought since they are giving her some shine. 4) Wrestling fans almost always get tired. It's in our nature. I'd hope Sasha Banks stayed popular for a while and I believe that if left alone, she can. What's hurting Charlotte is that they are making her a carbon copy of her dad. Regardless, everyone wants to see the new "it" thing. That's Sasha Banks right now. Strike while the iron is hot. Best case scenario, she delivers and stays as the face of the division. If not, she'll still deliver, the fans get tired and move on to another talented girl. The fact remains that NEXT TO NOTHING that the current crop of Divas outside of the NXT girls have done is really worth anything interesting. Nikki and Brie had a good match at HIAC but the feud was horrible. Paige has disappointed. Naomi, Alicia and Tamina are almost always bad or insignificant. Outside of a small heel run from Eve, the tail end of LayCool and the Kaitlyn/AJ feud, nothing that the division has done in the past five years has really been any good.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Oct 13, 2015 12:02:28 GMT -5
But that's the thing the match Did surve a purpose it was Nikki bella trying to pick up some wins for her match at HIAC just like last week when natalya took on paige.If Sasha faced Natalya on raw despite being a Good match would it serve a purpose even though there was no reason for them to fight? I'm sorry, I'm not going to pat WWE on the back for doing half of their job. They gave Nikki a win - that's great, she did need it, because she, like everyone else not named John Cena, has become a victim of 50/50 booking. But again, I'll raise the point - the brand new champion was pinned in a meaningless tag team match later in the show, and it's not the first time this has happened since she won the title. What's the purpose in that? How does that make me, the viewer, more excited to see Nikki Bella face Charlotte? Next week, Nikki will probably lose and Charlotte will probably win and their match at Hell in a Cell won't matter. Like I said, none of it matters. Sasha Banks is getting cheered during a match like that because she's the only interesting thing about that match. You want to stop it from happening? Make me care about Nikki Bella. Make me care about Naomi. I like both of those women, but there is absolutely no reason to cheer or boo either of them right now, because sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, and all of the time, those wins and losses get them nowhere. This is a macro problem. WWE will use this as an opportunity to point their finger at the audience and say, "see, we give you a revolution and this is what you do!" when it reality, this is just another shining example of the systemic failure that is WWE creative right now. You absolutely hit the nail on the head. Nothing being done with the Divas division, or honestly the rest of the main roster, has given me a reason to give a damn. None of it ultimately matters. Kane pinned Seth and Seth will most likely just beat him at HIAC and in the end, nothing will have really been accomplished. Same goes for the Divas.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 12:05:54 GMT -5
But that's the thing the match Did surve a purpose it was Nikki bella trying to pick up some wins for her match at HIAC just like last week when natalya took on paige.If Sasha faced Natalya on raw despite being a Good match would it serve a purpose even though there was no reason for them to fight? I'm sorry, I'm not going to pat WWE on the back for doing half of their job. They gave Nikki a win - that's great, she did need it, because she, like everyone else not named John Cena, has become a victim of 50/50 booking. But again, I'll raise the point - the brand new champion was pinned in a meaningless tag team match later in the show, and it's not the first time this has happened since she won the title. What's the purpose in that? How does that make me, the viewer, more excited to see Nikki Bella face Charlotte? Next week, Nikki will probably lose and Charlotte will probably win and their match at Hell in a Cell won't matter. Like I said, none of it matters. Sasha Banks is getting cheered during a match like that because she's the only interesting thing about that match. You want to stop it from happening? Make me care about Nikki Bella. Make me care about Naomi. I like both of those women, but there is absolutely no reason to cheer or boo either of them right now, because sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, and all of the time, those wins and losses get them nowhere. This is a macro problem. WWE will use this as an opportunity to point their finger at the audience and say, "see, we give you a revolution and this is what you do!" when it reality, this is just another shining example of the systemic failure that is WWE creative right now. Gaht damn this!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 12:24:14 GMT -5
But that's the thing the match Did surve a purpose it was Nikki bella trying to pick up some wins for her match at HIAC just like last week when natalya took on paige.If Sasha faced Natalya on raw despite being a Good match would it serve a purpose even though there was no reason for them to fight? I'm sorry, I'm not going to pat WWE on the back for doing half of their job. They gave Nikki a win - that's great, she did need it, because she, like everyone else not named John Cena, has become a victim of 50/50 booking. But again, I'll raise the point - the brand new champion was pinned in a meaningless tag team match later in the show, and it's not the first time this has happened since she won the title. What's the purpose in that? How does that make me, the viewer, more excited to see Nikki Bella face Charlotte? Next week, Nikki will probably lose and Charlotte will probably win and their match at Hell in a Cell won't matter. Like I said, none of it matters. Sasha Banks is getting cheered during a match like that because she's the only interesting thing about that match. You want to stop it from happening? Make me care about Nikki Bella. Make me care about Naomi. I like both of those women, but there is absolutely no reason to cheer or boo either of them right now, because sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, and all of the time, those wins and losses get them nowhere. This is a macro problem. WWE will use this as an opportunity to point their finger at the audience and say, "see, we give you a revolution and this is what you do!" when it reality, this is just another shining example of the systemic failure that is WWE creative right now. I do agree that Charlotte losing on raw didn't make sense since she needs the wins as well. But Let me Ask You Something In a Smart Booking world What would Make You Care About Nikki vs Charlotte?
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Post by J12 on Oct 13, 2015 13:02:14 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I'm not going to pat WWE on the back for doing half of their job. They gave Nikki a win - that's great, she did need it, because she, like everyone else not named John Cena, has become a victim of 50/50 booking. But again, I'll raise the point - the brand new champion was pinned in a meaningless tag team match later in the show, and it's not the first time this has happened since she won the title. What's the purpose in that? How does that make me, the viewer, more excited to see Nikki Bella face Charlotte? Next week, Nikki will probably lose and Charlotte will probably win and their match at Hell in a Cell won't matter. Like I said, none of it matters. Sasha Banks is getting cheered during a match like that because she's the only interesting thing about that match. You want to stop it from happening? Make me care about Nikki Bella. Make me care about Naomi. I like both of those women, but there is absolutely no reason to cheer or boo either of them right now, because sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, and all of the time, those wins and losses get them nowhere. This is a macro problem. WWE will use this as an opportunity to point their finger at the audience and say, "see, we give you a revolution and this is what you do!" when it reality, this is just another shining example of the systemic failure that is WWE creative right now. I do agree that Charlotte losing on raw didn't make sense since she needs the wins as well. But Let me Ask You Something In a Smart Booking world What would Make You Care About Nikki vs Charlotte? It goes back to the systemic changes that WWE needs to make in order to be creative successfully. I think it's too little, too late for Charlotte vs. Nikki, but, what the hell, I'll give it a shot. -For starters, this goes all the way back to the championship record. Charlotte should have beaten the record, or not won the title at all. The result was the Championship playing second fiddle to a record that didn't mean anything to do begin with, partially because Nikki hadn't defended the belt in months, and because we've been taught to not care about the women or the division's title up until the "revolution" started. -Stop trading wins. In order to have a successful feud, these two can't keep trading wins with other people on a weekly basis. Keep them both strong. -Stop trying to sell me the female version of Ric Flair. Charlotte has all the tools to be a successful asset on her own merits, I don't need to be reminded every five seconds that she's the offspring of the Nature Boy. Just stop it. Let her be herself. -Commit to Nikki Bella as a heel. She's condescending, she's beautiful and she knows it, and she touts herself as the class of the women's division. Act like it. Don't let she and Brie parade around ringside slapping hands with little kids and flip-flopping depending on who she's facing. Be the stuck up, superficial, holier-than-thou queen that her character is meant to be. -Make it more than just a cat fight. Currently, we're being told (and shown) that the diva's revolution is just taking what women do in their everyday lives (fight with each other) and broadcasting it for the world to see. That simply isn't true. As I've mentioned before, it's a sexist, misogynistic portrayal of stereotypical catty women who just can't get along, told by a seventy year old man and his lackey for their own enjoyment. They don't get it. No women's feud is going to succeed until they get away from telling these stories about "bitchy women" who hate each other for no reason other than the fact that they're "bitchy women."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 13:20:12 GMT -5
You can say whatever you want in matches you have the right to do that I said earlier.Was it wrong for the We want lana chants when rusev was wrestling? It simply depends on the story if she wasn't then yes absolutely.Was it wrong for the Daniel Bryan chants? Absolutely not because at that time he Was being treated wrong because he wasn't in the rumble match and he was gonna face sheamus at mania so yes it was good thing. But Sasha Banks isn't in a Daniel Bryan Position she's not on a losing streak or not being used at all.She won a tag match in her hometown last week they gave her her credit for the respect match so she is indeed in a good position right now. I do feel like the 4HW do get put on a higher pedestal because of the takeover matches and There work on nxt while the other divas who don't get the same treatment and don't get the 20 minute matches get looked as a joke when it's not mostly there fault.Which is why I root for the others as well because I want them to succeed just as much as Bayley,Sasha,Becky and Charlotte has and that to me is what the divas revolution is all about supporting the women's division which is something we all talked about just last week.So that's why I was offended by the sasha chants. Want to know the real reason why the Horsewomen are put on a pedestal? They've earned it. They delivered and are now held to a higher standard than the rest of the girls. The fans want Sasha Banks as the focal point of the Divas division. Not a Bella Twin, not Charlotte (who is now a ripoff of her dad and the title win meant so much less since she failed to stop Nikki from breaking the record), not lackluster Paige and not the other mediocre at best divas. They want Sasha. That's all there is to it. Speak for yourself. I do NOT want her anywhere near the championship picture. I do not get the big deal with her and never will.
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Post by HVMMONS on Oct 13, 2015 13:26:20 GMT -5
Spreading rumors, eh? Who's the daddy? The Kevstaaa
Also, @drizzyboi, do you care to explain something to me? I've been wondering this for a while. Why do you not put a space between an ending sentence and a beginning sentence? I can't comprehend. Your spacebar obviously works.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Oct 13, 2015 13:29:12 GMT -5
Want to know the real reason why the Horsewomen are put on a pedestal? They've earned it. They delivered and are now held to a higher standard than the rest of the girls. The fans want Sasha Banks as the focal point of the Divas division. Not a Bella Twin, not Charlotte (who is now a ripoff of her dad and the title win meant so much less since she failed to stop Nikki from breaking the record), not lackluster Paige and not the other mediocre at best divas. They want Sasha. That's all there is to it. Speak for yourself. I do NOT want her anywhere near the championship picture. I do not get the big deal with her and never will. When I say "the fans", I obviously don't mean every single person. The majority of them seem to want to see Sasha Banks. It's okay if you don't and if you don't get the big deal with her.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 13:34:58 GMT -5
I do agree that Charlotte losing on raw didn't make sense since she needs the wins as well. But Let me Ask You Something In a Smart Booking world What would Make You Care About Nikki vs Charlotte? It goes back to the systemic changes that WWE needs to make in order to be creative successfully. I think it's too little, too late for Charlotte vs. Nikki, but, what the hell, I'll give it a shot. -For starters, this goes all the way back to the championship record. Charlotte should have beaten the record, or not won the title at all. The result was the Championship playing second fiddle to a record that didn't mean anything to do begin with, partially because Nikki hadn't defended the belt in months, and because we've been taught to not care about the women or the division's title up until the "revolution" started. -Stop trading wins. In order to have a successful feud, these two can't keep trading wins with other people on a weekly basis. Keep them both strong. -Stop trying to sell me the female version of Ric Flair. Charlotte has all the tools to be a successful asset on her own merits, I don't need to be reminded every five seconds that she's the offspring of the Nature Boy. Just stop it. Let her be herself. -Commit to Nikki Bella as a heel. She's condescending, she's beautiful and she knows it, and she touts herself as the class of the women's division. Act like it. Don't let she and Brie parade around ringside slapping hands with little kids and flip-flopping depending on who she's facing. Be the stuck up, superficial, holier-than-thou queen that her character is meant to be. -Make it more than just a cat fight. Currently, we're being told (and shown) that the diva's revolution is just taking what women do in their everyday lives (fight with each other) and broadcasting it for the world to see. That simply isn't true. As I've mentioned before, it's a sexist, misogynistic portrayal of stereotypical catty women who just can't get along, told by a seventy year old man and his lackey for their own enjoyment. They don't get it. No women's feud is going to succeed until they get away from telling these stories about "bitchy women" who hate each other for no reason other than the fact that they're "bitchy women." Those are some really good points.Can I ask you some more questions what about Team Bad and the heat towards Eva Marie how can the WWE still book eva in a way where the fans can at least tolerate her because WWE obvious wants her to be a star.What about Team Bad do you think WWE is booking them the right way?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 13:44:06 GMT -5
Spreading rumors, eh? Who's the daddy? The Kevstaaa
Also, @drizzyboi, do you care to explain something to me? I've been wondering this for a while. Why do you not put a space between an ending sentence and a beginning sentence? I can't comprehend. Your spacebar obviously works. I don't know is it that big of a problem? I type on my phone most of the time.
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Post by HVMMONS on Oct 13, 2015 13:47:17 GMT -5
The Kevstaaa
Also, @drizzyboi, do you care to explain something to me? I've been wondering this for a while. Why do you not put a space between an ending sentence and a beginning sentence? I can't comprehend. Your spacebar obviously works. I don't know is it that big of a problem? I type on my phone most of the time. Yes.
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Post by J12 on Oct 13, 2015 13:47:36 GMT -5
It goes back to the systemic changes that WWE needs to make in order to be creative successfully. I think it's too little, too late for Charlotte vs. Nikki, but, what the hell, I'll give it a shot. -For starters, this goes all the way back to the championship record. Charlotte should have beaten the record, or not won the title at all. The result was the Championship playing second fiddle to a record that didn't mean anything to do begin with, partially because Nikki hadn't defended the belt in months, and because we've been taught to not care about the women or the division's title up until the "revolution" started. -Stop trading wins. In order to have a successful feud, these two can't keep trading wins with other people on a weekly basis. Keep them both strong. -Stop trying to sell me the female version of Ric Flair. Charlotte has all the tools to be a successful asset on her own merits, I don't need to be reminded every five seconds that she's the offspring of the Nature Boy. Just stop it. Let her be herself. -Commit to Nikki Bella as a heel. She's condescending, she's beautiful and she knows it, and she touts herself as the class of the women's division. Act like it. Don't let she and Brie parade around ringside slapping hands with little kids and flip-flopping depending on who she's facing. Be the stuck up, superficial, holier-than-thou queen that her character is meant to be. -Make it more than just a cat fight. Currently, we're being told (and shown) that the diva's revolution is just taking what women do in their everyday lives (fight with each other) and broadcasting it for the world to see. That simply isn't true. As I've mentioned before, it's a sexist, misogynistic portrayal of stereotypical catty women who just can't get along, told by a seventy year old man and his lackey for their own enjoyment. They don't get it. No women's feud is going to succeed until they get away from telling these stories about "bitchy women" who hate each other for no reason other than the fact that they're "bitchy women." Those are some really good points.Can I ask you some more questions what about Team Bad and the heat towards Eva Marie how can the WWE still book eva in a way where the fans can at least tolerate her because WWE obvious wants her to be a star.What about Team Bad do you think WWE is booking them the right way? I don't think Team Bad is being handled properly because I don't think the team stuff is working. Its run its course. That goes for all three of them (but especially PCNB, or whatever the hell they want to call them now.)It's fine to pair up the women, but making it all about the teams has been totally counter productive to getting any of them over. I'm not opposed to keeping Naomi and Tamina together, or even using Tamina as Sasha's bodyguard or something, but I think all of those groups should be split sooner rather than later. The twins, obviously, can stay together. Charlotte and Becky can be friendly without being a tag team. It's time to make it about the title again. As for Eva Marie, I don't know. It's really hard. She's a heat magnet, but I'm not entirely sure it's the heat you want to get as a heel. I know people say that any reaction is a good reaction, but the response Eva gets seems to be more of a "I'm going to change to channel" rather than "I'm going to boo you because you're a bad guy." If they can find a happy medium and make that work, then so be it. Thus far, I've been thoroughly unimpressed with her attempts at improvement. She's got the right trainers, she's got the right environment, and yet she's still proving to be a liability. That's not good. Some people just aren't cut out to be wrestlers, and I think Eva may be one of them. She's got a marketable look, though, and that still gets you a long way in this business. My first thought, given everything I mentioned above, is to utilize her as a manager, but in order to do that, she should be at least believable and effective on the microphone. She isn't, not even close. You can see through her immediately. You can almost see her working through everything in her head every time she's on camera. She's calculated and constantly nervous and it immediately detracts from her character, and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. I see the potential there, I see why they think they can make money with her, but, especially in this era of women's wrestling, I think the best place for her is ultimately exactly where she is - a pretty face on Total Divas.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 13:49:44 GMT -5
I don't know is it that big of a problem? I type on my phone most of the time. Yes. Well I don't know what to tell ya your just gonna have to live with it.
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Post by HVMMONS on Oct 13, 2015 13:52:00 GMT -5
Well I don't know what to tell ya your just gonna have to live with it. ![](http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2013/08/06/cm-punk.JPG)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2015 13:57:10 GMT -5
Well I don't know what to tell ya your just gonna have to live with it. ![](http://s1.ibtimes.com/sites/www.ibtimes.com/files/styles/v2_article_large/public/2013/08/06/cm-punk.JPG) I don't understand the point of what your doing.You want a big ass medal or something for fixing my grammar? Get over yourself.
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Post by HVMMONS on Oct 13, 2015 13:58:55 GMT -5
I don't understand the point of what your doing.You want a big ass medal or something for fixing my gramma? Get over yourself. A simple question turned into grammar school.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Oct 13, 2015 14:06:37 GMT -5
I love how we come here to discuss wrestling and you have pricks who want to start crap about grammar. Get a life. Are you actually in here to discuss wrestling or just to call someone a prick?
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Post by Joe/Smurf on Oct 13, 2015 14:08:56 GMT -5
I thought ratchet meant she was slutty...pretty sure that's what it means...but. Oh well. Nah it's a word black people use to describe low class black women. For a predominantly white male crowd to chant it is actually pretty racist and sexist.
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