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Post by Rob on Oct 22, 2015 1:36:09 GMT -5
Nothing is going to change overnight. WWE has found themselves back in another 1994-95 situation where ratings are in the toilet and the product is horribly stale.
If Roman Reigns is their pick for the next "guy", Lol, This company will be reduced to studios like TNA in 10 years time.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 17, 2024 15:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2015 1:43:30 GMT -5
The product is totally just not that interesting anymore. You have a guy who shouldn't be going for the main title, in the main event. Don't get me wrong, Kane is a great worker, but he's had more heel/face turns than Big Show. Not to mention him being back in a mask has been pointless since being unmasked in 2003. You have a terribly stale Undertaker/Lesnar feud that's going to end Sunday, with neither guy being around after it till WrestleMania...
Then you have all of the guys who fans want to see, but are stuck floundering in the midcard, in pointless feuds/matches while being fed to Cena. Guys like Ziggler, Cesaro, Owens, Rusev, Ambrose, Stardust, etc...
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mrassbillygunn
Main Eventer
WF 10+ Year Member
Joined on: Jul 23, 2011 19:35:48 GMT -5
Posts: 4,298
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Post by mrassbillygunn on Oct 22, 2015 20:08:40 GMT -5
Ill tell you what is a real turn off, the production. Im not talking about the glitz and glamour aspect, WWE is cutting edge with their production BUT the commentating aspect in regards to ring announcers, pre show commentators, in ring interviews like when Hogan, Flair and Michaels were interviewed a lot of months back, its all very...CNN. Its too professional and it doesnt mix well with wrestling and I get bad vibes everytime they do stuff like that. I find it a real turn off.
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Post by HBK: Kayfabe on Oct 22, 2015 23:53:45 GMT -5
How do APPs like Hulu and the WWE Network play into all of this. We are talking about cable ratings, right? Wouldn't it be safe to say that less and less people are using cable services and are relying on things like Hulu, Netflix and Amazon for their content?
It's just like DVD rentals - people are complaining that the numbers are down, but no one is taking into account Redbox, Vudu, Amazon and other streaming channels.
I wonder if there's an algorithm in place that's balancing everything out?
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Post by Tom Baker's Scarf on Oct 24, 2015 18:18:33 GMT -5
not to mention that for the better part of 6 months there has been at least AN HOUR a night devoted to womens wrestling which is literally the single worst & most boring thing that has ever existed in pro wrestling. if they are trying to get an all-female & all-children audience, it's working....and guess what, women & children aren't going to watch the same show every week for a year. 0_o Anyway, they have a serious issue with their product. They have the talent for something great but they seem so hesitant about pushing the new guys and keeping them relevant. We can point the finger at Vince, which is probably accurate. He seems so out of touch.
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 24, 2015 18:48:53 GMT -5
It's taken a decade but I feel that the WWEs refusal to make new stars or take any risks has caught up to them. Cena and Batista were the last two legit main stream superstars they made. Sure guys like Bryan and Punk got hot but the WWE refused to push them to the moon.
They have a ton of talent in the midcard that has been neutered with the 50/50 booking. 13 years after their debuts and Cena, Lesnar, and Orton are still the only credible top guys on the roster. 18 years after the debut of the gimmick and Kane is fighting for the top title. We have no reason to care about anyone because there are no stories. We have no reason to invest in there roster.
Hopefully this is a sign that the days of putting a bandaid over the problem by bringing back legends won't cut it anymore and real change comes.
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Post by LA Times on Oct 24, 2015 20:26:45 GMT -5
How do APPs like Hulu and the WWE Network play into all of this. We are talking about cable ratings, right? Wouldn't it be safe to say that less and less people are using cable services and are relying on things like Hulu, Netflix and Amazon for their content? It's just like DVD rentals - people are complaining that the numbers are down, but no one is taking into account Redbox, Vudu, Amazon and other streaming channels. I wonder if there's an algorithm in place that's balancing everything out? It may have some effect, but not as much as people think. Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Dexter and various shows on MTV and Nickelodeon still get great ratings so that means people are still tuning in at a specific time to watch TV.
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Post by ~*Young $ Money*~ on Oct 24, 2015 23:09:07 GMT -5
The problem is WWE only wants Cena over and doesn't care about anyone else. As soon as someone gets hot they cut them off. Ryder was one of the hottest things going a few years ago and WWE did NOTHING with him. Call it crazy but people were interested and would of tuned in to watch him. WWE killed him. Owens started out hot too, got fed to super Cena and it was over. Everyone knows what's coming and they don't care anymore. Then you throw these legends into the mix and expect something different to happen. They are to old and aren't going to do anything but give an interview or something stupid. Maybe if they had some new debut or some kind of video packages hyping something it would be get people to tune in.
Another thing is the 3 hours. Its WAY to much. Its a lot of useless filler/recap. The matches are repative and doesn't get anyone excited. ECW had two guys feud for a year and din't wrestle each other once. You don't need match after match after match. I just feel things are overdone because they have so much time. THey need to go back to 2 hours and make it quality over quanity.
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Oct 25, 2015 10:22:44 GMT -5
Austin may as well not have been there tbh, Undertaker and Lesnar's segment was a bit of a let down I'm rooting for Undertaker but I wouldn't have minded Lesnar coming out on top just a small slice of action would have been good. I cant actually remember what Flair did, Shawn probably had the most impact. There was no mention of Orton or Harpers disappearance, Rowan's return was BS "Eric Rowan is back in the fold" how lame is that for a return..
As always I enjoyed the show, but its understandable why people turned off at some points.
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Post by HBK: Kayfabe on Oct 26, 2015 13:23:18 GMT -5
How do APPs like Hulu and the WWE Network play into all of this. We are talking about cable ratings, right? Wouldn't it be safe to say that less and less people are using cable services and are relying on things like Hulu, Netflix and Amazon for their content? It's just like DVD rentals - people are complaining that the numbers are down, but no one is taking into account Redbox, Vudu, Amazon and other streaming channels. I wonder if there's an algorithm in place that's balancing everything out? It may have some effect, but not as much as people think. Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Dexter and various shows on MTV and Nickelodeon still get great ratings so that means people are still tuning in at a specific time to watch TV. True. But there's no Walking Dead Network or Game of Thrones Network. Not to mention, the key demographic for wrestling would be more inclined to use a service like Hulu or the WWE Network rather than watch it live. I haven't had cable in years, nor have my friends or their friends or anyone else I'm close to.
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Post by J12 on Oct 26, 2015 13:41:06 GMT -5
How do APPs like Hulu and the WWE Network play into all of this. We are talking about cable ratings, right? Wouldn't it be safe to say that less and less people are using cable services and are relying on things like Hulu, Netflix and Amazon for their content? It's just like DVD rentals - people are complaining that the numbers are down, but no one is taking into account Redbox, Vudu, Amazon and other streaming channels. I wonder if there's an algorithm in place that's balancing everything out? In WWE's case, it's basically irrelevant. The reason is because their basis of negotiation when hammering out their last right's fees contract was that they were DVR proof, like football. Evidently, they aren't. They're not even close. Now, if they could point to football (and other so called "DVR-proof" content) and show ratings drops, they'd probably be off the hook. But they can't. Those other products still do huge numbers relative to their projected audience, so WWE can only blame themselves. They've blown their only major bargaining chip when it comes to the next round of negotiations. That basis got them a better deal than they probably deserved, but sponsors won't be so kind next time when they see these numbers. If anything, a higher number of views on Hulu might hurt them in that scenario, because it shows proof that they're not at all what they say they are. The current situation has very little effect on the day to day operations of WWE creative because it's a delayed domino effect. The rights deal is in place, so, short of cancellation, WWE is drawing the same amount of advertising dollars each week regardless of the fact that their ratings are in a full-blown free-fall. If they don't start working to change things, though, they're going to be in a world of trouble when the deal is up in a couple of years.
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Post by HBK: Kayfabe on Oct 26, 2015 17:30:11 GMT -5
How do APPs like Hulu and the WWE Network play into all of this. We are talking about cable ratings, right? Wouldn't it be safe to say that less and less people are using cable services and are relying on things like Hulu, Netflix and Amazon for their content? It's just like DVD rentals - people are complaining that the numbers are down, but no one is taking into account Redbox, Vudu, Amazon and other streaming channels. I wonder if there's an algorithm in place that's balancing everything out? In WWE's case, it's basically irrelevant. The reason is because their basis of negotiation when hammering out their last right's fees contract was that they were DVR proof, like football. Evidently, they aren't. They're not even close. Now, if they could point to football (and other so called "DVR-proof" content) and show ratings drops, they'd probably be off the hook. But they can't. Those other products still do huge numbers relative to their projected audience, so WWE can only blame themselves. They've blown their only major bargaining chip when it comes to the next round of negotiations. That basis got them a better deal than they probably deserved, but sponsors won't be so kind next time when they see these numbers. If anything, a higher number of views on Hulu might hurt them in that scenario, because it shows proof that they're not at all what they say they are. The current situation has very little effect on the day to day operations of WWE creative because it's a delayed domino effect. The rights deal is in place, so, short of cancellation, WWE is drawing the same amount of advertising dollars each week regardless of the fact that their ratings are in a full-blown free-fall. If they don't start working to change things, though, they're going to be in a world of trouble when the deal is up in a couple of years. But they can, NFL ratings have dropped over the past 4 seasons and will drop once again this year. NFL even publicly stated that their biggest obstacle is with young viewer retention. Yes, the NFL is a DVR proof product, yet is in a huge decline - like all major sports. It's across the board, Viacom Inc. is reporting a 20 percent drop among its youth aimed networks such as MTV and Nickelodeon. Ratings will continue to drop and will continue to drop for everyone. Cable television/Broadcast television will be dead before we know it. On the bright side, their financials look stronger than ever. Time will tell what kind of impact their ratings drop will have on sponsors in an age where streaming services are paramount for their key demo.
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Post by J12 on Oct 26, 2015 18:13:33 GMT -5
In WWE's case, it's basically irrelevant. The reason is because their basis of negotiation when hammering out their last right's fees contract was that they were DVR proof, like football. Evidently, they aren't. They're not even close. Now, if they could point to football (and other so called "DVR-proof" content) and show ratings drops, they'd probably be off the hook. But they can't. Those other products still do huge numbers relative to their projected audience, so WWE can only blame themselves. They've blown their only major bargaining chip when it comes to the next round of negotiations. That basis got them a better deal than they probably deserved, but sponsors won't be so kind next time when they see these numbers. If anything, a higher number of views on Hulu might hurt them in that scenario, because it shows proof that they're not at all what they say they are. The current situation has very little effect on the day to day operations of WWE creative because it's a delayed domino effect. The rights deal is in place, so, short of cancellation, WWE is drawing the same amount of advertising dollars each week regardless of the fact that their ratings are in a full-blown free-fall. If they don't start working to change things, though, they're going to be in a world of trouble when the deal is up in a couple of years. But they can, NFL ratings have dropped over the past 4 seasons and will drop once again this year. NFL even publicly stated that their biggest obstacle is with young viewer retention. Yes, the NFL is a DVR proof product, yet is in a huge decline - like all major sports. It's across the board, Viacom Inc. is reporting a 20 percent drop among its youth aimed networks such as MTV and Nickelodeon. Ratings will continue to drop and will continue to drop for everyone. Cable television/Broadcast television will be dead before we know it. On the bright side, their financials look stronger than ever. Time will tell what kind of impact their ratings drop will have on sponsors in an age where streaming services are paramount for their key demo. Sure, they can use it as a scapegoat if they'd like, just like their excuse for phoning it in the fall is "cause football", but they'd be ignoring the bigger picture. It's irrefutable that cable TV and TV subscriptions are in a sharp decline, but the numbers are still there. NFL games are still pulling millions of people every week. The Big Bang Theory is shattering records (why, I'll never understand, but that's a different conversation entirely.) Wade Keller recently had a pretty good piece of audio regarding WWE's viewership decline in relation to the overall picture of television. As you correctly pointed out, things are down across the board, but WWE is trending downward faster than just about anything else. They've dropped upwards of 20% of their viewers on Raw in just under a year. That's incredibly alarming under any circumstance. Their business model will change with the times, and you could argue that they've already got a leg up with the Network in place. However, that doesn't excuse their complacency and general decline in product quality, and they're going to have to do something about it sooner rather than later. We'll get a much clearer picture of the situation in a couple of weeks when the quarterly report comes out. I have a hunch that Lesnar/Taker was hot-shotted to Hell in a Cell because WWE saw an alarming drop in Network subs after Summerslam. I could be wrong, of course, but it's a pretty logical explanation for throwing that match out there with absolutely no additional build and a completely unorthodox announcement.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 17, 2024 15:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2015 19:01:46 GMT -5
My friends had a good discussion about this today and how the WWE is at an all time low.
You've got a hack as the Champ, as Rollins is sloppy and hurt both Cena and Sting. He also sucks on the mic and talks like a 14 year old.
Great talent like Ambrose being wasted. We would love for Ambrose and Owens to either team up, or develop a feud.
Bray is a great heel and would be the perfect villain to take on the Authority, yet he is wasted on random feuds.
I like Roman Reigns, but he can't work the mic either and he lacks the presence Lesnar has. He also needs a whole new look.
Finally Cena, the best wrestler they have, is hated because they've been forced to ride him for the past 10 years. I hope with his vacation allows people to appreciate him a bit more whenever he returns. We brought up more complaints, but those were the main points.
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torriefan4life
Superstar
Joined on: Mar 9, 2012 13:27:48 GMT -5
Posts: 812
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Post by torriefan4life on Oct 28, 2015 12:15:42 GMT -5
Was this week's Raw another record low?
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Post by J12 on Oct 28, 2015 13:09:36 GMT -5
Was this week's Raw another record low? Nope, they moved up to a 2.46. Still a low rating by their standards, but a positive uptick nonetheless. Well deserved, given the quality of the show versus the previous few weeks.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 17, 2024 15:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2015 13:44:17 GMT -5
My friends had a good discussion about this today and how the WWE is at an all time low. You've got a hack as the Champ, as Rollins is sloppy and hurt both Cena and Sting. He also sucks on the mic and talks like a 14 year old. Great talent like Ambrose being wasted. We would love for Ambrose and Owens to either team up, or develop a feud. Bray is a great heel and would be the perfect villain to take on the Authority, yet he is wasted on random feuds. I like Roman Reigns, but he can't work the mic either and he lacks the presence Lesnar has. He also needs a whole new look. Finally Cena, the best wrestler they have, is hated because they've been forced to ride him for the past 10 years. I hope with his vacation allows people to appreciate him a bit more whenever he returns. We brought up more complaints, but those were the main points. You obviously dont watch if you think Rollins is sloppy and a hack.
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Post by knupmc on Oct 28, 2015 17:25:55 GMT -5
My friends had a good discussion about this today and how the WWE is at an all time low. You've got a hack as the Champ, as Rollins is sloppy and hurt both Cena and Sting. He also sucks on the mic and talks like a 14 year old. Great talent like Ambrose being wasted. We would love for Ambrose and Owens to either team up, or develop a feud. Bray is a great heel and would be the perfect villain to take on the Authority, yet he is wasted on random feuds. I like Roman Reigns, but he can't work the mic either and he lacks the presence Lesnar has. He also needs a whole new look. Finally Cena, the best wrestler they have, is hated because they've been forced to ride him for the past 10 years. I hope with his vacation allows people to appreciate him a bit more whenever he returns. We brought up more complaints, but those were the main points. You obviously dont watch if you think Rollins is sloppy and a hack. I'm a huge Rollins fan. He has a ton of sick moves, and is great on the mic. However, I do have to agree that he is somewhat sloppy. Like the whole broken nose with cena, that should've NEVER happened. Wwe had to cover their asses for Rollins huge botch. There's also more I just can't think of atm. But is Rollins great? Yes, but he is somewhat sloppy time to time.
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