859approved
Mid-Carder
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Post by 859approved on Feb 9, 2016 18:27:22 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of Daniel Bryan.
I respect his talent. Respect his work ethic. Respect his passion, but I never really "got it"
I was as sad as anyone upon seeing someone have to leave what they love because of an injury. I hate it.
But I saw a comment that bothered me on Facebook.
"Now all these big guys that don't deserve it will get a run."
What exactly classifies "deserving" a run? Who dictates who's worked harder and who's given more?
Tell me how Daniel working hard is any different than say, a Mark Henry working hard?
Is that a fair comparison? Maybe not. But still, when did it get to the point where fans felt so entitled to say who and who doesn't deserve something?
I'm genuinely curious.
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Post by Rob on Feb 9, 2016 18:49:07 GMT -5
He got pushed because he was over. If you cant get over, Youre going to fall flat on your face in this business.
Unless youre Roman Reigns.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Feb 9, 2016 18:53:38 GMT -5
It's a combination of many things including work ethic and ability. The most important things are your ability to get over with the crowd and the skill to own your character and make it work.
Look at New Day. If I told you their gimmick in a nutshell, you'd say that shouldn't work. However, they own it and it's arguably the best thing going in the company right now. They get more TV time because of how well they're nailing it.
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Post by attitudesback on Feb 9, 2016 19:12:31 GMT -5
Ability to connect with fans. Whether corporate likes you. Ratings during your segments. There's a lot of factors behind it.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 9, 2016 19:12:47 GMT -5
I think your backstage attitude has a lot to do with it also. If they like working with you, they'll put more time into getting you over (Titus). But if your lazy and unmotivated (Carlito), you get jobbed out and released.
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gawd6sic6™
Main Eventer
" I cross the lines you love to hate "
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Post by gawd6sic6™ on Feb 9, 2016 19:15:10 GMT -5
Tell me how Daniel working hard is any different than say, a Mark Henry working hard? The way I see this is , Bryan was in a large mans world. He had to work harder to get noticed, he has to sell more shirts, get louder ovations, be more entertaining, he couldn't just walk into a room and have everyone look at him because he was 6'5'' 300+ lbs. I have that issue. even if I don't want peoples attention I get it. I am 6'7'' 350 lbs. people cant help but look. So Mark and Bryan walk into the same room with the same people, at different times. I bet more often than not, more heads turn when mark walks in. Its akin to when short guys are in the NBA.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 19:33:20 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan was over... But deceivingly so. He had a gimmick that wasn't sustainable. Even if he was still wrestling, he would have never been the top guy. He is the definition of overrated. That being said, there are 3 main attributes to how big of a star you can be. And these ARE in order... 1) Personality/Character/Gimmick 2) Your Look 3) Your wrestling ability (and ironically, history has shown that this is pretty distant to the other two) In the 70s and 80s numbers 1 & 2 would be switched. Now let's dissect this by looking at some of the most popular wrestlers of all time vs. the ones who aren't. Shawn Michaels is probably the quintessential example of a guy who knocked it out of the park in all 3 categories. He kills it on the mic. He always looked cool (especially in 95-98 and again in 2002-2004 with the heartbreaker attire). And I don't even have to explain his wrestling ability. He was just phenomenal. Now. Let's take a look at a guy like Cesaro. No personality whatsoever. His look? He's strong, but a bland ass looking bald guy. Then again so was Stone Cold... BUUUUT Stone Cold knocked out of the park in category one! See where this is going? Hulk Hogan. Knocked it out of the park in category one. He had a great look for category two. And finally, he was total ing shyt in category three. And yet, he was the biggest name in wrestling for years and is still one of the most recognizable names and always will be. Ultimate Warrior was the same way for his three categories. The Rock... Kills category 1. Pretty good in category 2. Pretty good in category 3. Kevin Nash... Good in category 1. Great in category 2. Sack of shyt in category 3. Undertaker... ing awesome Look. Great in ring ability. Good promo work. And that's why been a staple for years and still going. Do you see a recurring theme here? Your personality/character and to a lesser extent look are the priorities. No one cares about Cesaros no matter what their in-ring abilities are. Of course right now, Roman Reigns is challenging that dynamic. That is because he is so good at categories 2 & 3 that they are trying to push him in the top spot... But his category 1 is just so lacking. Bless his heart... He tries. But it's just not there. It's like Will Smith's son being shoved down our throats in cinema. It's just not working. Of course, one major difference between Roman Reigns and Jaden Smith is that Reigns has talent and looks cool. I view Daniel Bryan and CM Punk as two deceptions to the ideology. Let's start with Punk. His in ring ability is good, although we've established that hardly means anything. His look was always good enough. His promo work was good, but became phenomenal with the pipe bomb. But that's the problem... You can't sustain a singular moment of defiance forever. The whole standing up to authority thing was cool and all... But once he won the title, there was nothing left to bitch about. And then he kept bitching. And people stopped caring. Then they turned him heel. And he bitched some more. He held the belt for over a year and couldn't draw. He blames creative but the truth is he just wasn't over in the long term as he seemed poised to be. The exact same thing can be said about Bryan. The defiant underdog. But once underdogs have their moments, no one cares. After he won at WM 30, people tuned in for the celebratory Raw and that was it. Ratings dipped hard and then he got injured. The only relevance he has had is about his neck and Brie. No one has been talking about his matches or WM moment because no one cares anymore. Well until now as everyone's jumping the "oh I'm so sad blah blah" bandwagon. But in time, that will be forgotten too. He was never the guy. Why? Well, let's look at the categories again. Daniel Brian: 1) Personality was fun at times but not sustainable. He's a great midcarder and should have been kept there. 2) His look? Not great. He's a shrimp. If he was Luchador athletic and feuding with Rey Mysterio? Sure. On the midcard. But feuding and beating the likes of Cena or Triple H??? GTFO. And finally 3)... Well, we've already established the meaning of 3. I rest my case.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 19:34:27 GMT -5
I dunno, WWE probably knows better than I do.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 9, 2016 19:44:58 GMT -5
I dunno, WWE probably knows better than I do. First thing I thought of and I figured you of all people would appreciate it.
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Miztery
Superstar
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Post by Miztery on Feb 9, 2016 19:54:16 GMT -5
Do your job well and get people to like or hate you. For example, Dean Ambrose is deserving of a push into the main event and Roman Reigns is deserving of a push back to the mid card.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
Joined on: Nov 25, 2011 16:25:54 GMT -5
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Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Feb 9, 2016 21:12:55 GMT -5
I think your backstage attitude has a lot to do with it also. If they like working with you, they'll put more time into getting you over (Titus). But if your lazy and unmotivated (Carlito), you get jobbed out and released. Hey, Carlito was fired for refusing rehab, get it right bub.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 9, 2016 21:17:31 GMT -5
I think your backstage attitude has a lot to do with it also. If they like working with you, they'll put more time into getting you over (Titus). But if your lazy and unmotivated (Carlito), you get jobbed out and released. Hey, Carlito was fired for refusing rehab, get it right bub. But he had a strong reputation of being lazy.
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Post by LA Times on Feb 9, 2016 21:17:56 GMT -5
He got pushed because he was over. If you cant get over, Youre going to fall flat on your face in this business. Unless youre Roman Reigns. This. Not only that, but the company did everything they could to stop Daniel Bryan from being over and it didnt work. They turned him into a comedy act. He was still over. They had him say "NO!" instead of "YES!". He was still over. They turned him heel. He was still over. They had him get beat down on Raw almost every week from Summerslam 2013 to Wrestlemania XXX. He was still over.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
Joined on: Nov 25, 2011 16:25:54 GMT -5
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Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Feb 9, 2016 21:21:37 GMT -5
Hey, Carlito was fired for refusing rehab, get it right bub. But he had a strong reputation of being lazy. Yeah, I am just yanking your chain, lol. Another good example would be Vader in WWE, well maybe not. He just pissed everyone off with his horrible hygiene and stupid mistakes.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 21:22:14 GMT -5
Hey, Carlito was fired for refusing rehab, get it right bub. But he had a strong reputation of being lazy. Wait, that Ric Flair promo where he called him lazy was legit? I had no idea, that was before my time on the IWC.
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859approved
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Joined on: Jun 13, 2011 10:16:17 GMT -5
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Post by 859approved on Feb 9, 2016 21:37:48 GMT -5
I agree with just about everything here...but I think I was misunderstood.
All of the things you guys responded with are correct. Those are the things that get you over to the fans. But my question was,
What MAKES someone more deserving?
When I see people say someone DESERVES something more than someone else does I don't understand it.
Every superstar on the roster works themselves to death to stay in shape, stay healthy, work on promos, work on their in ring work, they all attempt to go further than their natural talents. But what makes someone like Bryan more deserving of a push over someone else? Regardless of what fans like, what makes said superstar more deserving than the next guy? That's the logic of the IWC that I don't really understand.
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Post by ThugSuperstar on Feb 9, 2016 21:41:42 GMT -5
To Vince? Being 250+ lbs.
To everyone else? Being over with the crowd, which stems from putting on quality matches.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 9, 2016 21:57:00 GMT -5
But he had a strong reputation of being lazy. Wait, that Ric Flair promo where he called him lazy was legit? I had no idea, that was before my time on the IWC. Yeah I remember hearing (whether it was true or not, I dunno) that he had a tendency to phone it in. And that is why his push was halted. I also remember hearing they brought up Primo because they thought it would help, and it didn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 21:58:41 GMT -5
Wait, that Ric Flair promo where he called him lazy was legit? I had no idea, that was before my time on the IWC. Yeah I remember hearing (whether it was true or not, I dunno) that he had a tendency to phone it in. And that is why his push was halted. I also remember hearing they brought up Primo because they thought it would help, and it didn't. That's a shame, I really liked him as a kid.
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Post by marino13 on Feb 9, 2016 21:59:59 GMT -5
Yeah I remember hearing (whether it was true or not, I dunno) that he had a tendency to phone it in. And that is why his push was halted. I also remember hearing they brought up Primo because they thought it would help, and it didn't. That's a shame, I really liked him as a kid. Me too. Thought he was going to have a hell of a run.
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