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Post by Rob on Apr 18, 2016 17:54:39 GMT -5
Nobody has a "character" these days. When i think of Character, I think of Kane/Undertaker/Goldust etc.
I can use that same argument in the OP for most of the guys on the roster now. Whats Seth Rollins character? AJ's? Owens? Hell, What is Roman Reigns character? Dude still uses the Shield theme and still wrestles in riot gear, Yet he is so far away from what The Shield stood for, its not even funny. What is Charlottes character? She literally sits in her fathers shadow.
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Post by Happy Pizza on Apr 18, 2016 17:59:10 GMT -5
Right now even casual fans engage with the product using the Internet, and as fans we currently have access to both wrestling and superstars at an astounding level. The line between what is real and "fake" is almost nonexistent in some cases.
Take Daniel Bryan, for example. We all recognized that Bryan Danielson, the real human being, was talented, so we supported his character even though he wasn't getting support backstage. Eventually the theme of him being "held down" by the powers that be, something that really happened offscreen, bled into his onscreen persona. At that point Bryan Danielson is basically Daniel Bryan. We want Daniel Bryan to succeed because we all know Bryan Danielson's story and think he deserves it. There's his onscreen and offscreen motivation for wanting to be champion right there.
Back to Sami Zayn. Almost all of the people who cheer for him know his offscreen backstory. We know he used to be El Generico, so we chant ¡Olé! during his matches. We also know that Rami Sebei, the performer, has been an amazing wrestler for over a decade and deserves to be successful in the WWE. Just because he's been repackaged since coming to a new company does not mean we wipe his slate clean or that he should have to "prove himself" to us. His gimmick is that he is a great wrestler who used to wrestle under a mask and got great fan support, but deep down his fans never thought he'd get a shot at the WWE because he's not what Vince traditionally would look for. Against all odds he made it here, after 14 years, and now he's got a chip on his shoulder and wants to prove his ability to the world. When he delivers a promo it seems genuine and sincere, and since we know his backstory it's hard not to root for the guy. Boom. That's a character, and it's way more three-dimensional and fleshed out than "a wrestling clown" or "a wrestling lunatic." Because it's real. It has real history and as fans we have a real stake in this guy because we've known the character for ten plus years.
In summation, the internet and existing media will build narratives and backstories for these guys long before they get to WWE, so they no longer need "gimmicks" the way they used to. Look at some of the future NXT stars and why we are expected to (and very much do) care for their onscreen characters
-American Alpha (both fell short of success in real life) -Bayley (wanted to be a wrestler in real life, all her offscreen friends moved up before her.) -Shinsuke Nakamura (he's Shinsuke Nakamura...exactly as he was in NJPW and because of the internet we all are already familiar with his persona.)
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Post by JC Motors on Apr 18, 2016 18:03:17 GMT -5
Gimmicks are dead
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Post by dylan on Apr 18, 2016 18:20:07 GMT -5
Do you think he would be better off as WWE's resident Milkman? A Mailman? Or a disgruntled office worker? Daniel Bryan didn't really have a gimmick. Neither did Bret or Benoit. All played the underdog that can out wrestle anyone. And all of them made it to the top. Because sometimes talent supersedes a shtick. IMHO Zayn has all the talent in the world, and if booked as an underdog, he will have a very successful career by the time it's all said and done. Exactly. Not everyone needs some dumb gimmick to get over, just like not every match needs to have some story to it to explain why it's happening.
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 18, 2016 18:44:10 GMT -5
I agree. Look over at TNAs main event scene and everyone is defined by their gimmick or personality, which in turn makes me care about what they're doing. Mike Bennett is the Miracle, Matt Hardy is Iconic, EC3 was born into stardom, and Drew Galloway is the anyone, anytime ass kicker.
I like how the defense mode goes on and people revert to New Gen gimmicks as the counter argument. That's not how gimmicks work anymore. Zayn needs something that defines him. Ambrose is crazy, Rollins is the architect, Miz is a movie star in his own mind, Brock is the Beast. Zayn needs that imo. Something that gives him motivation when he's facing anyone outside of Kevin Owens.
Work rate is cool and all but that doesn't make me care 52 Monday's in a row. And honestly, if you're a fan of just work rate, Raw really isn't the show for that kind of thing. Zayn's not in NXT anymore. It's time to figure out what's going to get him over.
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Post by King Richius on Apr 18, 2016 18:48:51 GMT -5
I agree. Look over at TNAs main event scene and everyone is defined by their gimmick or personality, which in turn makes me care about what they're doing. Mike Bennett is the Miracle, Matt Hardy is Iconic, EC3 was born into stardom, and Drew Galloway is the anyone, anytime ass kicker. I like how the defense mode goes on and people revert to New Gen gimmicks as the counter argument. That's not how gimmicks work anymore. Zayn needs something that defines him. Ambrose is crazy, Rollins is the architect, Miz is a movie star in his own mind, Brock is the Beast. Zayn needs that imo. Something that gives him motivation when he's facing anyone outside of Kevin Owens. Work rate is cool and all but that doesn't make me care 52 Monday's in a row. And honestly, if you're a fan of just work rate, Raw really isn't the show for that kind of thing. Zayn's not in NXT anymore. It's time to figure out what's going to get him over. GET OUT OF MY HEAD! You've been making so many posts in a bunch of threads lately that are exactly what I was about to say in my own post.
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jacktunney
Superstar
Joined on: Jan 3, 2012 22:50:33 GMT -5
Posts: 735
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Post by jacktunney on Apr 18, 2016 18:51:01 GMT -5
People seems to really have a hard time differentiating between 'character' and 'gimmick'
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Post by kazoosandstreamers on Apr 18, 2016 18:51:53 GMT -5
He's just a common man.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Apr 18, 2016 19:00:34 GMT -5
On a serious note why didn't WWE debut him as EL Generico?
Don't get me wrong I like him as Sami Zayn but he would've been a bigger money maker as EL Generico. Kids would've loved his character and Vince could've made millions on mask sales.
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hbkowns
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 15, 2011 23:33:52 GMT -5
Posts: 4,275
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Post by hbkowns on Apr 18, 2016 19:07:28 GMT -5
I agree. Look over at TNAs main event scene and everyone is defined by their gimmick or personality, which in turn makes me care about what they're doing. Mike Bennett is the Miracle, Matt Hardy is Iconic, EC3 was born into stardom, and Drew Galloway is the anyone, anytime ass kicker. I like how the defense mode goes on and people revert to New Gen gimmicks as the counter argument. That's not how gimmicks work anymore. Zayn needs something that defines him. Ambrose is crazy, Rollins is the architect, Miz is a movie star in his own mind, Brock is the Beast. Zayn needs that imo. Something that gives him motivation when he's facing anyone outside of Kevin Owens. Work rate is cool and all but that doesn't make me care 52 Monday's in a row. And honestly, if you're a fan of just work rate, Raw really isn't the show for that kind of thing. Zayn's not in NXT anymore. It's time to figure out what's going to get him over. I could tell you that you are one of the very few that care about TNA's main event scene, and that's not a knock at you lol. But you need to give him time to show what he's all about. He's essentially the underdog that always gives a damn good fight but always falls short. He's a world-traveled wrestler who loved punk rock and is positive. The "underdog from the underground" go back and listen to a few of his backstage interviews from the past 3 weeks and that's his character.
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BigT
Main Eventer
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Post by BigT on Apr 18, 2016 19:11:49 GMT -5
I think using Sami Zayn as an example here isn't the best choice, mainly because he's been getting fantastic reactions ever since he debuted on the main roster. And I agree I think at the very least WWE need to show the history behind the Zayn/Owens feud more, but Zayn is so easy for the fans to love and support that they haven't needed to overload his character with anything too gimmicky. They've just said he's 'the underdog from the underground' and let his natural charisma and ability get him over from the start.
And really, the underdog from the underground is as much a gimmick as crazy Dean Ambrose
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 19:20:01 GMT -5
EWR says "Underdog"
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Post by LA Times on Apr 18, 2016 19:23:01 GMT -5
Looks like a scrawny hipster ginger who dresses like a taxi driver
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Post by Rule 30 on Apr 18, 2016 19:25:46 GMT -5
He is a genuinely good guy with a lot of heart, and he wants to be the very best in the world. He's come to the main roster for revenge on KO after he was stabbed in the back by him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 19:29:09 GMT -5
Do you think he would be better off as WWE's resident Milkman? A Mailman? Or a disgruntled office worker? Daniel Bryan didn't really have a gimmick. Neither did Bret or Benoit. All played the underdog that can out wrestle anyone. And all of them made it to the top. Because sometimes talent supersedes a shtick. IMHO Zayn has all the talent in the world, and if booked as an underdog, he will have a very successful career by the time it's all said and done. Characters and gimmicks aren't the same thing. Dunno why people keep referring to it as such. And to be frank, no one has been able to refute any of my points other than he's an "underdog" or a "good guy". Anyone can be that. Same can be said for so many of the roster, I'm just using Sami as the example.
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Post by Rule 30 on Apr 18, 2016 19:39:05 GMT -5
Do you think he would be better off as WWE's resident Milkman? A Mailman? Or a disgruntled office worker? Daniel Bryan didn't really have a gimmick. Neither did Bret or Benoit. All played the underdog that can out wrestle anyone. And all of them made it to the top. Because sometimes talent supersedes a shtick. IMHO Zayn has all the talent in the world, and if booked as an underdog, he will have a very successful career by the time it's all said and done. Characters and gimmicks aren't the same thing. Dunno why people keep referring to it as such. And to be frank, no one has been able to refute any of my points other than he's an "underdog" or a "good guy". Anyone can be that. Same can be said for so many of the roster, I'm just using Sami as the example. Good guy (which is just the most basic description of his character) is an unique and likable character when everyone else is a giant bunghole though
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 19:41:10 GMT -5
Characters and gimmicks aren't the same thing. Dunno why people keep referring to it as such. And to be frank, no one has been able to refute any of my points other than he's an "underdog" or a "good guy". Anyone can be that. Same can be said for so many of the roster, I'm just using Sami as the example. Good guy (which is just the most basic description of his character) is an unique and likable character when everyone else is a giant bunghole though How is being a good guy a unique trait? There's plenty of good guys on the roster.
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Post by Rule 30 on Apr 18, 2016 19:48:06 GMT -5
Good guy (which is just the most basic description of his character) is an unique and likable character when everyone else is a giant bunghole though How is being a good guy a unique trait? There's plenty of good guys on the roster. It doesn't have to be that unique. Daniel Bryan was a good guy with a one word catchphrase... worked out well for him
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 19:53:41 GMT -5
How is being a good guy a unique trait? There's plenty of good guys on the roster. It doesn't have to be unique. Daniel Bryan was a good guy with a one word catchphrase... worked out well for him Bryan's character evolved into being "held down" by the machine. He was the little guy, the guy who just wasn't "good enough". That pretty much defined him once he started breaking into the main event scene and they turned that into a huge storyline. That's more than just being a good guy.
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Post by Rule 30 on Apr 18, 2016 19:56:09 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be unique. Daniel Bryan was a good guy with a one word catchphrase... worked out well for him Bryan's character evolved into being "held down" by the machine. That pretty much defined him once he started breaking into the main event scene and they turned that into a huge storyline. That's more than just being a good guy. Right... after three years. Sami's been on RAW for a month. Plenty of time to develop.
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