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Post by K5 on Apr 18, 2016 19:56:35 GMT -5
yep, could not agree more. substantial amounts of character development missing from wwe creative.
i like Sami, and he's talented, but I'm not too emotionally invested in him yet. I was hoping him and Owen's feud would flesh out a bit, but they left most of that in nxt apparently
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 19:57:48 GMT -5
Bryan's character evolved into being "held down" by the machine. That pretty much defined him once he started breaking into the main event scene and they turned that into a huge storyline. That's more than just being a good guy. Right... after three years. Sami's been on RAW for a month. Plenty of time to develop. Fair enough. Due to the direction they're obviously taking, who knows if that'll ever happen.
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China Claus
Main Eventer
I can feeel your sensitivity
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Post by China Claus on Apr 18, 2016 20:23:27 GMT -5
I just wish some of these guys had a little more direction. Do I watch NXT? No. Never have. Have I ever seen one of Zayn's matches outside of WWE? No. The way Zayn was just randomly thrown into the main roster was somewhat confusing to me. And it seems WWE just wants you to fill in the blanks.
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Post by Word™ on Apr 18, 2016 21:39:53 GMT -5
You don't always need a gimmick.
Gimmicks are usually used to get one over.. If he's getting over off of his skill in the ring, what would he need a gimmick for?
What's wrong with just being a wrestler?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 22:31:57 GMT -5
To be fair, the majority of superstars who aren't playing monsters or in comedy roles are really just themselves slightly escalated.
But to answer you're question, he's relatable, great wrestler, good natural look and just comes off as the underdog you want to see win.
I'd say hes similar to Daniel bryan except much more suited to the wwe way than bryan ever was, if that makes any sense. Say if you took 2012 bryan and had sami zayn as he is now, who would you expect to be headlining wrestlemania first, because I know I'd be picking zayn, not because he's better but because he's very suited to the wwe style and has that John cena like good guy character/charisma but on a much more relatable level.
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hbkowns
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Post by hbkowns on Apr 18, 2016 22:49:09 GMT -5
Looks like a scrawny hipster ginger who dresses like a taxi driver Lol
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TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Apr 18, 2016 22:56:54 GMT -5
I'm as old school as it gets, but gimmicks are not the same thing as character. Zayn has plenty of natural charisma and is a character. He simply doesn't have a gimmick, he's just himself. He's a ska loving wrestling underdog and that is great.
What guys like him need are personality profiles, similar to what WCCW did so well in the 80s. We need to get to know these guys better, that I agree with. Hell WWF TNT even served this purpose, we don't get to hear enough from the talents imo.
So it's not a gimmick that's needed, it's more focus on who these men and women are.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 0:13:07 GMT -5
He likes ska music and hipster hats.
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Post by bigshab421 on Apr 19, 2016 7:11:53 GMT -5
Not everybody needs a gimmick, but ffs give us a story, even some background info. Look at Crews and Breeze. Just shot right into the spotlight without intro. It rarely works when they do that.
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 19, 2016 7:58:43 GMT -5
Gimmick and character are the exact same word. Literally, they are interchangeable. I don't know why people keep trying to say that they aren't.
Answer this question for me; If I didn't watch NXT, why do I care about Sami Zayn? or the Vaudevillians, or Apollo Crews, or Tyler Breeze? WWE is failing at introducing new characters because they aren't providing them with backstory or substance. "But ZOMG, YAYz for good Work Ratez!"
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Apr 19, 2016 8:29:11 GMT -5
Not everybody needs a gimmick, but ffs give us a story, even some background info. Look at Crews and Breeze. Just shot right into the spotlight without intro. It rarely works when they do that. They half assedly tried with a Breeze. They crammed everything about Breezes gimmick into his debut promo. But that happened on SD and The Old running the joint doesn't like him so right into jobberville he went. And to be frank, no one has been able to refute any of my points other than he's an "underdog" or a "good guy". Anyone can be that. Same can be said for so many of the roster, I'm just using Sami as the example. Wells has.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 10:15:44 GMT -5
The issue I keep seeing brought up is "I don't watch NXT" or "Not everyone watches NXT so how can they know when people are just brought up?"
In the Attitude Era/Monday Night Wars, did everyone manage to watch WWF/WCW/ECW? Three companies that had talent jumping from company to company all the time, a lot of the time without vignettes. The announcers would just say things like "Oh my god, that's Rhyno!" During the Invasion, most of the guys didn't get a proper introduction. Did people complain "How am I supposed to know who these guys are?!" Because let's me fair, most with valuable time did not watch dying WCW.
Hell when guys like Brock, Cena, Orton, Batista came up from OVW, did fans know who they were? Or when WWECW was basically the televised NXT and guys like Punk, Sheamus, and Kofi started out there. Did RAW explain to you good enough who they were? Because the casual fan didn't watch that sh**.
Today's wrestling is no different except for the fact that the NXT are coming from WWEs new version of developmental. Which if you have the network you have the ability to go check out. They even say "Hey this is NXTs Sami Zayn! Or Kevin Owens!" If you can't go and watch a show or two then alright then that's on you. No one is asking you to watch the catalog.
Fact is that NXT is hot, and every WWE continue to push it being on then network. Everyone knows what it is. If you can't make time to watch a less than a hour show, well damn. Not to mention it takes a couple minutes to get online and do research. You know, online, what just about everyone has access to. What most of you use to exclaim "I don't have time to watch NXT!" but always seem to be on here.
Just my opinions.....
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 19, 2016 12:19:40 GMT -5
The issue I keep seeing brought up is "I don't watch NXT" or "Not everyone watches NXT so how can they know when people are just brought up?" In the Attitude Era/Monday Night Wars, did everyone manage to watch WWF/WCW/ECW? Three companies that had talent jumping from company to company all the time, a lot of the time without vignettes. The announcers would just say things like "Oh my god, that's Rhyno!" During the Invasion, most of the guys didn't get a proper introduction. Did people complain "How am I supposed to know who these guys are?!" Because let's me fair, most with valuable time did not watch dying WCW. Hell when guys like Brock, Cena, Orton, Batista came up from OVW, did fans know who they were? Or when WWECW was basically the televised NXT and guys like Punk, Sheamus, and Kofi started out there. Did RAW explain to you good enough who they were? Because the casual fan didn't watch that sh**. Today's wrestling is no different except for the fact that the NXT are coming from WWEs new version of developmental. Which if you have the network you have the ability to go check out. They even say "Hey this is NXTs Sami Zayn! Or Kevin Owens!" If you can't go and watch a show or two then alright then that's on you. No one is asking you to watch the catalog. Fact is that NXT is hot, and every WWE continue to push it being on then network. Everyone knows what it is. If you can't make time to watch a less than a hour show, well damn. Not to mention it takes a couple minutes to get online and do research. You know, online, what just about everyone has access to. What most of you use to exclaim "I don't have time to watch NXT!" but always seem to be on here. Just my opinions..... No. People shouldn't have to pay $10 a month and watch NXT in order to understand what is happening on Raw. I also think it's incredibly douchey to try and dictate what people do with an hour of their life each week but that's your prerogative. No. People knowing about NXT is not anywhere near to knowing about guys in competing companies during the Monday Night Wars. The WWE Network has like 1.5 million subscribers total, I think. Like 8-10 million people a week were watching wrestling during the MNW. So someone jumping from WCW would be extremely more familiar to the WWF audience in 1999 than someone jumping from NXT in 2016. No. As an extension of the previous comment, guys weren't jumping from company to company during that time without gimmicks. The Radicalz were a clearly defined gimmick stable. Raven jumped to WCW with an outcast gimmick and all of his lackeys. Buff Bagwell, he was THE Stuff. Big Pappa Pump was the man with largest arms in the world and he was super good at mathematics. DDP had a creepy smile, Booker T was 5 times everything, William Regal was a pompous Brit, Kurt Angle was an Olympic Gold Medalist, and on and on. No. Guy's like Punk, Orton and Cena weren't gimmick-less in the mid 2000s, at least not when they got over. Heyman put Punk over right away in WWECW with his gimmick. Orton got over as the Legend Killer. Cena was a rapper. Batista was a disaster until he became a member of Evolution, and then the Animal. Brock was an amateur wrestling phenom. No. I shouldn't have to Google a guy to know why I care about him during a show I'm currently watching. Which would largely entail me watching hours of YouTube videos to even get a grasp of what you're talking about. We get it. You love Sami Zayn. I love Sami Zayn too. But I want everyone to love Sami and I don't think the people who watch just Raw understand why the rest of us love Sami. The difference between me and you though is I feel it's WWE's, and Sami Zyan's, job to get people onboard. If you're good with him just having good matches and losing all the time, and fans casually understanding he's a lovable loser, then I also don't want to hear you complaining a year from now that he's being "misused" by WWE because he's still at the same level and doing the same kind of stuff around the midcard.
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Post by T R W on Apr 19, 2016 12:26:28 GMT -5
I don't think you need a character so much, as you need to have an exciting or interesting personality. 9/10 times the best and most successful wrestlers are people who are themselves amped up to 11. I think Zayn has it pretty well. Crews definitely needs to work on it.
Why is someone there? Honestly, there should only be one answer to that. To be the best. As far as who they are, well that's the kind of thing that in ring charisma and personality can answer if done properly, but it is a very lost art in the WWE. Promos do it too, but hell they haven't even given Crews a shot at that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 12:36:07 GMT -5
The issue I keep seeing brought up is "I don't watch NXT" or "Not everyone watches NXT so how can they know when people are just brought up?" In the Attitude Era/Monday Night Wars, did everyone manage to watch WWF/WCW/ECW? Three companies that had talent jumping from company to company all the time, a lot of the time without vignettes. The announcers would just say things like "Oh my god, that's Rhyno!" During the Invasion, most of the guys didn't get a proper introduction. Did people complain "How am I supposed to know who these guys are?!" Because let's me fair, most with valuable time did not watch dying WCW. Hell when guys like Brock, Cena, Orton, Batista came up from OVW, did fans know who they were? Or when WWECW was basically the televised NXT and guys like Punk, Sheamus, and Kofi started out there. Did RAW explain to you good enough who they were? Because the casual fan didn't watch that sh**. Today's wrestling is no different except for the fact that the NXT are coming from WWEs new version of developmental. Which if you have the network you have the ability to go check out. They even say "Hey this is NXTs Sami Zayn! Or Kevin Owens!" If you can't go and watch a show or two then alright then that's on you. No one is asking you to watch the catalog. Fact is that NXT is hot, and every WWE continue to push it being on then network. Everyone knows what it is. If you can't make time to watch a less than a hour show, well damn. Not to mention it takes a couple minutes to get online and do research. You know, online, what just about everyone has access to. What most of you use to exclaim "I don't have time to watch NXT!" but always seem to be on here. Just my opinions..... No. People shouldn't have to pay $10 a month and watch NXT in order to understand what is happening on Raw. I also think it's incredibly douchey to try and dictate what people do with an hour of their life each week but that's your prerogative. No. People knowing about NXT is not anywhere near to knowing about guys in competing companies during the Monday Night Wars. The WWE Network has like 1.5 million subscribers total, I think. Like 8-10 million people a week were watching wrestling during the MNW. So someone jumping from WCW would be extremely more familiar to the WWF audience in 1999 than someone jumping from NXT in 2016. No. As an extension of the previous comment, guys weren't jumping from company to company during that time without gimmicks. The Radicalz were a clearly defined gimmick stable. Raven jumped to WCW with an outcast gimmick and all of his lackeys. Buff Bagwell, he was THE Stuff. Big Pappa Pump was the man with largest arms in the world and he was super good at mathematics. DDP had a creepy smile, Booker T was 5 times everything, William Regal was a pompous Brit, Kurt Angle was an Olympic Gold Medalist, and on and on. No. Guy's like Punk, Orton and Cena weren't gimmick-less in the mid 2000s, at least not when they got over. Heyman put Punk over right away in WWECW with his gimmick. Orton got over as the Legend Killer. Cena was a rapper. Batista was a disaster until he became a member of Evolution, and then the Animal. Brock was an amateur wrestling phenom. No. I shouldn't have to Google a guy to know why I care about him during a show I'm currently watching. Which would largely entail me watching hours of YouTube videos to even get a grasp of what you're talking about. We get it. You love Sami Zayn. I love Sami Zayn too. But I want everyone to love Sami and I don't think the people who watch just Raw understand why the rest of us love Sami. The difference between me and you though is I feel it's WWE's, and Sami Zyan's, job to get people onboard. If you're good with him just having good matches and losing all the time, and fans casually understanding he's a lovable loser, then I also don't want to hear you complaining a year from now that he's being "misused" by WWE because he's still at the same level and doing the same kind of stuff around the midcard. I was gonna respond, but this is pretty much perfect. People are not watching wrestling as much as they were during the Monday Night Wars. People should not have to google who these people are, nor should they be forced to buy the Network and watch NXT. It's WWE's job to make them care. I was also going to respond to other people, but my warning bar is already scarily high so forget that. I don't think you need a character so much, as you need to have an exciting or interesting personality. 9/10 times the best and most successful wrestlers are people who are themselves amped up to 11. I think Zayn has it pretty well. Crews definitely needs to work on it. Why is someone there? Honestly, there should only be one answer to that. To be the best. As far as who they are, well that's the kind of thing that in ring charisma and personality can answer if done properly, but it is a very lost art in the WWE. Promos do it too, but hell they haven't even given Crews a shot at that. All they've showed the audience is that Crews is a "great athlete!" How the heck is anyone supposed to get behind this guy? Why do you dudes think that Midcarders from the Hulkamania era are bigger stars than half of the roster today? They all had interesting personalities, clearly defined characteristics, compelling stories and so on. Being a great athlete is not a character. And to reiterate gimmicks are not the same things as having a character or even personality.They've barely let AJ Styles speak since his debut, because everyone who knows him knows that he can't cut a good promo to save his life.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 12:47:47 GMT -5
The issue I keep seeing brought up is "I don't watch NXT" or "Not everyone watches NXT so how can they know when people are just brought up?" In the Attitude Era/Monday Night Wars, did everyone manage to watch WWF/WCW/ECW? Three companies that had talent jumping from company to company all the time, a lot of the time without vignettes. The announcers would just say things like "Oh my god, that's Rhyno!" During the Invasion, most of the guys didn't get a proper introduction. Did people complain "How am I supposed to know who these guys are?!" Because let's me fair, most with valuable time did not watch dying WCW. Hell when guys like Brock, Cena, Orton, Batista came up from OVW, did fans know who they were? Or when WWECW was basically the televised NXT and guys like Punk, Sheamus, and Kofi started out there. Did RAW explain to you good enough who they were? Because the casual fan didn't watch that sh**. Today's wrestling is no different except for the fact that the NXT are coming from WWEs new version of developmental. Which if you have the network you have the ability to go check out. They even say "Hey this is NXTs Sami Zayn! Or Kevin Owens!" If you can't go and watch a show or two then alright then that's on you. No one is asking you to watch the catalog. Fact is that NXT is hot, and every WWE continue to push it being on then network. Everyone knows what it is. If you can't make time to watch a less than a hour show, well damn. Not to mention it takes a couple minutes to get online and do research. You know, online, what just about everyone has access to. What most of you use to exclaim "I don't have time to watch NXT!" but always seem to be on here. Just my opinions..... No. People shouldn't have to pay $10 a month and watch NXT in order to understand what is happening on Raw. I also think it's incredibly douchey to try and dictate what people do with an hour of their life each week but that's your prerogative. No. People knowing about NXT is not anywhere near to knowing about guys in competing companies during the Monday Night Wars. The WWE Network has like 1.5 million subscribers total, I think. Like 8-10 million people a week were watching wrestling during the MNW. So someone jumping from WCW would be extremely more familiar to the WWF audience in 1999 than someone jumping from NXT in 2016. No. As an extension of the previous comment, guys weren't jumping from company to company during that time without gimmicks. The Radicalz were a clearly defined gimmick stable. Raven jumped to WCW with an outcast gimmick and all of his lackeys. Buff Bagwell, he was THE Stuff. Big Pappa Pump was the man with largest arms in the world and he was super good at mathematics. DDP had a creepy smile, Booker T was 5 times everything, William Regal was a pompous Brit, Kurt Angle was an Olympic Gold Medalist, and on and on. No. Guy's like Punk, Orton and Cena weren't gimmick-less in the mid 2000s, at least not when they got over. Heyman put Punk over right away in WWECW with his gimmick. Orton got over as the Legend Killer. Cena was a rapper. Batista was a disaster until he became a member of Evolution, and then the Animal. Brock was an amateur wrestling phenom. No. I shouldn't have to Google a guy to know why I care about him during a show I'm currently watching. Which would largely entail me watching hours of YouTube videos to even get a grasp of what you're talking about. We get it. You love Sami Zayn. I love Sami Zayn too. But I want everyone to love Sami and I don't think the people who watch just Raw understand why the rest of us love Sami. The difference between me and you though is I feel it's WWE's, and Sami Zyan's, job to get people onboard. If you're good with him just having good matches and losing all the time, and fans casually understanding he's a lovable loser, then I also don't want to hear you complaining a year from now that he's being "misused" by WWE because he's still at the same level and doing the same kind of stuff around the midcard. Yes, it's "douchey" of me to think wrestling fans would want to put in some type of effort outside watching Raw. They must not be watching the PPVs though as they apparently don't have the network. So how do they know what's going on?! If people don't want to watch NXT, do research, or even have the network, that is fine with me. That's their choice. All I know is personally, when I want to know about something, I look into it and try and learn about it over expecting everything to be explained up front. And pointing out the difference in viewership of that era and network subscriptions means nothing when it comes to the point I was trying to make. My point was that people actually put in effort to watch all of those different companies back then. They'd take time to what different channels, read magazines, and research different wrestling. That's why it was so successful back then. And Orton spent the first year doing nothing and Cena was a bland midcarder until the rap thing. Sami has been around two months. In those two months it has been explained he wrestled all over the world, including NXT which you could watch if you wanted to, is a fighting underdog, and is in WWE to prove he belongs. It's also been explained Owens is his former best friend who turned on him and is now his arch rival. It's been explained that Owens and Sami are trying to out compete each other to prove they are the better wrestler. So I have no ing clue where people are getting "I don't understand why Sami is there!" If this thread was about Apollo, who is a phenomenal athlete but has no direction yet, then I'd understand. Because even in NXT not much development was given to him. But outside that, maybe I guess I'm just "douchey" for not understanding the issue with Sami's development two month into his main roster, over, run.
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Post by The Kevstaaa on Apr 19, 2016 12:53:24 GMT -5
I don't think you need a character so much, as you need to have an exciting or interesting personality. 9/10 times the best and most successful wrestlers are people who are themselves amped up to 11. I think Zayn has it pretty well. Crews definitely needs to work on it. Why is someone there? Honestly, there should only be one answer to that. To be the best. As far as who they are, well that's the kind of thing that in ring charisma and personality can answer if done properly, but it is a very lost art in the WWE. Promos do it too, but hell they haven't even given Crews a shot at that. You understand. You have a valid outlook on this and said so without coming off as a douche. I salute you. The interesting personality is a great point. As long as people can relate and connect to Sami Zayn, he'll be fine. Something about him sticks. With Apollo Crews, it hasn't yet.
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Post by Weemanv1 on Apr 19, 2016 12:59:09 GMT -5
I mean, this thread is going in circles at this point. People gave answers, other people said no, that's not what I'm looking for, try again. To me that's a pretty good sign that this thread isn't looking for discussion but for people to prove each other right rather than wrong.
My question is, why is this really an issue? What is this sudden obsession with characters, and this "LOLZWORKRATE" crap? People rag on codyrhodesdiva for her weird obsessions with certain topics, but at least that's harmless and she's not trying to insult anyone's tastes.
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Post by ~ Cymru ~ on Apr 19, 2016 12:59:53 GMT -5
I'm with you. And I'm sure if someones bored enough to scan through my old posts, you'll find me saying a numerous occasions about people being "just happy to be there" and thats their gimmick. I have the same feeling towards Apollo Crews and Neville. I'd rather watch Zayn than Crews but thats beside the point.
Kofi Kingston was another, after the "Jamaican" bit, for years he had the "im just glad to be here" gimmick, yeah he won a load of titles but does anyone really remember them or even care, it wasnt until he was repackaged as a member of New Day that he really took off.
That whole AJ vs Owens thing could have been handled so much better. Right from the get go at the Royal Rumble. Owens runs down Styles on raw after eliminating him from the rumble, Styles says Owens couldnt beat him 1 on 1, Owens says he can and he will next week on raw. week after, Owens attacks styles back stage AJ is left on the floor with refs and the backstage gang around him calling for EMT's, match time Styles cant make it out Owens brags and gets the ref to hold up his arm victorious. Next week on raw Styles isnt there selling his injury Owens says how AJ Styles is weak and should have stayed in bingo halls where he was safer. The following week Styles comes back, has the match with Owens and wins (non title) 4th week AJ says he's beat the champion, and wants a match for the gold at *points to wresltemania sign*, KO refuses, say's Styles was lucky and isnt a worthy contender. Authority make #1 contendership for IC title as the main event Styles vs *whoever* Styles wins.
to me that sounds like better booking, that's 4 weeks worth a show and 2 weeks to build the match once its official. There's a bit of back story from the Rumble, promotes Owens as the heel and AJ as the face really well. They seem to over look stories or just plain not bother with them unless you're Reigns or one of the wrestlemania/summerslam part timers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2016 13:01:21 GMT -5
I mean, this thread is going in circles at this point. People gave answers, other people said no, that's not what I'm looking for, try again. To me that's a pretty good sign that this thread isn't looking for discussion but for people to prove each other right rather than wrong. My question is, why is this really an issue? What is this sudden obsession with characters, and this "LOLZWORKRATE" crap? People rag on codyrhodesdiva for her weird obsessions with certain topics, but at least that's harmless and she's not trying to insult anyone's tastes. You're right. I'm just so incredibly frustrated with the direction of WWE at the moment. Everything has been said before. There's nothing left to say anymore. Plus, peeps have started throwing out insults and that wasn't my intention. marino13 feel free to lock it up.
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