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Post by J-MANN on Jul 6, 2016 9:32:01 GMT -5
Do you think we will ever see WWE ratings like they were towards the end of the Monday night wars? I was just sitting here thinking, how bad will the WWE be hurting once The Undertaker is officially done, when John Cena is officially retired, and even when Brock doesn't feel like showing up at all anymore? They have a ton of talent up and coming but do you think they can carry the company to new heights?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 9:34:39 GMT -5
Probably not, no.
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Nathan from Aus
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jul 3, 2010 19:58:33 GMT -5
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Post by Nathan from Aus on Jul 6, 2016 9:37:58 GMT -5
Some things go stale, some don't, some have a dry spell.
If WWE found a way to re-invent themselves, new writers and a new direction, then maybe.
But that could be years, maybe 10 plus. The product has been stagnant since about '06 and became a little bit interesting when Seth won at WM
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Post by J-MANN on Jul 6, 2016 9:43:35 GMT -5
Seth Rollins vs. John Cena at SummerSlam last year was the first time I said to myself, Seth can carry this company if they give him the right opportunities. And since he's made his return from knee surgery his promos have been amazing. I think the talent is there, the WWE just has to find a way to use them right.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 9:58:37 GMT -5
It would legitimately shock me if they ever get another 5
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 6, 2016 10:04:12 GMT -5
But those guys you mentioned don't even bring the ratings up much. Brock's Raw appearances don't even rise ratings any more and you would have to be Austin or Rock for fans to tune in.
As for the future. ATM on the current roster I can only see Ambrose and Rollins being draws. I would like to say Wyatt aswell but if he keeps getting buried fans will lose interest.
You also have great wrestlers like Zayn, Crews, Kalisto, Neville etc but sadly as good as they are they don't have strong enough characters for fans to connect with and that would risk main event pushes.
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Post by Sizzle on Jul 6, 2016 10:26:28 GMT -5
Ratings will never be as high as they were in the Attitude Era.
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Post by marino13 on Jul 6, 2016 10:27:35 GMT -5
With the way TV is nowadays, with everyone using a stream or a DVR, I think the rating system is flawed. It'll never reach the height it once once because there are so many more options than there was back in the late 90's.
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Post by punksnotdead on Jul 6, 2016 10:55:43 GMT -5
With the way TV is nowadays, with everyone using a stream or a DVR, I think the rating system is flawed. It'll never reach the height it once once because there are so many more options than there was back in the late 90's. It seems like they account for a lot of that now though. I just read an article about the GoTs ratings not that long ago and they mention accounting for DVR, replay, HBO Go, and all of that to arrive at the accumulated rating of 23 million viewers a week or whatever. So you can't sell this idea that shows like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones are reaching ratings highs with all of the multiple formats for viewing but then try and sell the idea that WWE isn't getting high ratings because of that stuff. Not to mention, stuff like Game of Thrones and Walking Dead are going to get far more torrent downloads than something like Raw. I just think the interest in pro wrestling has been on a steady decline for going on 10 to 12 years now. WrestleMania has become its own spectacle that people will go checkout but tuning in from week-to-week is no longer a priority, nor is it must see tv. The show is incredibly formulaic and if you miss it one week then you can certainly get caught up in the next week or even just at the PPV. That's one thing the MNWs always brought to us was cliffhangers and unexpected surprises. "What will happen next?!" Now I'm not asking to bring back pillow fights and beer trucks but I think WWE has certainly been resting on their laurels to the point where people just got bored and stopped watching. It's not Monday Night Football, or people watching on DVR imo. It's just the fact that WWE isn't cool, and it might not be ever again. Pro wrestling has a cult like fandom now. It's a tighter knit group of people who support the product. Luckily, quite a number of those people spread their interest across the board to stuff like ROH, or LU, or TNA, or their local VFW show, and they support WWE too. So that type of mentality is good for the industry as a whole. Even that though is a silver lining to where WWE used to be 10 years ago. |
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Post by J12 on Jul 6, 2016 11:14:29 GMT -5
With the way TV is nowadays, with everyone using a stream or a DVR, I think the rating system is flawed. It'll never reach the height it once once because there are so many more options than there was back in the late 90's. It seems like they account for a lot of that now though. I just read an article about the GoTs ratings not that long ago and they mention accounting for DVR, replay, HBO Go, and all of that to arrive at the accumulated rating of 23 million viewers a week or whatever. So you can't sell this idea that shows like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones are reaching ratings highs with all of the multiple formats for viewing but then try and sell the idea that WWE isn't getting high ratings because of that stuff. Not to mention, stuff like Game of Thrones and Walking Dead are going to get far more torrent downloads than something like Raw. I just think the interest in pro wrestling has been on a steady decline for going on 10 to 12 years now. WrestleMania has become its own spectacle that people will go checkout but tuning in from week-to-week is no longer a priority, nor is it must see tv. The show is incredibly formulaic and if you miss it one week then you can certainly get caught up in the next week or even just at the PPV. That's one thing the MNWs always brought to us was cliffhangers and unexpected surprises. "What will happen next?!" Now I'm not asking to bring back pillow fights and beer trucks but I think WWE has certainly been resting on their laurels to the point where people just got bored and stopped watching. It's not Monday Night Football, or people watching on DVR imo. It's just the fact that WWE isn't cool, and it might not be ever again. Pro wrestling has a cult like fandom now. It's a tighter knit group of people who support the product. Luckily, quite a number of those people spread their interest across the board to stuff like ROH, or LU, or TNA, or their local VFW show, and they support WWE too. So that type of mentality is good for the industry as a whole. Even that though is a silver lining to where WWE used to be 10 years ago. Yeah. The market has changed drastically, but people are still watching television. A lot of it. They're just doing it in different ways. WWE does fantastic numbers on YouTube, but that isn't a successful marker for business. It means, primarily, that people are willing to watch abbreviated versions of their product just so they can stay up to date. It says that the whole product isn't worth viewer's time, so they flock to YouTube clips instead. That's a problem. If the product were more captivating, you'd have more people watching the show itself and less people just taking in 5-10 minutes of clips a week to satiate their fandom. Part of that is the culture we've grown into, but the entirety of the decline can't be pinned on that. Wrestling's popularity during the Attitude Era was sort of a lightning in a bottle thing. There was a ground swell of, no pun in intended, attitude among kids, teens, and young adults, and pro wrestling just happened to tap directly into that well at the right time, causing an explosion of popularity. I don't know that there's anything the wrestling business as a whole could do to cause another type of boom. I think WWE knows that, and as a result, they've become lackadaisical in their approach, which is the worst thing they can do for the business. It's also worth noting, since the OP made mention of a few of WWE's biggest stars. In the last year or so, WWE has gone so brand-centric that they've basically created a bubble where even their biggest stars don't pop ratings or bring about any significant changes to product interest. John Cena is no longer a ratings grab. The Undertaker appears so rarely that it hardly matters. Hell, Brock Lesnar, the singular wave in an otherwise calm and level pool has been effectively reduced to just another WWE guy. Ratings don't spike when Brock appears, regardless of how far ahead they announce it. Somewhere after his WWE title run, he stopped being treated like a commodity and started being treated like everyone else - an expendable asset under the omnipotent thumb of the mighty Vince McMahon. WWE tries to make people believe that their declining ratings don't matter. Their corporate schills harp on that point to fans who disagree on Twitter. It just makes them look silly. Nearly a third of WWE's revenue comes directly from NBCUniversal. If that went away tomorrow, they'd be in serious financial trouble. The fact of the matter is, WWE promised NBCUniversal something very specific when they signed their (immensely) lucrative deal a couple of years ago, and, thus far, they're failing to deliver upon it. When they come up for renewal, they'll have lost significant bargaining power and will likely be staring at a much less generous offer. Then the question becomes, what do they do to make up for all the lost profit? Raise the price of the Network. Raise ticket prices. Run more shows. Work their talent harder. It's a scary thought. |
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Post by punksnotdead on Jul 6, 2016 11:37:08 GMT -5
To your last point, I actually think we're seeing that now. They're adding a second brand specific PPV to several months out of the year, which will certainly do better money than show even though it's more expensive to produce. I also think they're bringing back the brand split for the same reason. If they can't do 5-6 million every Monday night, maybe they can do 3-4 million every Monday and Tuesday.
I already think ticket prices are at too high of a premium for the product they're selling. The Network is kind of in a fragile place as well where I think if they were to mess with the price in any significant way that people would just drop off. I think what we see happen is a number of those veteran contracts go away. Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry, even Brock. If they have a CFO over there actually figuring out ROI on talent then I think a lot of those guys would be gone. Cena seems like he's got his foot halfway out the door now too. It's just like pro sports. You want young controllable talent. Less A-Rod contracts and more Kris Bryant contracts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2016 11:41:06 GMT -5
The only legitimate chance they had to achieve ratings like that was during the time that TNA could have turned into a viable number two. Poor decision making ruined that.
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Post by J12 on Jul 6, 2016 11:47:57 GMT -5
To your last point, I actually think we're seeing that now. They're adding a second brand specific PPV to several months out of the year, which will certainly do better money than show even though it's more expensive to produce. I also think they're bringing back the brand split for the same reason. If they can't do 5-6 million every Monday night, maybe they can do 3-4 million every Monday and Tuesday. I already think ticket prices are at too high of a premium for the product they're selling. The Network is kind of in a fragile place as well where I think if they were to mess with the price in any significant way that people would just drop off. I think what we see happen is a number of those veteran contracts go away. Big Show, Kane, Mark Henry, even Brock. If they have a CFO over there actually figuring out ROI on talent then I think a lot of those guys would be gone. Cena seems like he's got his foot halfway out the door now too. It's just like pro sports. You want young controllable talent. Less A-Rod contracts and more Kris Bryant contracts. To your point regarding contracts; the fewer veterans they have in there, the less they have to worry about those guys polluting the locker room with the way business "used to be." The only guy on the roster with any sort of leverage, financially, is John Cena. He's the one guy, who, while not making an impact on ratings, is still a huge contributing factor in profits. Once he's gone, WWE will have a true stranglehold on the entire crew in the sense that, no one person is bigger than the brand. Everyone is expendable. We've already seen it with Brock Lesnar. And man, what a defeatist attitude to take. If they are already prepping for a lower rights contract by taking these steps to raise profits elsewhere, that is, in a way, admitting that they don't think they can bring their product back up to a respectable standard. In reality, there's a plethora of things they can do that don't even cost money. It's just sad. |
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Post by The Natural Eddy Valintino on Jul 6, 2016 14:01:28 GMT -5
Nah, highest i see them going is a 4, and that'll be a rare rating for them today. I do see them getting 3s again if they fix they book wrestlers
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Post by marino13 on Jul 6, 2016 14:01:40 GMT -5
With the way TV is nowadays, with everyone using a stream or a DVR, I think the rating system is flawed. It'll never reach the height it once once because there are so many more options than there was back in the late 90's. It seems like they account for a lot of that now though. I just read an article about the GoTs ratings not that long ago and they mention accounting for DVR, replay, HBO Go, and all of that to arrive at the accumulated rating of 23 million viewers a week or whatever. So you can't sell this idea that shows like Walking Dead and Game of Thrones are reaching ratings highs with all of the multiple formats for viewing but then try and sell the idea that WWE isn't getting high ratings because of that stuff. Not to mention, stuff like Game of Thrones and Walking Dead are going to get far more torrent downloads than something like Raw. I just think the interest in pro wrestling has been on a steady decline for going on 10 to 12 years now. WrestleMania has become its own spectacle that people will go checkout but tuning in from week-to-week is no longer a priority, nor is it must see tv. The show is incredibly formulaic and if you miss it one week then you can certainly get caught up in the next week or even just at the PPV. That's one thing the MNWs always brought to us was cliffhangers and unexpected surprises. "What will happen next?!" Now I'm not asking to bring back pillow fights and beer trucks but I think WWE has certainly been resting on their laurels to the point where people just got bored and stopped watching. It's not Monday Night Football, or people watching on DVR imo. It's just the fact that WWE isn't cool, and it might not be ever again. Pro wrestling has a cult like fandom now. It's a tighter knit group of people who support the product. Luckily, quite a number of those people spread their interest across the board to stuff like ROH, or LU, or TNA, or their local VFW show, and they support WWE too. So that type of mentality is good for the industry as a whole. Even that though is a silver lining to where WWE used to be 10 years ago. Well to be fair, I talk out my ass a lot. I'm just surprised you guys still read what I write.  |
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Post by J-MANN on Jul 7, 2016 9:02:18 GMT -5
After reading all these comments it doesn't seem like the future is going to be good at all, lol. Very scary..
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Post by J12 on Jul 7, 2016 9:50:01 GMT -5
To the general conversation regarding ratings, Raw drew a 1.87 this week. Even with the holiday episode qualifier, it was the lowest rated episode in over 20 years, and one of the lowest of all time. A 15.4% decline from last week.
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jul 7, 2016 10:30:12 GMT -5
RAW is great. I've been having trouble sleeping at night recently, but not on Monday Nights! I just put on RAW, and before I know it, it's Tuesday morning! Puts me right to sleep.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 10:52:02 GMT -5
It would be better if all of wwe was the network. RAW and SD and NXT and now CWC all live
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Post by J12 on Jul 7, 2016 10:59:15 GMT -5
It would be better if all of wwe was the network. RAW and SD and NXT and now CWC all live They wouldn't survive. Their TV rights deal is absolutely crucial to their business model. They would need to raise the cost of the network so high that they'd price themselves out of most of their subscribers. |
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