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Post by MADNESS_NH_97 on Jul 20, 2016 9:54:27 GMT -5
Alexa Bliss & Blake and Murphy splitted about 1½ months ago. So it makes sense to draft her on her own. I know but my point was that AB stands alone without them and Carmella doesn't. Sure... But this kinda has its pros and cons... Even thought they both(Enzo & Cass and Carmella) could benefit from staying together. Both the women's & tag division could benefit from them beeing a part not having tons of tag matches with Carmella being at ringside all the time instead of having matches and with teams like The Usos & Naomi or Cesaro, Kidd & Natalya not being around anymore there isn't much room for intergender feuds like Enzo, Cass & Carmella vs. Blake, Murphy & Alexa Bliss. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 9:54:42 GMT -5
Going with the "just be patient" response huh? Never heard that one before... The draft itself was a terrible show. The post show from 10-11pm was even more painful. Are there some intriguing scenarios? Yes, mostly on Smackdown. That doesn't change the fact that the draft felt like it was sorted out 10 minutes before it happened. Which, judging by everything we've heard about WWE and the creative process, is probably how it went down. Yep. There's a difference between being patient and being naive. It would be naive to say WWE had Smackdown's best interest in mind last night. They had Stephanie McMahon and Raw in mind, the way they always have and always will. It's hard to be patient when we have years and years and dozens upon dozens of examples of WWE failing to write competent shows with or without the split. It would've been one thing if the draft came off positively, but it didn't. It played out, like punksnotdead said, like they wrote it ten minutes before they went to air and started to panic the moment Smackdown got anything remotely resembling an edge. The balance of power was shifted before they even began. It was a piss poor show that proved a lot of people on this board, and elsewhere, right. If people need any clarification regarding Smackdown's firmly rooted status as the B-Show, look no further than House Show line ups. John Cena doesn't work house shows anymore, save the special events like MSG. Randy Orton has had a limited house show schedule for years, and that's unlikely to change. You have Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles up against Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Cesaro, Rusev, and all the attraction the women's division has to offer. Years and years and your still here so it can't of been as bad as you think. And to say they only care about Stephanie and raw haha because they don't want both shows to be successful to make more money??? Haha John Cena is on Smackdown FFS yeah He doesn't work house shows, so what, Ambrose and AJ are as popular as Rollins and reigns. And some of the Smackdown undercard guys could become as popular as the raw ones now they've got more of an opportunity. That's where patience comes in, how do you expect things to change and grow and improve, when your killing it before its even started If in 6 months raw is killing Smackdown which is losing ratings and house show numbers and just relying on Cena as there champion I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I was completely wrong and WWE doesn't care about Smackdown But I'm not gonna predict the future based on the past, change and improvement doesn't happen when the time before it was good does it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 9:58:23 GMT -5
I know but my point was that AB stands alone without them and Carmella doesn't. Sure... But this kinda has its pros and cons... Even thought they both(Enzo & Cass and Carmella) could benefit from staying together. Both the women's & tag division could benefit from them beeing a part not having tons of tag matches with Carmella being at ringside all the time instead of having matches and with teams like The Usos & Naomi or Cesaro, Kidd & Natalya not being around anymore there isn't much room for intergender feuds like Enzo, Cass & Carmella vs. Blake, Murphy & Alexa Bliss. Or maybe they see carmella as a top women on Smackdown where as on raw there's Sasha and Charlotte in her way, maybe she's gonna be a Heel ? you don't know what there gonna do so why say it's wrong before anythings happened |
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Post by T R W on Jul 20, 2016 10:03:28 GMT -5
NO
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Post by punksnotdead on Jul 20, 2016 10:10:15 GMT -5
I know but my point was that AB stands alone without them and Carmella doesn't. Sure... But this kinda has its pros and cons... Even thought they both(Enzo & Cass and Carmella) could benefit from staying together. Both the women's & tag division could benefit from them beeing a part not having tons of tag matches with Carmella being at ringside all the time instead of having matches and with teams like The Usos & Naomi or Cesaro, Kidd & Natalya not being around anymore there isn't much room for intergender feuds like Enzo, Cass & Carmella vs. Blake, Murphy & Alexa Bliss. There is nothing stopping Carmella from competing for the Women's Title on Raw even though she comes out with Enzo and Cass. On most nights, it makes it easier to book her on the shows. I think you get the absolute most out of Carmella by putting her with Enzo and Cass. I think she can be a great manager for them, and can work in the women's division simultaneously. Let's be realistic here too. Carmella is going to be a long ways off from Women's Title contention for the foreseeable future. Being with Enzo and Cass, and having that popularity, puts her much closer in the eyes of the fans. This is my point though. The brand split has diluted the talent pool. It'll be a good opportunity for a few, but will likely hurt the big picture for most. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 10:15:57 GMT -5
Everyone wanted change
We got change
But because the change doesn't happen immediately it sucks
And the future is gonna be the same as the recent past?!
even tho the recent past is why we got the change ?!
Lack of positivity and patience
But if you are positive and have patience then your naive or wrong or a sheep
Even tho I've sat and watched the exact same WWE as them and have as much insight into the business as them haha
And even tho it's clearly a new start, everything and everyone will be the same as before... even tho you've been sat in 0 WWE creative meetings
This is why the fanbase sucks and ruins wrestling
But whatever hahahaha No one can change my mind and I don't care about changing anyone else's... Aslong as I'm happy and enjoying WWE and is still on my TV that's all what matters, I wouldn't care if the rating was 1 and that was me on my own hahaha I can't wait for battleground raw and Smackdown! if you can't... Awww poor you
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Post by J12 on Jul 20, 2016 10:17:18 GMT -5
Yep. There's a difference between being patient and being naive. It would be naive to say WWE had Smackdown's best interest in mind last night. They had Stephanie McMahon and Raw in mind, the way they always have and always will. It's hard to be patient when we have years and years and dozens upon dozens of examples of WWE failing to write competent shows with or without the split. It would've been one thing if the draft came off positively, but it didn't. It played out, like punksnotdead said, like they wrote it ten minutes before they went to air and started to panic the moment Smackdown got anything remotely resembling an edge. The balance of power was shifted before they even began. It was a piss poor show that proved a lot of people on this board, and elsewhere, right. If people need any clarification regarding Smackdown's firmly rooted status as the B-Show, look no further than House Show line ups. John Cena doesn't work house shows anymore, save the special events like MSG. Randy Orton has had a limited house show schedule for years, and that's unlikely to change. You have Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles up against Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Cesaro, Rusev, and all the attraction the women's division has to offer. Years and years and your still here so it can't of been as bad as you think. And to say they only care about Stephanie and raw haha because they don't want both shows to be successful to make more money??? Haha John Cena is on Smackdown FFS yeah He doesn't work house shows, so what, Ambrose and AJ are as popular as Rollins and reigns. And some of the Smackdown undercard guys could become as popular as the raw ones now they've got more of an opportunity. That's where patience comes in, how do you expect things to change and grow and improve, when your killing it before its even started If in 6 months raw is killing Smackdown which is losing ratings and house show numbers and just relying on Cena as there champion I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I was completely wrong and WWE doesn't care about Smackdown But I'm not gonna predict the future based on the past, change and improvement doesn't happen when the time before it was good does it. Years and years of incompetent booking doesn't mean that everything they've done in that time period has been awful. It doesn't discredit the incredible work done from talent like John Cena, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and all the guys still busting their ass week in and week out. It simply means that Vince McMahon's creative prowess has been on a sharp decline for a decade. Ask any analyst covering the product. Ask any analyst covering the product. Listen to any ex-talent or writer who dedicated years to the profession, they're all pretty much saying the same thing - Vince McMahon is out of touch and not creatively competent to write compelling television anymore. That doesn't take away from the great people who has working for him who are trying their very best to make a bad product watchable. I, and others like me, stick around for those people. They did this draft out of desperation because ratings were in the toilet for Raw and this was the easiest way they could think of to "shake things up." Of course they want the shows to be more successful, they're hoping that by giving Smackdown an exclusive roster, it will become more successful. They're not concerned with who is on the show, simply that some guys will only be on that show, and that it's live. Honestly, the live aspect is more likely the bring up Smackdown ratings than this roster they've put together. That's one positive coming out of this whole ordeal. The John Cena argument is a fascinating one to me. Time and time again, we've seen statistics that show he's no longer popping ratings. People aren't tuning in solely for John Cena. They're tuning into the brand, in drastically smaller numbers than ever before. Not to mention, John Cena has one foot out the door. There's a reason he wasn't drafted first - it's because Vince McMahon knows his passion is waning and it's unlikely he'll be able to turn to him in a year or two for anything more than an occasional appearance. It's the Roman Reigns show now. Cena is old news. Look at the depth. The writing is already on the wall. Would I like to believe guys like Dolph Ziggler are going to have some monumental career resurgence? Sure. Has WWE given me absolutely any reason to have faith they're capable of making that happen? No. Not at all. The same goes for guys like Del Rio, who has become the most expensive enhancement talent in wrestling history. The point about house shows is valid because it does matter that Cena doesn't work house shows. It does matter that Randy Orton works limited dates. It does matter that only Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles are there in the trenches. You can have Ambrose and Styles wrestle each other until they're blue in the face. Where are the rest of the attractions? How many times is Bray Wyatt going to squash Dolph Ziggler? Tell me that, at any point, with these rosters, you can realistically see Smackdown headlining a Pay-Per-View over Raw? |
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Post by punksnotdead on Jul 20, 2016 10:33:44 GMT -5
Everyone wanted change We got change But because the change doesn't happen immediately it sucks And the future is gonna be the same as the recent past?! even tho the recent past is why we got the change ?! Lack of positivity and patience But if you are positive and have patience then your naive or wrong or a sheep Even tho I've sat and watched the exact same WWE as them and have as much insight into the business as them haha And even tho it's clearly a new start, everything and everyone will be the same as before... even tho you've been sat in 0 WWE creative meetings This is why the fanbase sucks and ruins wrestling But whatever hahahaha No one can change my mind and I don't care about changing anyone else's... Aslong as I'm happy and enjoying WWE and is still on my TV that's all what matters, I wouldn't care if the rating was 1 and that was me on my own hahaha I can't wait for battleground raw and Smackdown! if you can't... Awww poor you The brand split is a tool that has already failed. We've actually already seen it run through its product lifecycle and then die. Now it's back. The change people want is creative change. Storytelling change. This isn't, really, what anyone was talking about. I didn't want the brand split back at all. WWE can't manage to produce one good 3 hour show. How are they going to produce two great shows by dividing their stars in half? I think a big part of being excited right now is that possibility is always great in your mind. Raiders fans were excited when they drafted JeMarcus Russell. Geno Smith was taking the Jets to the Super Bowl. The Bengals were on the map in 1999 with Akili Smith. I think it's great that people will get better opportunity with two brands. However, Jack Swagger isn't a top star. He's not even a midcard star anymore. Ziggler was never able to break the upper midcard. Christian was never taken seriously outside of his tiny World Title bubble on Smackdown that lasted 6 days. The only star the brand split has ever created is CM Punk. But even then, if Punk isn't trying to quit WWE, and doesn't cut that promo, he never breaks through either. Daniel Bryan wasn't even a star within the brand split, just an internet darling. WWE is a classes system. It goes the top talent on Raw, the top 2-3 guys on Smackdown that sell tickets, and then everyone else that Vince really just doesn't care about. The brand split isn't going to change that. Honestly, it probably makes it worse since more guys will be out of sight, out of mind. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jul 20, 2016 10:50:01 GMT -5
Splitting up the Club was completely dumb and no disrespect to Gallows and Anderson but I can't see them lasting long by themselves.
The tag division is already full and they've lost so many matches aswell so it's not as if they're a dominant force.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 10:52:15 GMT -5
Years and years and your still here so it can't of been as bad as you think. And to say they only care about Stephanie and raw haha because they don't want both shows to be successful to make more money??? Haha John Cena is on Smackdown FFS yeah He doesn't work house shows, so what, Ambrose and AJ are as popular as Rollins and reigns. And some of the Smackdown undercard guys could become as popular as the raw ones now they've got more of an opportunity. That's where patience comes in, how do you expect things to change and grow and improve, when your killing it before its even started If in 6 months raw is killing Smackdown which is losing ratings and house show numbers and just relying on Cena as there champion I'll be the first to hold my hands up and say I was completely wrong and WWE doesn't care about Smackdown But I'm not gonna predict the future based on the past, change and improvement doesn't happen when the time before it was good does it. Years and years of incompetent booking doesn't mean that everything they've done in that time period has been awful. It doesn't discredit the incredible work done from talent like John Cena, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and all the guys still busting their ass week in and week out. It simply means that Vince McMahon's creative prowess has been on a sharp decline for a decade. Ask any analyst covering the product. Ask any analyst covering the product. Listen to any ex-talent or writer who dedicated years to the profession, they're all pretty much saying the same thing - Vince McMahon is out of touch and not creatively competent to write compelling television anymore. That doesn't take away from the great people who has working for him who are trying their very best to make a bad product watchable. I, and others like me, stick around for those people. They did this draft out of desperation because ratings were in the toilet for Raw and this was the easiest way they could think of to "shake things up." Of course they want the shows to be more successful, they're hoping that by giving Smackdown an exclusive roster, it will become more successful. They're not concerned with who is on the show, simply that some guys will only be on that show, and that it's live. Honestly, the live aspect is more likely the bring up Smackdown ratings than this roster they've put together. That's one positive coming out of this whole ordeal. The John Cena argument is a fascinating one to me. Time and time again, we've seen statistics that show he's no longer popping ratings. People aren't tuning in solely for John Cena. They're tuning into the brand, in drastically smaller numbers than ever before. Not to mention, John Cena has one foot out the door. There's a reason he wasn't drafted first - it's because Vince McMahon knows his passion is waning and it's unlikely he'll be able to turn to him in a year or two for anything more than an occasional appearance. It's the Roman Reigns show now. Cena is old news. Look at the depth. The writing is already on the wall. Would I like to believe guys like Dolph Ziggler are going to have some monumental career resurgence? Sure. Has WWE given me absolutely any reason to have faith they're capable of making that happen? No. Not at all. The same goes for guys like Del Rio, who has become the most expensive enhancement talent in wrestling history. The point about house shows is valid because it does matter that Cena doesn't work house shows. It does matter that Randy Orton works limited dates. It does matter that only Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles are there in the trenches. You can have Ambrose and Styles wrestle each other until they're blue in the face. Where are the rest of the attractions? How many times is Bray Wyatt going to squash Dolph Ziggler? Tell me that, at any point, with these rosters, you can realistically see Smackdown headlining a Pay-Per-View over Raw? Well I don't care what analysts think, I can make my own opinion, I'm not a sheep and after 20 years of never missing a show I think I have as much credibility as them to be an analyst... Ex talent and writers, fair enough but they still won't influence me, no it's not as exciting as the attitude era but I still enjoy it, and that won't change based on what others say. It just amazes me how you know so much about there plans for Smackdown and there talent, and that they don't care whose on it haha you don't know the creative plans that are coming, you don't know the long term Plans... your basing it on what's gone before... the Midcard CAN improve on Smackdown, that's the point about patience, there's talented guys there, who will obviously get more chance to shine now. So yeah I can see them headlining a PPV over raw, quite easily. The same way I could see NXT headline a PPV over RAW if they shared a PPV, now NXT has had time to develop its brand and stars. i love guys like you who read stuff on the Internet and think your 'in' the business haha you have no idea what the plans are and you have no idea what creative will do and what there be able to do next, you base it on what's happened before. And also did you get a photo with John Cena when you met him and he told you he'd lost passion and has one foot out the door? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 11:03:52 GMT -5
Everyone wanted change We got change But because the change doesn't happen immediately it sucks And the future is gonna be the same as the recent past?! even tho the recent past is why we got the change ?! Lack of positivity and patience But if you are positive and have patience then your naive or wrong or a sheep Even tho I've sat and watched the exact same WWE as them and have as much insight into the business as them haha And even tho it's clearly a new start, everything and everyone will be the same as before... even tho you've been sat in 0 WWE creative meetings This is why the fanbase sucks and ruins wrestling But whatever hahahaha No one can change my mind and I don't care about changing anyone else's... Aslong as I'm happy and enjoying WWE and is still on my TV that's all what matters, I wouldn't care if the rating was 1 and that was me on my own hahaha I can't wait for battleground raw and Smackdown! if you can't... Awww poor you The brand split is a tool that has already failed. We've actually already seen it run through its product lifecycle and then die. Now it's back. The change people want is creative change. Storytelling change. This isn't, really, what anyone was talking about. I didn't want the brand split back at all. WWE can't manage to produce one good 3 hour show. How are they going to produce two great shows by dividing their stars in half? I think a big part of being excited right now is that possibility is always great in your mind. Raiders fans were excited when they drafted JeMarcus Russell. Geno Smith was taking the Jets to the Super Bowl. The Bengals were on the map in 1999 with Akili Smith. I think it's great that people will get better opportunity with two brands. However, Jack Swagger isn't a top star. He's not even a midcard star anymore. Ziggler was never able to break the upper midcard. Christian was never taken seriously outside of his tiny World Title bubble on Smackdown that lasted 6 days. The only star the brand split has ever created is CM Punk. But even then, if Punk isn't trying to quit WWE, and doesn't cut that promo, he never breaks through either. Daniel Bryan wasn't even a star within the brand split, just an internet darling. WWE is a classes system. It goes the top talent on Raw, the top 2-3 guys on Smackdown that sell tickets, and then everyone else that Vince really just doesn't care about. The brand split isn't going to change that. Honestly, it probably makes it worse since more guys will be out of sight, out of mind. I don't live in the past I live in the future and I'm sure they know they got it wrong last time (there not as stupid as people make out) and I'm just hopefull and excited to see if they get it right this time round, cos if they do it could be amazing. But as it hasn't even started yet, I'm not gonna judge it based on what happened last time I'm not 'in' the WWE bubble I have no idea what there plans are here, I don't know what vince has said to the creative teams, I don't know anything, but I've liked what I've seen and heard so far about 'competition' and am excited to see it play out, past doesn't bother me, only what happens next. It needed change we've been given it, yeah it's a change that's been done before, but that's no problem to me, it's different than what we've had the last few years and if it works, like I said could be amazing and could also help grow NXT. It's a long Term thing imo but I'm not impatient so that's no problem to me. I'm just taking one show at a time and making my own opinion on it. Really not bothered what anyone else thinks that's there problem to deal with haha |
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Post by K5 on Jul 20, 2016 11:09:14 GMT -5
patience? they've been dropping the ball now for over 10 years. at this point i have 0 expectations on the wwe product on a creative level. i watch for the matches now.
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Post by J12 on Jul 20, 2016 11:09:28 GMT -5
Years and years of incompetent booking doesn't mean that everything they've done in that time period has been awful. It doesn't discredit the incredible work done from talent like John Cena, CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and all the guys still busting their ass week in and week out. It simply means that Vince McMahon's creative prowess has been on a sharp decline for a decade. Ask any analyst covering the product. Ask any analyst covering the product. Listen to any ex-talent or writer who dedicated years to the profession, they're all pretty much saying the same thing - Vince McMahon is out of touch and not creatively competent to write compelling television anymore. That doesn't take away from the great people who has working for him who are trying their very best to make a bad product watchable. I, and others like me, stick around for those people. They did this draft out of desperation because ratings were in the toilet for Raw and this was the easiest way they could think of to "shake things up." Of course they want the shows to be more successful, they're hoping that by giving Smackdown an exclusive roster, it will become more successful. They're not concerned with who is on the show, simply that some guys will only be on that show, and that it's live. Honestly, the live aspect is more likely the bring up Smackdown ratings than this roster they've put together. That's one positive coming out of this whole ordeal. The John Cena argument is a fascinating one to me. Time and time again, we've seen statistics that show he's no longer popping ratings. People aren't tuning in solely for John Cena. They're tuning into the brand, in drastically smaller numbers than ever before. Not to mention, John Cena has one foot out the door. There's a reason he wasn't drafted first - it's because Vince McMahon knows his passion is waning and it's unlikely he'll be able to turn to him in a year or two for anything more than an occasional appearance. It's the Roman Reigns show now. Cena is old news. Look at the depth. The writing is already on the wall. Would I like to believe guys like Dolph Ziggler are going to have some monumental career resurgence? Sure. Has WWE given me absolutely any reason to have faith they're capable of making that happen? No. Not at all. The same goes for guys like Del Rio, who has become the most expensive enhancement talent in wrestling history. The point about house shows is valid because it does matter that Cena doesn't work house shows. It does matter that Randy Orton works limited dates. It does matter that only Dean Ambrose and AJ Styles are there in the trenches. You can have Ambrose and Styles wrestle each other until they're blue in the face. Where are the rest of the attractions? How many times is Bray Wyatt going to squash Dolph Ziggler? Tell me that, at any point, with these rosters, you can realistically see Smackdown headlining a Pay-Per-View over Raw? Well I don't care what analysts think, I can make my own opinion, I'm not a sheep and after 20 years of never missing a show I think I have as much credibility as them to be an analyst... Ex talent and writers, fair enough but they still won't influence me, no it's not as exciting as the attitude era but I still enjoy it, and that won't change based on what others say. It just amazes me how you know so much about there plans for Smackdown and there talent, and that they don't care whose on it haha you don't know the creative plans that are coming, you don't know the long term Plans... your basing it on what's gone before.:.. the Midcard CAN improve on Smackdown, that's the point about patience, there's talented guys there, who will obviously get more chance to shine now. So yeah I can see them headlining a PPV over raw, quite easily. The same way I could see NXT headline a PPV over RAW if they shared a PPV, now NXT has had time to develop its brand and stars. i love guys like you who read stuff on the Internet and think your 'in' the business haha you have no idea what the plans are and you have no idea what creative will do and what there be able to do next, you base it on what's happened before. And also did you get a photo with John Cena when you met him and he told you he'd lost passion and has one foot out the door? It doesn't take an insider or an analyst to see that John Cena has dozens of opportunities knocking on his door. He's a Today Show host, the ESPY's host, the Kid's Teen Choice Host, a movie star, and an ad spokesman. He's transcended the business. He's coming off of a serious injury with a brand new, part-time schedule. Deductive reasoning. As for the remainder, it's an educated guess. That's what we do in life. History tends to repeat itself, and they're off to a miserable start. Show me an indication that Vince McMahon has changed the way he does business and I'll take back everything I've said. I form my opinions based on what I observe with my eyes and ears on weekly WWE television and supplement that with what I've read and heard from people in the business whose experience I value and respect. Guys like Steve Austin, the greatest of all time and a reasonable, sensible individual with one of the most brilliant minds for pro wrestling ever. Guys like Kevin Eck, who wrote for WWE during one of the most tumultuous times in recent memory, who was in the trenches as recently as two years ago, who has insight as to how Vince McMahon thinks, acts, and what he cares about and what he doesn't care about. Guys like Jim Ross. Analysts like Wade Keller, who always presents both sides of the argument and encourages a neutral perspective. That doesn't make my opinion any more or less valid than yours, but it certainly doesn't disqualify me from making educated assumptions. We're very far apart on this topic, that's fine. You're coming from a position of innocent until proven guilty. I'm coming from a place where WWE has already been proven guilty, and now they're working backwards to exonerate themselves. Only time will tell who is right. |
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Post by marino13 on Jul 20, 2016 11:20:40 GMT -5
I can't say I agreed with all their decisions, but I'm intrigued of things to come. And I'm very excited about this roster split. It'll give us two unique shows, and that will make everything feel more fresh.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 11:39:05 GMT -5
Well I don't care what analysts think, I can make my own opinion, I'm not a sheep and after 20 years of never missing a show I think I have as much credibility as them to be an analyst... Ex talent and writers, fair enough but they still won't influence me, no it's not as exciting as the attitude era but I still enjoy it, and that won't change based on what others say. It just amazes me how you know so much about there plans for Smackdown and there talent, and that they don't care whose on it haha you don't know the creative plans that are coming, you don't know the long term Plans... your basing it on what's gone before.:.. the Midcard CAN improve on Smackdown, that's the point about patience, there's talented guys there, who will obviously get more chance to shine now. So yeah I can see them headlining a PPV over raw, quite easily. The same way I could see NXT headline a PPV over RAW if they shared a PPV, now NXT has had time to develop its brand and stars. i love guys like you who read stuff on the Internet and think your 'in' the business haha you have no idea what the plans are and you have no idea what creative will do and what there be able to do next, you base it on what's happened before. And also did you get a photo with John Cena when you met him and he told you he'd lost passion and has one foot out the door? It doesn't take an insider or an analyst to see that John Cena has dozens of opportunities knocking on his door. He's a Today Show host, the ESPY's host, the Kid's Teen Choice Host, a movie star, and an ad spokesman. He's transcended the business. He's coming off of a serious injury with a brand new, part-time schedule. Deductive reasoning. As for the remainder, it's an educated guess. That's what we do in life. History tends to repeat itself, and they're off to a miserable start. Show me an indication that Vince McMahon has changed the way he does business and I'll take back everything I've said. I form my opinions based on what I observe with my eyes and ears on weekly WWE television and supplement that with what I've read and heard from people in the business whose experience I value and respect. Guys like Steve Austin, the greatest of all time and a reasonable, sensible individual with one of the most brilliant minds for pro wrestling ever. Guys like Kevin Eck, who wrote for WWE during one of the most tumultuous times in recent memory, who was in the trenches as recently as two years ago, who has insight as to how Vince McMahon thinks, acts, and what he cares about and what he doesn't care about. Guys like Jim Ross. Analysts like Wade Keller, who always presents both sides of the argument and encourages a neutral perspective. That doesn't make my opinion any more or less valid than yours, but it certainly doesn't disqualify me from making educated assumptions. We're very far apart on this topic, that's fine. You're coming from a position of innocent until proven guilty. I'm coming from a place where WWE has already been proven guilty, and now they're working backwards to exonerate themselves. Only time will tell who is right. I respect you after that post. I guess I'm just hopeful and hanging on to little things I've heard them say like 'competition' etc and hoping that will lead to something, I think the superstars doing shoot interviews last night made it feel like this could be different now. But you won't change my Opinion and I won't change yours so waste of time really haha I just don't understand being negative instead of being positive and getting behind it, purely based on what's gonna before even tho that's what's led to the change, if Vince didn't wanna change why would he even bother doing a draft? surely if it fails it's an even bigger money loser for him, In regards to stone cold, JR etc it's different to them than us fans as they've been in it, but do we need to be that far in really? I don't think so, I think it clouds are judgement on things hearing what they think... JR seems to be thinking like me from what I'm heard hes very positive and hopeful about it. Stone cold however, typical my era was better type, goes on about selling and protecting moves, yet the attitude era was known for starting underselling and doing moves like the DDT as a transition move, yet he hates on it now for not protecting the DDT or storytelling in the ring? Attitude era main events brawled in the crowd and outside the ring then used run ins and ref bumps haha which i loved but what's the story there? |
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Post by J12 on Jul 20, 2016 11:52:43 GMT -5
It doesn't take an insider or an analyst to see that John Cena has dozens of opportunities knocking on his door. He's a Today Show host, the ESPY's host, the Kid's Teen Choice Host, a movie star, and an ad spokesman. He's transcended the business. He's coming off of a serious injury with a brand new, part-time schedule. Deductive reasoning. As for the remainder, it's an educated guess. That's what we do in life. History tends to repeat itself, and they're off to a miserable start. Show me an indication that Vince McMahon has changed the way he does business and I'll take back everything I've said. I form my opinions based on what I observe with my eyes and ears on weekly WWE television and supplement that with what I've read and heard from people in the business whose experience I value and respect. Guys like Steve Austin, the greatest of all time and a reasonable, sensible individual with one of the most brilliant minds for pro wrestling ever. Guys like Kevin Eck, who wrote for WWE during one of the most tumultuous times in recent memory, who was in the trenches as recently as two years ago, who has insight as to how Vince McMahon thinks, acts, and what he cares about and what he doesn't care about. Guys like Jim Ross. Analysts like Wade Keller, who always presents both sides of the argument and encourages a neutral perspective. That doesn't make my opinion any more or less valid than yours, but it certainly doesn't disqualify me from making educated assumptions. We're very far apart on this topic, that's fine. You're coming from a position of innocent until proven guilty. I'm coming from a place where WWE has already been proven guilty, and now they're working backwards to exonerate themselves. Only time will tell who is right. I respect you after that post. I guess I'm just hopeful and hanging on to little things I've heard them say like 'competition' etc and hoping that will lead to something, I think the superstars doing shoot interviews last night made it feel like this could be different now. But you won't change my Opinion and I won't change yours so waste of time really haha I just don't understand being negative instead of being positive and getting behind it, purely based on what's gonna before even tho that's what's led to the change, if Vince didn't wanna change why would he even bother doing a draft? surely if it fails it's an even bigger money loser for him, In regards to stone cold, JR etc it's different to them than us fans as they've been in it, but do we need to be that far in really? I don't think so, I think it clouds are judgement on things hearing what they think... JR seems to be thinking like me from what I'm heard hes very positive and hopeful about it. Stone cold however, typical my era was better type, goes on about selling and protecting moves, yet the attitude era was known for starting underselling and doing moves like the DDT as a transition move, yet he hates on it now for not protecting the DDT or storytelling in the ring? Attitude era main events brawled in the crowd and outside the ring then used run ins and ref bumps haha which i loved but what's the story there? You hit on the one huge positive I took away from last night. Those promos were so very clearly not scripted, and that was awesome. I assume it was simply because they didn't have time to write for all of these guys, but maybe they liked what they saw and will be a little bit more loose with it going forward. I don't care that Kalisto fell flat on his face. That stuff is going to happen. I'd rather hear a bad backstage interview than a scripted, robotic one. If that change sticks, I will be immensely pleased. As for Austin, I think he recognizes that his generation wasn't innocent. A lot of us are guilty of looking at the Attitude Era with rose-colored glasses. I consider that they heyday for story-telling up and down the card (as in, most people usually had an angle that mattered), but outside of that, it hasn't aged very well. I think Austin's primary point is that if you're going to remove all of the crash TV elements, you need to have a heavier focus on ring psychology. I tend to agree with that philosophy. There were enough distractions during the Attitude Era to get away with going a little lighter in that department, where as now,there's a heavier focus on the in-ring action without the bells and whistles, so it requires guys to be a little bit more technically sound, or risk having their matches feel hollow. |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Jul 20, 2016 11:54:18 GMT -5
I love the rosters.
What I don't love is knowing that Raw is going to have the better matches every week.
The name quality is split well.
The match quality will not even be close.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 18, 2024 17:26:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 12:13:40 GMT -5
I respect you after that post. I guess I'm just hopeful and hanging on to little things I've heard them say like 'competition' etc and hoping that will lead to something, I think the superstars doing shoot interviews last night made it feel like this could be different now. But you won't change my Opinion and I won't change yours so waste of time really haha I just don't understand being negative instead of being positive and getting behind it, purely based on what's gonna before even tho that's what's led to the change, if Vince didn't wanna change why would he even bother doing a draft? surely if it fails it's an even bigger money loser for him, In regards to stone cold, JR etc it's different to them than us fans as they've been in it, but do we need to be that far in really? I don't think so, I think it clouds are judgement on things hearing what they think... JR seems to be thinking like me from what I'm heard hes very positive and hopeful about it. Stone cold however, typical my era was better type, goes on about selling and protecting moves, yet the attitude era was known for starting underselling and doing moves like the DDT as a transition move, yet he hates on it now for not protecting the DDT or storytelling in the ring? Attitude era main events brawled in the crowd and outside the ring then used run ins and ref bumps haha which i loved but what's the story there? You hit on the one huge positive I took away from last night. Those promos were so very clearly not scripted, and that was awesome. I assume it was simply because they didn't have time to write for all of these guys, but maybe they liked what they saw and will be a little bit more loose with it going forward. I don't care that Kalisto fell flat on his face. That stuff is going to happen. I'd rather hear a bad backstage interview than a scripted, robotic one. If that change sticks, I will be immensely pleased. As for Austin, I think he recognizes that his generation wasn't innocent. A lot of us are guilty of looking at the Attitude Era with rose-colored glasses. I consider that they heyday for story-telling up and down the card (as in, most people usually had an angle that mattered), but outside of that, it hasn't aged very well. I think Austin's primary point is that if you're going to remove all of the crash TV elements, you need to have a heavier focus on ring psychology. I tend to agree with that philosophy. There were enough distractions during the Attitude Era to get away with going a little lighter in that department, where as now,there's a heavier focus on the in-ring action without the bells and whistles, so it requires guys to be a little bit more technically sound, or risk having their matches feel hollow. Yeh me too it gave me the feeling that everyone can start again from here and that creatively there gonna be more free now, hopefully that wasn't just for the network show. Dolph Ziggler and sheamus interviews were so real and instantly made you care about them, so it just shows you can get behind a talent again with a fresh start. Yeah I agree about the attitude era. Top to bottom every match mattered and had a story behind it where as now matches can seem pointless. Hopefully that changes now with the brand split tho as rivalries have more time to develop and characters develop etc. NXT has done it perfectly with a smaller roster so hopefully the brands grow like that has but it will take time |
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Joined on: Nov 18, 2024 17:26:36 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2016 12:49:20 GMT -5
this debate is pointless tho, your always gonna get 3 types of fans, just like all sports teams have
-the blindly loyal positive no matter what
-the negative I know better always find something to complain about
- the negative when there losing but biggest fan when there winning
and them 3 types will never get along or agree haha
So just be whatever category you are and get on with watching the greatest show on the planet. WWE
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Post by PJ on Jul 20, 2016 13:00:16 GMT -5
The only thing I wish was different is I wish Orton was on RAW and Enzo and Cass were on SD, because honestly the only reason I have for tuning into SD really is Orton so if he was on RAW I could pass on SD altogether. And with Enzo and Cass I am sure everyone knows how I feel about them. So that would have been a win win for me.
Although will say last night was the first match I watched of Ambrose's where he didn't ruin it for me with that stupid mid-ropes slingshot clothesline or his catfight beatdown. So if he could put on more matches like the one last night I wouldn't mind tuning into SD on a regular basis.
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