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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 7, 2016 11:30:10 GMT -5
Each week now on TV, we hear the same old stuff. Boos for Roman Reigns, cheers for Kevin Owens, boos for John Cena, cheers for AJ Styles. But yet, Vince never wants to change the direction of their characters. And then that makes for fans to get irritated, frustrated, and bored with the product a lot of the time. Ratings don't do well, and the WWE can't understand why??
Now imagine if they did that in 1997. What would have happened to the WWE if Vince kept Steve Austin as a heel?? Would the WWE boomed in 1998 with someone else as the top face?? Cause we all know it was Austin that did it. But if Vince refused to turn Austin face, I wonder if someone else would have been the guy to do it??
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 7, 2016 12:47:27 GMT -5
In 1997 WWE lost Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart who where THE guys of the company. The only top star who remained was The Undertaker and he was involved in the Kane storyline so if Austin stayed heel who would've been the top face? The Rock was a heel and Vince didn't want to push Owen Hart so it would never have worked.
If you look back to 1998 Stone Cold basically saved the company. He was the hell raising anti hero who fans loved and tuned in to see.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 7, 2016 12:50:53 GMT -5
In 1997 WWE lost Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart who where THE guys of the company. The only top star who remained was The Undertaker and he was involved in the Kane storyline so if Austin stayed heel who would've been the top face? The Rock was a heel and Vince didn't want to push Owen Hart so it would never have worked. If you look back to 1998 Stone Cold basically saved the company. He was the hell raising anti hero who fans loved and tuned in to see.Exactly! So just imagine if Vince would turn Styles and Owens face! They could help make the WWE 'cool' again! But instead, we get the same old crap. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 7, 2016 12:56:41 GMT -5
In 1997 WWE lost Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart who where THE guys of the company. The only top star who remained was The Undertaker and he was involved in the Kane storyline so if Austin stayed heel who would've been the top face? The Rock was a heel and Vince didn't want to push Owen Hart so it would never have worked. If you look back to 1998 Stone Cold basically saved the company. He was the hell raising anti hero who fans loved and tuned in to see.Exactly! So just imagine if Vince would turn Styles and Owens face! They could help make the WWE 'cool' again! But instead, we get the same old crap. Styles should never have turned heel. The only reasion why it happened is because Vince wamted his own Bullet Club and then he got bored very fast and we're now stuck with a heel Aj. I do like KO as a heel but who knows he could be interesting as a face. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 7, 2016 13:03:47 GMT -5
Exactly! So just imagine if Vince would turn Styles and Owens face! They could help make the WWE 'cool' again! But instead, we get the same old crap. Styles should never have turned heel. The only reasion why it happened is because Vince wamted his own Bullet Club and then he got bored very fast and we're now stuck with a heel Aj. I do like KO as a heel but who knows he could be interesting as a face. Austin never changed his style when they made him face. He still did the same thing, acted the same way and that's why fans loved him. Kevin Owens could do the same. He already gets a face reaction, so why not just put him against the bad guys then?? |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 7, 2016 13:10:45 GMT -5
Styles should never have turned heel. The only reasion why it happened is because Vince wamted his own Bullet Club and then he got bored very fast and we're now stuck with a heel Aj. I do like KO as a heel but who knows he could be interesting as a face. Austin never changed his style when they made him face. He still did the same thing, acted the same way and that's why fans loved him. Kevin Owens could do the same. He already gets a face reaction, so why not just put him against the bad guys then?? It could work if they keep Rollins heel. |
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Revy
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 12, 2011 22:31:15 GMT -5
Posts: 707
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Post by Revy on Sept 7, 2016 13:11:01 GMT -5
Ahhhh 1997 how I love thee. No seriously, 97 was so fantastic because Vince was seeing what it would take to get the ratings. He gave in to Stone Cold, he stopped doing the goofy crap, it was wonderful. I mean Bret Hart was a heel for goodness sake. And I believe 1997 was the Hitman's best work and that's coming from a Shawn guy. Only thing I didn't really care for was The Patriot and Truth Commision. But to your point, Vince started listening and it worked.
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Post by mikey1974 on Sept 7, 2016 14:32:09 GMT -5
Ahhhh 1997 how I love thee. No seriously, 97 was so fantastic because Vince was seeing what it would take to get the ratings. He gave in to Stone Cold, he stopped doing the goofy crap, it was wonderful. I mean Bret Hart was a heel for goodness sake. And I believe 1997 was the Hitman's best work and that's coming from a Shawn guy. Only thing I didn't really care for was The Patriot and Truth Commision. But to your point, Vince started listening and it worked. And there it is. Vince finally listened, finally realized he wasn't infallible. WCW kicking his ass for a year and nearly having the WWF go out of business forced him to change. Problem now is there is no viable competition, and the company is nowhere near being in financial peril. |
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Post by The Brain on Sept 7, 2016 15:00:51 GMT -5
Ahhhh 1997 how I love thee. No seriously, 97 was so fantastic because Vince was seeing what it would take to get the ratings. He gave in to Stone Cold, he stopped doing the goofy crap, it was wonderful. I mean Bret Hart was a heel for goodness sake. And I believe 1997 was the Hitman's best work and that's coming from a Shawn guy. Only thing I didn't really care for was The Patriot and Truth Commision. But to your point, Vince started listening and it worked. And there it is. Vince finally listened, finally realized he wasn't infallible. WCW kicking his ass for a year and nearly having the WWF go out of business forced him to change. Problem now is there is no viable competition, and the company is nowhere near being in financial peril. Sadly true. If there is no competition Vince won't have a care in the world and the product as a whole will suffer for it.
97/98 was must see tv for the WWF. With WCW firmly in control in the ratings, Mcmahon had to change things up and he did without hesitation. Better angles, announcing, gimmicks etc.
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Deleted
Joined on: Nov 30, 2024 11:34:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 12:55:13 GMT -5
Imagine if Eric Bischoff never fired Austin and the nWo just bodied the WWF. Though to be fair, as great as Austin was in WCW, I dunno if anyone predicted he'd go on to be the biggest draw in WWE history.
But yeah. I love Taker, don't get me wrong, but the numbers just aren't there for him as a draw in the mid-late 90s in terms of house show buyrates, PPV buyrates etc. He's the kinda guy, imo, who worked better as a special attraction, but not THE attraction.
Interesting thing I learned researching that is that Diesel held the B PPV buyrate record even over post Mike Tyson angle Stone Cold.
But yeah, if WCW had smarter management, all the stars were in their favor tbh. Goldberg was on the cusp of becoming the biggest draw in WCW history around that time, the Wolfpac/nWo Hollywood were still hot sellers, Nash took off as a singles act etc
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Sept 8, 2016 21:41:14 GMT -5
Imagine if Eric Bischoff never fired Austin and the nWo just bodied the WWF. Though to be fair, as great as Austin was in WCW, I dunno if anyone predicted he'd go on to be the biggest draw in WWE history. But yeah. I love Taker, don't get me wrong, but the numbers just aren't there for him as a draw in the mid-late 90s in terms of house show buyrates, PPV buyrates etc. He's the kinda guy, imo, who worked better as a special attraction, but not THE attraction. Interesting thing I learned researching that is that Diesel held the B PPV buyrate record even over post Mike Tyson angle Stone Cold. But yeah, if WCW had smarter management, all the stars were in their favor tbh. Goldberg was on the cusp of becoming the biggest draw in WCW history around that time, the Wolfpac/nWo Hollywood were still hot sellers, Nash took off as a singles act etc Wait..... What  ing PPV did Nash get that good of a buyrate on? Lol his run was ing terrible. |
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Post by ricflair4ever on Sept 8, 2016 22:19:15 GMT -5
Imagine if Eric Bischoff never fired Austin and the nWo just bodied the WWF. Though to be fair, as great as Austin was in WCW, I dunno if anyone predicted he'd go on to be the biggest draw in WWE history. But yeah. I love Taker, don't get me wrong, but the numbers just aren't there for him as a draw in the mid-late 90s in terms of house show buyrates, PPV buyrates etc. He's the kinda guy, imo, who worked better as a special attraction, but not THE attraction. Interesting thing I learned researching that is that Diesel held the B PPV buyrate record even over post Mike Tyson angle Stone Cold. But yeah, if WCW had smarter management, all the stars were in their favor tbh. Goldberg was on the cusp of becoming the biggest draw in WCW history around that time, the Wolfpac/nWo Hollywood were still hot sellers, Nash took off as a singles act etc Wait..... What ing PPV did Nash get that good of a buyrate on? Lol his run was ing terrible. I must've missed that PPV myself. It had to have featured a snakeater, Vince performing Stand Back live, random acts of political incorrectness involving midgets, and live porn for Diesel to pop THAT kind of buy rate in 1995. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 9, 2016 1:50:22 GMT -5
Imagine if Eric Bischoff never fired Austin and the nWo just bodied the WWF. Though to be fair, as great as Austin was in WCW, I dunno if anyone predicted he'd go on to be the biggest draw in WWE history. But yeah. I love Taker, don't get me wrong, but the numbers just aren't there for him as a draw in the mid-late 90s in terms of house show buyrates, PPV buyrates etc. He's the kinda guy, imo, who worked better as a special attraction, but not THE attraction. Interesting thing I learned researching that is that Diesel held the B PPV buyrate record even over post Mike Tyson angle Stone Cold. But yeah, if WCW had smarter management, all the stars were in their favor tbh. Goldberg was on the cusp of becoming the biggest draw in WCW history around that time, the Wolfpac/nWo Hollywood were still hot sellers, Nash took off as a singles act etc Wait..... What ing PPV did Nash get that good of a buyrate on? Lol his run was ing terrible. I have a few ideas as to which ones... In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks Diesel vs. Sid in the lumberjack match for the WWE Title HBK vs. Jeff Jarrett for the IC Title Allied Powers vs. Owen/Yoko for the Tag Titles In Your House 3 Diesel/HBK vs. Yoko/Owen(Bulldog) for the WWE, IC & Tag Titles Razor vs. Douglas Bulldog vs. Bigelow In Your House 4 Diesel vs. Bulldog for the WWE Title Douglas vs. HBK(Ramon) for the IC Title Ramon/Kid vs. Gunns for the Tag Titles Those three In Your House PPV cards had some good matches for the under card, and they were only $19.99 a PPV back then. So my guess is that maybe more people ordered the IYH PPV events than the three hour PPV events, thus giving the B PPV cards a higher rating. |
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Post by JC Motors on Sept 9, 2016 11:15:58 GMT -5
Things would have been very different
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Sept 9, 2016 13:12:15 GMT -5
Wait..... What ing PPV did Nash get that good of a buyrate on? Lol his run was ing terrible. I have a few ideas as to which ones... In Your House 2: The Lumberjacks Diesel vs. Sid in the lumberjack match for the WWE Title HBK vs. Jeff Jarrett for the IC Title Allied Powers vs. Owen/Yoko for the Tag Titles In Your House 3 Diesel/HBK vs. Yoko/Owen(Bulldog) for the WWE, IC & Tag Titles Razor vs. Douglas Bulldog vs. Bigelow In Your House 4 Diesel vs. Bulldog for the WWE Title Douglas vs. HBK(Ramon) for the IC Title Ramon/Kid vs. Gunns for the Tag Titles Those three In Your House PPV cards had some good matches for the under card, and they were only $19.99 a PPV back then. So my guess is that maybe more people ordered the IYH PPV events than the three hour PPV events, thus giving the B PPV cards a higher rating. If I had to guess it would be the Diesel/HBK vs Camp Cornette one but I would really like to know which it was. |
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Post by JokerFC on Sept 13, 2016 13:10:13 GMT -5
all of Vinces best creative decisions were born out of competition.......let it be his national expansion and Hulkamania, the JCP opposition/Mega Powers storyline or the WCWNWO/Austin/DX deal.
He would not have been able to keep Austin heel.....the crowd was in love with him since January 97 as far as I can see
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Post by PJ on Sept 13, 2016 15:50:59 GMT -5
The problem is today's fans think they are bigger than the show. Back when Austin changed from heel to face it was because the fans backed him. He didn't change his style or anything and the fans were happy with that. Today's fans cheer and voice their opinion on who should be "The Guy" and crap over anyone who isn't their guy. Yet once they get it the fans quickly turn on it in favor of the next "flavor of the month".
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Post by Sizzle on Sept 13, 2016 15:59:49 GMT -5
The problem is today's fans think they are bigger than the show. Back when Austin changed from heel to face it was because the fans backed him. He didn't change his style or anything and the fans were happy with that. Today's fans cheer and voice their opinion on who should be "The Guy" and crap over anyone who isn't their guy. Yet once they get it the fans quickly turn on it in favor of the next "flavor of the month". The most truthful thing ever spoken. |
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TheXtremisT
Main Eventer
10 Year Member
This is the way
Joined on: May 3, 2008 8:03:15 GMT -5
Posts: 3,954
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Post by TheXtremisT on Sept 15, 2016 4:03:28 GMT -5
The problem is today's fans think they are bigger than the show. Back when Austin changed from heel to face it was because the fans backed him. He didn't change his style or anything and the fans were happy with that. Today's fans cheer and voice their opinion on who should be "The Guy" and crap over anyone who isn't their guy. Yet once they get it the fans quickly turn on it in favor of the next "flavor of the month". But the problem with a lot of popular guys turning from heel to face is that they lose almost all of the attitude and character that made them popular in the first place. The crappy WWE creative booking or Vince's direction to the talent causes them to become watered down and almost 1 dimensional. I cringe with the way Sasha Banks became face this year. She just lost all of her attitude, smiled and cried too much, and wasn't allowed to be the same cocky confident competitor that she was as a heel. I know cockiness isn't really a face persona, but you can still do it correctly - look at Chris Jericho in 2000-1 or Rob Van Dam in 2001-4. They got over HUGE. If WWE allowed Kevin Owens, or Seth Rollins to stay true to their characters, and still turned them face, it would be more believable and less likely to fall flat in the eyes of the fans. People don't want their favorites to change into a copycat smiley and overly respectful face. It's done to death. We have Cena for that. |
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KPnDC
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jun 8, 2013 21:58:21 GMT -5
Posts: 1,754
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Post by KPnDC on Sept 16, 2016 16:52:52 GMT -5
1997, the greatest year in wrestling. My goodness the great memories.
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