havoc7179
Main Eventer
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Joined on: Oct 16, 2012 9:11:18 GMT -5
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Post by havoc7179 on Sept 14, 2016 12:48:17 GMT -5
When the roster was split, eventually Guerrero and Benoit ended up becoming the main title holders of their respective divisions. Arguably, this was not something that could have happened in one giant roster. Both were often overlooked or used primarily to chase the belt, but never touch it. So, much like how Styles, Balor, and Owens seemed to be benefiting right now, one can say that Benoit and Guerrero benefited first.
I wasn't watching that much back then, but I remember Guerrero beating Lesnar, defending against him, and then going on to defeat Angle and JBL. Meanwhile, Benoit eventually won at Wrestlemania, and then beat Michaels, Triple H, and saw him win a tag team title before losing against Randy Orton, and then being forgotten in the chase.
So my question is, the roster split obviously helped give both Guerrero and Benoit a chance to be the main title holders of their brands. Which of these two were booked better? Who had the better opponents at the time? Who had the better reign? Does the fact that one's reign wasn't as good as the others tarnish their legacy from a wrestling standpoint. I'm fully aware that the double murder suicide forever ruined Benoit, and I don't disagree with that. That is not what this post is about. I just want to read your thoughts as to who of those two were handled better.
I'd also like to know who has the potential to be handled better in this draft. My gut is AJ Styles because although you have Cena, it looks like he is willing to build stars rather than break them now that he is working a reduced schedule.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 14, 2016 13:57:47 GMT -5
Guerrero by a mile. He remained a huge player on Smackdown and was even rumoured to win the belt again but his death prevented it.
Benoit however sunk straight down to the mid card after Summerslam 2004 and even before his death he was drafted to ECW which was the lower brand at the time.
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havoc7179
Main Eventer
What is this?
Joined on: Oct 16, 2012 9:11:18 GMT -5
Posts: 4,189
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Post by havoc7179 on Sept 14, 2016 14:47:25 GMT -5
Guerrero by a mile. He remained a huge player on Smackdown and was even rumoured to win the belt again but his death prevented it. Benoit however sunk straight down to the mid card after Summerslam 2004 and even before his death he was drafted to ECW which was the lower brand at the time. Do you think it hurts either of them that there were two main titles at the time and that Benoit's title was thought of as the main title or at least treated as such? Did that factor into any of it? What about the perceived prestige of the title? If we're looking at terms of opponents, you had Benoit facing two HOF in HBK and Triple H. Guerrero had Angle and Lesnar who are most likely HOFers as well. So I think they're equal there. Prestige of the title, I don't know. I always viewed Guerrero's belt as more prestigious even if it was basically second fiddle to the Raw Belt. So I feel like the fact that WWE didn't really see it as the main title hurts his position. At the time Guerrero won, his belt was second place. By way of comparison, Styles' winning of the Smackdown World Title seems more prestigious than the Raw title. Some reasons why is because the caliber of the holder, AJ Styles; because it has Cena chasing it; and because we can connect its lineage to the past. |
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Post by Evil Abed on Sept 14, 2016 15:42:25 GMT -5
Id say they both had their ups and downs. Guerrero had great feuds with Angle and Mysterio, and also made Bradshaw a legit main eventer. Something I never thought would happen at the time. Although he also was booked to be in feuds with Luther Reigns and the Bashams.
Benoit had a solid start to his title run, but then got booked into terrible angles with Eugene, and kind of went back to mid card when Raw was all about Orton, Batista, Triple H, and putting over Edge. I'd say Benoit really lost steam when he got drafted to Smackdown. They had absolutely nothing for him there. Orlando Jordan? Chavo Guerrero? Then drafted to ECW, he just kept moving down the card.
If I had to choose I'd say Guerrero probably benefited more since Benoit always seemed like the guy from the Radicalz that was going to eventually win gold. Eddie had to get a gimmick makeover for that to happen. Although I'd argue that guys like JBL, Edge, Mysterio, Punk, Hardy, etc... benefited the most. I doubt any of those guys get the initial push they needed to become world champion without the draft and shows needing star power.
As for the current crop, definitely AJ Styles, although it seemed like he was doing fine before the split. My guess for breakthrough guy on each brand will be The Miz on Smackdown and Sami Zayn on Raw (since KO has already shined through)
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Post by Kanenite on Sept 14, 2016 15:48:32 GMT -5
I feel like Benoit was pushed harder for those few months he had the WHC and also had more and maybe better opponents in HHH/HBK/Kane/Orton, but Guerrero ended up being a top tier guy for the rest of his career because of his run so I'll go with Eddie. He never really dropped down too far.
Also, Eddie lost the title to JBL in controversial fashion and had a storyline with Angle who was the crooked GM. Benoit lost the title clean to Orton (and like you said Benoit sunk back down to the Midcard after losing the title in August.)
You also mention that the WWE title was second fiddle to the World Heavyweight Championship but I always seen them being equal prestige until JBL won the WWE title (which was after Eddie). Then they were equal again in my eyes when Cena and Batista won them at WM21.
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Post by ricflair4ever on Sept 14, 2016 18:39:25 GMT -5
Eddie in my opinion. Benoit had been involved in the world title picture prior to the draft on a few occasions. He was already likely to have a run with gold eventually as he had been positioned as a threat to it as early as 2000, and was in the chase at the time of his neck surgery. Eddie was really nowhere near the world title picture ,or even main event scene, at any real point prior to the draft.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 14, 2016 19:27:56 GMT -5
Guerrero by a mile. He remained a huge player on Smackdown and was even rumoured to win the belt again but his death prevented it. Benoit however sunk straight down to the mid card after Summerslam 2004 and even before his death he was drafted to ECW which was the lower brand at the time. Do you think it hurts either of them that there were two main titles at the time and that Benoit's title was thought of as the main title or at least treated as such? Did that factor into any of it? What about the perceived prestige of the title? If we're looking at terms of opponents, you had Benoit facing two HOF in HBK and Triple H. Guerrero had Angle and Lesnar who are most likely HOFers as well. So I think they're equal there. Prestige of the title, I don't know. I always viewed Guerrero's belt as more prestigious even if it was basically second fiddle to the Raw Belt. So I feel like the fact that WWE didn't really see it as the main title hurts his position. At the time Guerrero won, his belt was second place. By way of comparison, Styles' winning of the Smackdown World Title seems more prestigious than the Raw title. Some reasons why is because the caliber of the holder, AJ Styles; because it has Cena chasing it; and because we can connect its lineage to the past. Well the WWE title is the company's main title so it will always hold more prestige than the world and universal. In 2004 the WHC was still new and on Raw so it was getting more focus than the WWE title probably because the likes of HHH, HBK etc were fighting over it. I do feel though that the Universal will not recieve the same treatment because it was only created as a prop to for a Raw title. Also look at AJ and Owens. Who is the one that's being talked about the most? |
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Post by Darkhawk on Sept 14, 2016 20:21:28 GMT -5
I would have to go with Eddie Guerrero on this one. Whether he was champion or not he was still a huge fan favorite where as Benoit he didn't get much of a crowd pop than Eddie did.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 14, 2016 22:51:53 GMT -5
I think Benoit's Title reign was handled better than Guerrero's though.
Eddie won the title from Lesnar, and wrestled Rey, Chavo, Angle, and then lost the title eventually to JBL.
Benoit won the World Title defeating Triple H and HBK, then fought Triple H, HBK, Kane, plus also did tag matches in big situations against Evolution.
But Eddie had a personality so it was easy for fans to grasp to him better. As for Benoit, he was just a wrestler. I suppose his character was having no character. But that only connects with certain fans.
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Revy
Superstar
Joined on: Oct 12, 2011 22:31:15 GMT -5
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Post by Revy on Sept 15, 2016 9:39:13 GMT -5
I loved when they teamed up after the first draft when both were vicious heels. Wish they had ran with that more and maybe even have a run with tag titles.
But to answer your question, I'd say Eddie. He was really showcased on Smackdown. Benoit had a solid run, but once he lost the title, he dropped big time.
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Post by Next Manufactured’s Sweater on Sept 18, 2016 8:36:52 GMT -5
Probably Benoit. Eddie was good enough that he would've likely been hitting that top spot even without the roster split. Really, though, JBL benefitted more than either of them from the split in that time period. Kurt Angle's injury, Brock's sudden departure and Eddie's inability to deal with the pressure of being champion meant they were scrambling for someone to hold the Smackdown belt. Triple H was on Raw. That got Bradshaw almost a year as the main titleholder on the show.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 18, 2016 19:26:06 GMT -5
Guerrero definatly benefitted more. From the moment they debuted as the Radicalz, Benoit was positioned as an upper mid-carder who occasionally dabbled in he main event while Eddie was strictly a mid-carder.
Then a few years later when Chris returned from injury and Eddie was hired again, Chris went right back to the upper-midcard and occasionally fought Angle and Brock over the WWE Title while Eddie found his most success in the tag division for the next 1.5 years (though his potential 2002 feud with Austin ended cold when Steve walked out).
Now this isnt meant as a negative to Eddie as he had all the stuff to be a main eventer and deserved everything he achieved, but Chris seemed to fit the "WWE mold" more-so than Eddie. Remember that after they both lost the world title that they both moved back down to the upper-midcard. Difference is though that Chris was constantly the US Champ while Eddie dabbled in feuds with Rey and Luther Reigns before moving back to the world title picture with Batista before passing. I feel this is a combo of the WWE trusting Chris more with titles and Eddie souring in Vince's eyes after requesting the WWE Title be taken off of him.
In the end though had the split never happened I feel Benoit was more likely to win a world title while I question if Eddie would have gotten a chance (Heyman was really Eddie's only backer backstage while Chris had a few others). Both benefited in the end though immensely from the split.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 18, 2016 19:30:28 GMT -5
I think Benoit's Title reign was handled better than Guerrero's though. Eddie won the title from Lesnar, and wrestled Rey, Chavo, Angle, and then lost the title eventually to JBL. Benoit won the World Title defeating Triple H and HBK, then fought Triple H, HBK, Kane, plus also did tag matches in big situations against Evolution. But Eddie had a personality so it was easy for fans to grasp to him better. As for Benoit, he was just a wrestler. I suppose his character was having no character. But that only connects with certain fans. Benoit's character was that of a silent killer (literally no pun intended). He didn't need to speak as he'd go out and tear his opponents apart and fans loved it. He was also in a way the original Daniel Bryan as he'd come so close to winning the world title multiple times over the years, only for it to not happen for one reason or another. That helped fans get behind him immensely. Following his 2003 RR bout with Angle, nobody got a standing ovation every night like Chris did. The fans respected him big time and he consistently got some of the biggest pops in the WWE from 2003 to 2007. |
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Post by dannybosa on Sept 18, 2016 19:43:33 GMT -5
Guerrero by a mile. He remained a huge player on Smackdown and was even rumoured to win the belt again but his death prevented it. Benoit however sunk straight down to the mid card after Summerslam 2004 and even before his death he was drafted to ECW which was the lower brand at the time. he was going to win the ecw championship if he had shown up at vengeance. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 18, 2016 19:50:15 GMT -5
Guerrero by a mile. He remained a huge player on Smackdown and was even rumoured to win the belt again but his death prevented it. Benoit however sunk straight down to the mid card after Summerslam 2004 and even before his death he was drafted to ECW which was the lower brand at the time. he was going to win the ecw championship if he had shown up at vengeance. It was still a huge drop though. WWECW was the third brand and someone like Benoit should've been nowhere near it. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Sept 18, 2016 19:54:35 GMT -5
he was going to win the ecw championship if he had shown up at vengeance. It was still a huge drop though. WWECW was the third brand and someone like Benoit should've been nowhere near it. By the time 2007 came around, Raw and Smackdown had already settled in guys like Edge, Cena, Batista and Orton to be their top dogs. Chris Benoit was probably never gonna be a WWE or World Champion again. But in ECW he could have been the man, and probably would have been the ECW Champion for a long ass time actually. I think the WWE had it planned to revolve ECW around Chris Benoit. Make him the focal point. When he did what he did, it opened the door for Johnny Nitro and CM Punk to be the two top stars. |
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Post by Escape The Rules on Sept 19, 2016 17:05:57 GMT -5
I feel like their careers paralleled each other after the Draft. They were both solid mid card and upper card performers while both on SmackDown in 2002-2003. They went their separate ways in early 2004. Both won their respective world titles at around the same time and lost them 2 months apart that summer. From there they remained in the upper echelon and in the main events for the remainder of 2004. Guerrero was more prominently featured than Benoit in 2005 with his heel turn, program with Mysterio and return to the main event scene with Batista while Benoit pretty much stayed in the mid card.
Guerrero was obviously the more charismatic of the two but that didn't make Benoit any less popular than Guerrero. The ovations he got when his music hit were thunderous. After Guerrero's death was when Benoit started to fall down the card, never to return to the world title scene.
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Thunder Chunky
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Sept 20, 2016 16:57:28 GMT -5
I don't buy the rumor that Eddie was winning the World title before his death. He told Vince he couldn't handle the pressure of being world champion already, I doubt Vince would let him be champion again. I feel like this is something the WWE said to make everyone feel better about the situation.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 20, 2016 18:25:51 GMT -5
I don't buy the rumor that Eddie was winning the World title before his death. He told Vince he couldn't handle the pressure of being world champion already, I doubt Vince would let him be champion again. I feel like this is something the WWE said to make everyone feel better about the situation. This, especially since it was going to be a pointless episode of SD in the buildup to SS. Batista was set to continue to hold the title and it was clear that they were building towards a Batista/Orton match at WM had he not been injured. |
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Post by Jonathan Karate on Sept 22, 2016 0:12:24 GMT -5
Eddie and in my opinion it's not even close.
Benoit was treated the same way Punk was during his long reign. He was the champ but he was playing second fiddle.
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