thespecialone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 8, 2009 17:48:05 GMT -5
Posts: 2,762
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Post by thespecialone on Feb 28, 2017 15:45:09 GMT -5
I am pretty sure that tna airs in more countries worldwide than roh... The two companies couldn't be further apart right now. ROH runs largely successful shows all across the country, has a working relationship with the "hot brand" in pro wrestling (NJPW), and a relatively successful iPPV business. Plus, they've built up a lot of good will with their fanbase over the years. They're also the benefactor of being under the Sinclair umbrella, with syndication across nearly all cable companies. TNA can barely fill a soundstage with people who don't pay to get in. They've squandered nearly their entire fan base, lost nearly all of their major talent, can't draw on TV, can't draw on Pay-Per-View, and are being subsidized by their TV network just to stay afloat. They haven't toured extensively in years and there is absolutely no indication that people would pay to come to their shows. They're hemorrhaging money and couldn't afford to tour even if they wanted to. Without a TV deal, TNA is dead. Still dont get it. Why is CZW alive. Why is PWG? All tna has to do is become low cost...
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Post by J12 on Feb 28, 2017 15:50:30 GMT -5
The two companies couldn't be further apart right now. ROH runs largely successful shows all across the country, has a working relationship with the "hot brand" in pro wrestling (NJPW), and a relatively successful iPPV business. Plus, they've built up a lot of good will with their fanbase over the years. They're also the benefactor of being under the Sinclair umbrella, with syndication across nearly all cable companies. TNA can barely fill a soundstage with people who don't pay to get in. They've squandered nearly their entire fan base, lost nearly all of their major talent, can't draw on TV, can't draw on Pay-Per-View, and are being subsidized by their TV network just to stay afloat. They haven't toured extensively in years and there is absolutely no indication that people would pay to come to their shows. They're hemorrhaging money and couldn't afford to tour even if they wanted to. Without a TV deal, TNA is dead. Still dont get it. Why is CZW alive. Why is PWG? All tna has to do is become low cost... Those companies are alive and thriving because they have low overhead, positive income, and buzz. TNA has no money to pay talent. They have mountains of debt. They have no momentum and no buzz. They have little to no merchandising. They have the worst reputation in pro wrestling. And they have no way to make money to fix any of those problems. The only income they have coming in is from their TV deals, and it's not enough to get them out of the hole. If that goes away, they go away. There is a mountain of inertia working against them. They're not a wrestling promotion anymore. They're essentially functioning as a television company producing a wrestling television show. They have none of the infrastructure in place to become a touring brand again, and they don't have the money to even consider it. They're stuck.
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thespecialone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 8, 2009 17:48:05 GMT -5
Posts: 2,762
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Post by thespecialone on Feb 28, 2017 16:05:39 GMT -5
Still dont get it. Why is CZW alive. Why is PWG? All tna has to do is become low cost... Those companies are alive and thriving because they have low overhead, positive income, and buzz. TNA has no money to pay talent. They have mountains of debt. They have no momentum and no buzz. They have little to no merchandising. They have the worst reputation in pro wrestling. And they have no way to make money to fix any of those problems. The only income they have coming in is from their TV deals, and it's not enough to get them out of the hole. If that goes away, they go away. There is a mountain of inertia working against them. They're not a wrestling promotion anymore. They're essentially functioning as a television company producing a wrestling television show. They have none of the infrastructure in place to become a touring brand again, and they don't have the money to even consider it. They're stuck. I am pretty sure czw and pwg have little merchandise... And people tend to forget that there is world beside usa and uk. Tna airs in Spain, Germany, Portugal, France and italy. And those are just the ones I am sure. Thats about 400M potencial viewers. More than Usa population. And UK seems a matter of time before a TV deal is done. The ratings were reasonable there for years.
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Post by J12 on Feb 28, 2017 16:20:33 GMT -5
Those companies are alive and thriving because they have low overhead, positive income, and buzz. TNA has no money to pay talent. They have mountains of debt. They have no momentum and no buzz. They have little to no merchandising. They have the worst reputation in pro wrestling. And they have no way to make money to fix any of those problems. The only income they have coming in is from their TV deals, and it's not enough to get them out of the hole. If that goes away, they go away. There is a mountain of inertia working against them. They're not a wrestling promotion anymore. They're essentially functioning as a television company producing a wrestling television show. They have none of the infrastructure in place to become a touring brand again, and they don't have the money to even consider it. They're stuck. I am pretty sure czw and pwg have little merchandise... And people tend to forget that there is world beside usa and uk. Tna airs in Spain, Germany, Portugal, France and italy. And those are just the ones I am sure. Thats about 400M potencial viewers. More than Usa population. And UK seems a matter of time before a TV deal is done. The ratings were reasonable there for years. Merchandise is one sliver of the equation. You know what CZW and PWG do have? Ticket sales. TNA can barely get people to wander into their sound stage for free, let alone ask someone to pay to watch their product. That 400 million figure is irrelevant. There are far fewer people than that with access to cable television, and even fewer who want to watch wrestling, and only a sliver of those people want to watch TNA. You're grossly overestimating their reach. The international TV deals are bringing in enough money to keep the lights on. How does that equate to any level of success? They're not making money. Period. They barely have the cash flow to tape their weekly TV. Without that weekly TV, their international deals are moot. They can't tour internationally, because they don't have the money.
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thespecialone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 8, 2009 17:48:05 GMT -5
Posts: 2,762
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Post by thespecialone on Feb 28, 2017 18:54:39 GMT -5
I am pretty sure czw and pwg have little merchandise... And people tend to forget that there is world beside usa and uk. Tna airs in Spain, Germany, Portugal, France and italy. And those are just the ones I am sure. Thats about 400M potencial viewers. More than Usa population. And UK seems a matter of time before a TV deal is done. The ratings were reasonable there for years. Merchandise is one sliver of the equation. You know what CZW and PWG do have? Ticket sales. TNA can barely get people to wander into their sound stage for free, let alone ask someone to pay to watch their product. That 400 million figure is irrelevant. There are far fewer people than that with access to cable television, and even fewer who want to watch wrestling, and only a sliver of those people want to watch TNA. You're grossly overestimating their reach. The international TV deals are bringing in enough money to keep the lights on. How does that equate to any level of success? They're not making money. Period. They barely have the cash flow to tape their weekly TV. Without that weekly TV, their international deals are moot. They can't tour internationally, because they don't have the money. Thats why i said potential. Same reason usa has 250M potential viewers. Of course not all watch wrestling. But in in the usa you can measure their popularity in Europe. Which, no matter how bad the product is, is by far more popular than any indy american company. Not even ROH. Im not trying to defend TNA product here (i dont even watch TNA so if you say its terrible i will take it) but its silly to hear for like 8 years now that they are done. It used to be cool and hip. Now its just silly. So they lost Hardys... Like they lost Angle, Sting, MCMG, Roode, AA, Joe and so many others for years now. And it kept going. Worse or better the show goes on.
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Post by J12 on Feb 28, 2017 19:17:31 GMT -5
Merchandise is one sliver of the equation. You know what CZW and PWG do have? Ticket sales. TNA can barely get people to wander into their sound stage for free, let alone ask someone to pay to watch their product. That 400 million figure is irrelevant. There are far fewer people than that with access to cable television, and even fewer who want to watch wrestling, and only a sliver of those people want to watch TNA. You're grossly overestimating their reach. The international TV deals are bringing in enough money to keep the lights on. How does that equate to any level of success? They're not making money. Period. They barely have the cash flow to tape their weekly TV. Without that weekly TV, their international deals are moot. They can't tour internationally, because they don't have the money. Thats why i said potential. Same reason usa has 250M potential viewers. Of course not all watch wrestling. But in in the usa you can measure their popularity in Europe. Which, no matter how bad the product is, is by far more popular than any indy american company. Not even ROH. Im not trying to defend TNA product here (i dont even watch TNA so if you say its terrible i will take it) but its silly to hear for like 8 years now that they are done. It used to be cool and hip. Now its just silly. So they lost Hardys... Like they lost Angle, Sting, MCMG, Roode, AA, Joe and so many others for years now. And it kept going. Worse or better the show goes on. I don't think losing the Hardys is going to be the death of them, either (though this will be the first time in a long time that they have no major names - homegrown or otherwise), my point was simply that they're not a company that can exist without a TV deal because of the debts they have, their inability to tour due to said debts, and the lack of general interest in the product. So long as they have a stateside TV deal in place, I'm quite sure they'll keep trucking along, for better or for worse.
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Falconsinclair
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 24, 2012 9:16:24 GMT -5
Posts: 800
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Post by Falconsinclair on Mar 3, 2017 5:59:19 GMT -5
Really what TNA has to do is find a smaller venue that they can rent out and that has the potential to be expanded when ticket sales start to increase. That way they can at least start to make some money at the gate and not rent out space and bring in fans for free.
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Post by Prophet of Ash on Mar 3, 2017 12:05:16 GMT -5
Really what TNA has to do is find a smaller venue that they can rent out and that has the potential to be expanded when ticket sales start to increase. That way they can at least start to make some money at the gate and not rent out space and bring in fans for free. a picture of said venue, with every fan willing to pay to watch TNA in attendance.
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powerfred3k
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 12, 2012 22:12:11 GMT -5
Posts: 3,757
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Post by powerfred3k on Mar 3, 2017 23:27:03 GMT -5
So 6 wrestlers leaving tna gave them enough money to pay del-rio ??
Seriously Jeff Jarrett what they hell are you doing ??
Aparently Del-Rio is so good he is going to wrestle a broomstick for the heavyweight title since there is no one left.
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Post by punksnotdead on Mar 4, 2017 9:22:31 GMT -5
PWG does big business off of their DVD/Youtube business. It's so exclusive and cool that they've made it almost like a club that most people can only watch from a window. PWG is also happy not trying to grow. They've become profitable and don't want to rock the boat, which is smart as hell. They found a way to maintain lightning in a bottle by filling that building every time out and then putting the best Independent talent in the country in their ring with no limitations. It's the true definition of a cult following.
CZW is just a niche wrestling company and isn't any more successful than a company like WrestlePro. They have a fraction of the overhead that TNA has and don't have TV or full time talent under contract. When they do get guys like Richochet or Sami Callihan it's one-offs. They also stick to a specific area where they have an audience built up.
I live in Florida. It's not the Northeast. It's not even the Chicago area scene where I grew up watching wrestling. TNA doesn't really have anywhere to go other than Orlando (which largely pulls the Tampa crowd), Jacksonville and South Florida to tour live events in the state. I went to a TNA house show in Ft Lauderdale in 2012 headlined by Jeff Hardy vs Bobby Roode for the title. There were maybe 200 people in the building. I've seen ROH in that same building twice over the last two years and both times there were considerably more people than TNA had, especially the first show that was headlined by The Bucks. It was at least double the TNA attendance.
TNA had the wrong business plan for years. It wasn't sustainable because they weren't making enough money. Dixie's parents were eating the bill. Period. The TV deals don't cover their overhead. Bruce Prichard has said it, Billy Corgan has said it, and the wrestlers who missed paychecks can certainly attest to it. So TNA has to almost start over in terms of gaining an audience. The goodwill attached to TNA left with AJ Styles, with Sting, with Angle, with Samoa Joe and Bobby Roode. People tuning in just for the Hardys are gone now.
TNA is stuck because they have to shoot this expensive show on a sound stage where they don't charge the audience to attend. So the only profit comes from shirts. They probaly need to try charging people for the impact zone shows and see how it goes. $15-20 a head. See how it works. Alternatively they hit the road, but, as I said, they have no good will as a brand and no real names to get people out for shows. They have a long road ahead of themselves. It's probably going to get worse before it gets better too.
I'm adamant that Del Rio doesn't bring any drawing power to the show. He's also almost 40. So that's just a guy TNA is paying without asking the roi on him being there, which is largely the same mistake Jarrett has made in the past, probably because he doesn't know any better. Drew Galloway, Mike Bennett, Cody, all guys who you have time to make TNA guys over time the same way they did with Christian, Angle, and Joe. But Del Rio doesn't fit that mold imo.
I think TNA is better off paying Cody for spot appearances than Del Rio any kind of long term anything. Cody has cool factor buzz because he's in the BC. Something TNA desperately needs with the Hardys leaving. I honestly think Bruce Prichard being on TNA TV is just as buzzworthy as Del Rio. More people listen to Prichard's podcast every week than watch TNA, considerably more actually. TNA needs new young anchors and the closest thing they have to that still on the roster is probably Moose and Eli Drake. EC3 is the only guy who is a rock for that company imo.
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