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Post by RSCTom on Nov 6, 2017 9:42:52 GMT -5
Still kind of wracking my brain around this entire thing. It's definitely changed me for the better and been something I've enjoyed more than a LOT over the years, so I guess that's a positive. I definitely think about this show and what we saw daily. I have had a blast.
In another view, I'm not sure I asked for this type of doorway in my brain to be opened haha. I love the fact that it's all left up to interpretation for the viewer but my interpretation was a place I wasn't expecting to/wanting to go.
Even though that's the case, all the talk about a 4th season and the stuff found out in The Final Dossier kind of kills my interpretation of what happened (for now) and leaves me with a glimmer of hope for something else.
But I can't even imagine where we could go from here! Which is kind of how I went into the 3rd season (the first visual of Mr. C literally blew my mind haha) so that's exciting, but wanted to see what you guys thought?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 9:47:32 GMT -5
. SOMEONE ANSWER THIS FOR ME.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2017 10:15:04 GMT -5
Though if you want more answers, there are two books you need to read - Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier by Mark Frost - This explains the last episode The Secret History of Twin Peaks: A Novel by Mark Frost - This explains a lot of the extraterrestrial happenings prior to the Laura Palmer arc. In reference to "Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier", here's an article speaking about it: From Vulture.com - www.vulture.com/2017/10/twin-peaks-the-return-finale-ending-explained-by-mark-frost.html"Mark Frost’s New Twin Peaks Book Explains What Those Final Scenes Meant" "It was the scream heard around the world — or in the Twin Peaks metropolitan area, at the very least. Fans have been speculating about the last few spooky minutes of the Twin Peaks:The Return finale since it aired in September. Let us set the scene: Agent Dale Cooper (or is it Richard?) retrieves a woman physically resembling Laura Palmer but referred to as “Carrie Page” from Odessa, Texas, and drives her to Twin Peaks to reunite with her mother after 25 years. However, in true Lynchian form, all hell breaks loose when they arrive. Mrs. Palmer doesn’t live in the house. In fact, she never did. Cooper, dumbfounded by what is transpiring, tries to make sense of everything by asking, “What year is this?” Meanwhile, Carrie, hearing the voice of her mother in the air whispering “Lauraaaaaa,” has a sudden realization and lets out one of the most terrifying screams in television history. The house’s lights turn off. Fade to black. So what happened? The most common theory about this unsettling conclusion — and there are a lot of theories — is that Cooper and his secretary Diane Evans crossed into an alternative dimension in their car in the hopes that Cooper could save Laura from her original, grisly fate. Unfortunately, Judy, the all-powerful entity who thrives on electricity, saw through his plan, and stuck the duo in alternative dimensions for the rest of their lives with no chance of returning to the “real” Twin Peaks ever again. With flashbacks earlier in the finale, it was also implied that when Cooper traveled back in time to rescue Laura in the woods before she arrived at the train car for her certain death, his interference actually prevented her from dying. Co-creator Mark Frost’s new book, Twin Peaks: The Finale Dossier, confirms that is indeed true. The novel, which is a part of the show’s canon, is told in the form of classified FBI files, and the last chapter picks up immediately after the events of the finale. Agent Tammy Preston stayed in town for a few days to cover the aftermath for the FBI and perused old editions of the Twin Peaks Post to aid her research. What she discovered while reading articles confirms that history was rewritten for Laura Palmer’s story. You know what else I discovered, Chief, in that same article, a few sentences later? This: “Agent Cooper had come to town for a few months earlier, to aid in the investigation into the disappearance, still unsolved, of local teenage beauty queen, Laura Palmer.” Let me repeat that phrase for you: “still unsolved.” No mention of “murder,” “wrapped in plastic,” or “father arrested for shocking crime eventually dies in police custody of self-inflicted wounds.” It’s right there on the front page: Laura Palmer did not die. So, fairly certain I’ve not misplaced my own mind, I go back and check the corresponding police records. They tell me this: Laura Palmer disappeared from Twin Peaks without a trace — on the very same night when, in the world we thought we knew, it used to be said she died — but the police never found the girl or, if she had been killed elsewhere, her body or made a single arrest. Agent Preston continues by saying that when she went to speak to the employees at the sheriff’s station about Laura, “they all got a slightly dazed and confused expression on their faces when I brought it up, as if they were lost in a fog.” Soon enough, they all responded with the exact same sentence: “Yeah, that sounds right. That’s how I remember it.” Laura’s case, to this day, is listed as open and pending investigation, with Ronette Pulaski confirming she never emerged from the woods to get to the train car. Her disappearance began to fade from the news after a few weeks since there were no substantial leads. Leland Palmer eventually killed himself out of grief a year later. Laura’s mother, meanwhile, went into a deep depression and battled alcoholism and prescription drug addiction ever since. And with that, Carrie Page’s life in Odessa began."
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Post by punksnotdead on Nov 6, 2017 11:05:15 GMT -5
I tend to think about the series being over after Episode 17. The story we know is really Dale vs Bob. We see that battle come to an end as the credits roll on Episode 17.
Episode 18 is the Epilogue for a new chapter of the story. So, for me anyway, Chapters 1-3 are closed and what we get in Episode 18 is this new iteration based on the information we've obtained from watching those 3 seasons.
When Dale and Diane crossover in Episode 18, we see the end of their story together. Diane submits that she can't fight this battle with Coop anymore, and even if she could, she (they) wouldn't be the same in the other dimension anyway. Dale is the Gunslinger. He's the guy who will always be the weapon of Good in the fight against Evil. To me, Frost and Lynch were trying to tell us that Dale's story is a Mobius Strip. Maybe in some version of reality he's able to save Laura, in others, she dies. But this battle is seemingly endless, and he just bounces from one reality to the next, combating Judy and whatever version of a monster she creates to try and destroy the good in the world.
So in Seasons 1-3 we see Dale fail, because Laura dies even though he destroys Evil Coop and Bob. In the epilogue to that story, we see him succeed, or really just start over in the way of a video game giving you another life. That could potentially mean the start of Chapter 4, or, and this is what I assume, that was the end that they had in mind to present to us. That Dale can win, but he can just as easily lose, and this story that we're seeing has no beginning, or end, and the battle of Good vs Evil is infinite. So if we never get a fourth season, I am more than content with how it ended.
I'm definitely buying the season on BR when it comes out next month. So I'm going to take my time and do a rewatch after I get it. I fully expect to discover more tangible narrative. We get caught up trying to find answers in every little element of the story when we go week-to-week with something this abstract. I'm looking forward to just sort of relaxing and seeing what my brain picks up as I rewatch the story. I do agree though. I'm not sure this is what I asked for when I get into this whole deal. Not that I didn't love it, because I certainly did. However, I feel as if we're caught in this awkward purgatory of Lynch feeling like he told us the answers, but the audience not entirely sure they understand the answers he gave us.
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Post by RSCTom on Nov 6, 2017 14:14:00 GMT -5
That's kind of where I'm at with it. My interpretation I don't really see Laura 'not dying'.
Coop is like a modern day astronaut. He's an American hero, transcending all this normalcy. But I feel like he snuck his way into 'the afterlife' and now he's paying the price for it with confusion. There are a bunch of mystical elements I can't get over (the change in location appearance, 430 miles being incorrect when traveling from Odessa to Twin Peaks) and it keeps me from feeling like this is something normal. The more I see people discuss it though I'm coming off the 'death' ledge and thinking of it in more dimensionally as you're suggesting. Overall I can't get enough of this haha
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Post by punksnotdead on Nov 6, 2017 15:50:33 GMT -5
I think the idea that it's the afterlife is just as reasonable as any other theory. I've theorized, on multiple occasions throughout this show, that Coop is actually dying and what we were seeing as reality is really his brain shutting down. So if we assume Season 1 is real life, and Season 2 and 3 are just Coop getting closure for Laura (in his own mind) before he dies, then episode 18 is the next phase of his journey, so the afterlife. I think you could easily assume the entire Return was actually purgatory. So just when Coop thinks he's defeated Bob and is going to move onto Heaven where he gets to save the girl, the cycle starts all over again. I think it's entirely possible that Twin Peaks falls somewhere between Silent Hill and Jacob's Ladder.
Debating a plane of existence is almost splitting hairs. I don't know how much Coop's motivation really changes in one versus the other. We do know that Episode 18 Coop was an amalgamation of the previous Coops, but if we stop long enough to ask why then we get caught in the spiderweb of what is real, what is not, all over again. I don't think that there has ever been a show where the audience all watched the exact same content, but each person walked away with something so different from the experience.
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Post by RSCTom on Nov 29, 2017 13:03:18 GMT -5
Ran through the 1st and 2nd season with my gf over the last few weeks. Pretty awesome actually. WAY different of a show than what we have now (I have only watched it once through and that was 5 or 6 years ago now) and after seeing the 3rd season, so much of the out-there dialogue is way more impactful. I highly recommend! Going to watch Fire Walk With Me this weekend and will snag Season 3 when it comes out on blu ray.
Particularly the last episode of season 2 is just SO out there after knowing everything I know!
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Post by RSCTom on Feb 7, 2018 12:32:01 GMT -5
I feel lost & alone without this now
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 23:37:11 GMT -5
I feel lost & alone without this now How's Annie?
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Post by RSCTom on Mar 6, 2018 12:47:02 GMT -5
I feel lost & alone without this now How's Annie? Let's talk about that for a minute. Can someone explain the appeal of that character to me? I see why Lynch behaves the way he does since he didn't make her up and he sees it as kind of a nuisance but he still plays with it (my interpretation anyway). But people seem to LOVE her, LOVE Audrey, etc. Where does this come from? Is it just because we never got an answer to her wrapped up? What's the appeal of Annie who is basically just a smiley diner waitress? I 'kind of' see the appeal of Audrey but she was always more of a sleaze/brat to me. I wasn't shocked at all in how she was behaving in season 3 and people seemed to have been blown away by it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2018 11:03:56 GMT -5
Let's talk about that for a minute. Can someone explain the appeal of that character to me? I see why Lynch behaves the way he does since he didn't make her up and he sees it as kind of a nuisance but he still plays with it (my interpretation anyway). But people seem to LOVE her, LOVE Audrey, etc. Where does this come from? Is it just because we never got an answer to her wrapped up? What's the appeal of Annie who is basically just a smiley diner waitress? I 'kind of' see the appeal of Audrey but she was always more of a sleaze/brat to me. I wasn't shocked at all in how she was behaving in season 3 and people seemed to have been blown away by it. I can't speak for anyone else obviously, but for me personally there are several reasons. Before I share those though, I need to give my backstory right quick. I had never seen Twin Peaks in my life until this past summer. I had heard about it for years and finally decided to see it. I was completely blown away and couldn't believe a show like this had existed in that time period. Now onto Annie... Reason one... I made it a point not to do ANY research on the show in terms of who was in it, whether they were coming back for the reboot, etc. Anyways, I've always liked Heather Graham as an actress. She's been around for quite a while. She's stunningly gorgeous even today and I don't know, she just seems really chill. So it was quite a surprise when she appeared in the show because I had no idea she was in Twin Peaks. Second, I thought Annie had great chemistry with Cooper. And honestly, it was one of the bright spots in what I thought was the decline of the show. The truth is, Twin Peaks was at its best from season one through the Leland arc in season two. I was really disappointed she wasn't in the reboot. Although, I thought the reboot was an absolute travesty anyway (but that's a conversation for another day). As far as Audrey goes, I started liking her a lot as the show went on. I thought it was interesting that she was supposed to be the one having the romance with Cooper, but Kyle MacLachlan's girlfriend at the time, Lara Flynn Boyle aka Donna, nixed it because she and Sherilyn Flynn didn't get along on set. Also, Audrey's insanity didn't surprise me much. She survived a traumatic event (explosion). And while she was vulnerable in the hospital, she was raped by who she thought was the genuine Cooper. Understandable why she lost it. But yeah, I really liked Annie. She was a natural fit to me. Gosh, talking about Twin Peaks again makes me miss it. Season one and the first ten or so episodes of season two was just mind-boggingly amazing TV. I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVVVVEEEEEEEE YYYOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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Post by RSCTom on Mar 7, 2018 13:11:41 GMT -5
I was really disappointed she wasn't in the reboot. Although, I thought the reboot was an absolute travesty anyway (but that's a conversation for another day). This is not a conversation for another day. This is a conversation for immediately. Also your points make sense! Cool to see your perspective.
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BOB
Jobber
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Post by BOB on Apr 20, 2018 13:27:07 GMT -5
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Post by punksnotdead on Apr 20, 2018 13:33:22 GMT -5
Annie is to Coop as the Mother is to Ted.
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