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Post by blissfan4life on Jun 20, 2017 10:20:36 GMT -5
Never has a match or storyline disgusted me so much than Hunter vs. Booker T at WM 19. At a PPV Where it took The Rock Three Rock Bottoms to pin Austin, it only takes HHH one Pedigree to put down Booker. and Having the racist proven right left me a bitter taste in my mouth. Just ugh.
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Post by K5 on Jun 20, 2017 10:33:14 GMT -5
at least booker tried that flipping leg drop in the match though...  |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 20, 2017 10:50:34 GMT -5
Never been confirmed but rumors say that Booker was originally scheduled to win until they signed Goldberg and plans changed.
The one blemish on WM19 IMO (besides Kane and RVD on the preshow) was Booker not winning the big one. The fans wanted it. After watching HHH plow through RVD, Kane and Steiner, the fans wanted to see someone besides HBK knock off HHH.
And it's not like HHH needed the belt for the next few months. I get they wanted to give the belt more prestige with a longer reign, but HHH/Nash didn't need the belt. Hell, Booker winning the belt and dropping it a week later would have elevated him by showing that he can win the big one. Instead, the program hurt his stock immensely and he was stuck in the midcard for the next 3 years until he had a complete gimmick overhaul.
The biggest problem though is that they had no other top heels for Booker to feud with had he won the title. They were so dead set on pushing HHH that it hurt all the other heels on Raw. Jericho was the next top heel and by that point he was seen as a midcarder. If Booker wins the title and HHH goes off to face Nash, that leaves Jericho and Christian to feud with him unless they turned Kane heel sooner (Steiners stock was dead after the HHH feud). That also leaves Goldberg with no one to feud with after The Rock.
Raw really was dreadful back then.
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Post by wolfpac on Jun 20, 2017 11:33:09 GMT -5
Also to note on that mania
Rock hit 3 Rock Bottoms to win
Hogan Hit 3 Leg Drops to win
Lesnar Hit 3 F-5s to win
HHH Hit 1 Pedigree
...
I always had the feeling Booker was going to win till Nash was cleared to return and it was convinced he needed a main event run with HHH and Booker T would have been feuding with Mid-card heels.
But it also would have given rise to the mid card heels like Jericho, Christian and Kane when he turned, even Flair Vs Booker T could have been a PPV match around the time.
And I agree HHH/Nash didn't need the title.. as proven with HHH/HBK which Didn't need the title to main event over the champion Benoit the following year.
Triple H could have dropped it to Booker T then won it back after the HITC with Nash and everything still would have worked out the same but maybe Booker would have been viewed as a higher Commodity
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 11:35:37 GMT -5
Booker got screwed
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jun 20, 2017 11:37:05 GMT -5
I don't think it had anything to do with Nash returning or Goldberg arriving. I think it was just because at that time frame, Triple H wanted to be Ric Flair!
Think back to the old territory days. Flair would come in on TV as NWA Champion, and the number 1 baby face at the time would pin Flair in a tag match on TV, or a non title match. Then at the big event for the Title, Flair either held it by beating the guy, or it went to a draw.
Weeks before Wrestlemania 19 (I wanna say even before No Way Out in February) Booker T pinned Triple H. So Triple H was pretty much just doing what Flair did in the early 80s.
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Zincdust
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Post by Zincdust on Jun 20, 2017 12:50:20 GMT -5
The only thing that I really got a charge out of during this scenario was Booker getting to use his old WCW catch phrase "Don't hate the player... HATE THE GAME" on a seriously personal level. I thought the catch phrase was cheesy as all get-out until he used it directly in Triple H's face, and then I was like "WOW".
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Papi Joker
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Post by Papi Joker on Jun 20, 2017 20:12:18 GMT -5
amazing feud, great match, Triple H has a WCW cemetery
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 20, 2017 20:57:54 GMT -5
HHH may have missed the Invasion but he sure made up for it when he run through every WCW star he could come across. Rey was so lucky he was on the blue show.
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Post by T R W on Jun 21, 2017 7:41:05 GMT -5
It is one of the worst booking decisions of that era. If you're going to tell that kind of story with the racism and whatnot, Booker NEEDED to come out on top. The fans wanted it. It was a massive mistake to not put the title on Booker. Even if they put it back on HHH a month later. He should have won that night.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 21, 2017 11:09:05 GMT -5
The problem with Raw during that time was that HBK was the only guy portrayed as being able to go one on one with HHH (even Goldberg was portrayed as an idiot and when he got his win over HHH, it was portrayed as due to HHH being injured). After his one month run with the title, HBK didn't want it anymore. And with Goldberg gone after 1 year, nobody from 2002-2005 was portrayed on HHHs level until Batista won the rumble (even Benoit needed help beating HHH one on one).
I'm not saying all these guys should have beaten HHH, but one of RVD, Kane, or Booker T should have gone over HHH. Even a one month reign before dropping the title back to HHH would have made them a legit top guy. Instead, each man came out of their feuds looking worse than they did before it.
HHH said RVD was lazy and wasn't a top guy. HHH then went out and beat RVD.
The less said about the Katie Vick angle the better. Oh and apparently that wasn't enough as they had Hunter take his mask the next summer.
He said Booker's "people" don't win world titles. He then went on to beat Booker at WM and apparently proved this.
And all three looked worse in that Flair interfered in all of the matches, so the faces couldn't even band together against the duo of HHH/Flair. All three men were stuck in midcard hell for years following their feuds with HHH.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 21, 2017 16:46:47 GMT -5
The problem with Raw during that time was that HBK was the only guy portrayed as being able to go one on one with HHH (even Goldberg was portrayed as an idiot and when he got his win over HHH, it was portrayed as due to HHH being injured). After his one month run with the title, HBK didn't want it anymore. And with Goldberg gone after 1 year, nobody from 2002-2005 was portrayed on HHHs level until Batista won the rumble (even Benoit needed help beating HHH one on one). I'm not saying all these guys should have beaten HHH, but one of RVD, Kane, or Booker T should have gone over HHH. Even a one month reign before dropping the title back to HHH would have made them a legit top guy. Instead, each man came out of their feuds looking worse than they did before it. HHH said RVD was lazy and wasn't a top guy. HHH then went out and beat RVD. The less said about the Katie Vick angle the better. Oh and apparently that wasn't enough as they had Hunter take his mask the next summer. He said Booker's "people" don't win world titles. He then went on to beat Booker at WM and apparently proved this.
And all three looked worse in that Flair interfered in all of the matches, so the faces couldn't even band together against the duo of HHH/Flair. All three men were stuck in midcard hell for years following their feuds with HHH. You forgot the biggest insult of all. In the 2004 draft HHH was traded back to Raw in exchange for Booker and The Dudley's so basically he was portrayed as being worth a third of HHH. |
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 21, 2017 17:09:56 GMT -5
The problem with Raw during that time was that HBK was the only guy portrayed as being able to go one on one with HHH (even Goldberg was portrayed as an idiot and when he got his win over HHH, it was portrayed as due to HHH being injured). After his one month run with the title, HBK didn't want it anymore. And with Goldberg gone after 1 year, nobody from 2002-2005 was portrayed on HHHs level until Batista won the rumble (even Benoit needed help beating HHH one on one). I'm not saying all these guys should have beaten HHH, but one of RVD, Kane, or Booker T should have gone over HHH. Even a one month reign before dropping the title back to HHH would have made them a legit top guy. Instead, each man came out of their feuds looking worse than they did before it. HHH said RVD was lazy and wasn't a top guy. HHH then went out and beat RVD. The less said about the Katie Vick angle the better. Oh and apparently that wasn't enough as they had Hunter take his mask the next summer. He said Booker's "people" don't win world titles. He then went on to beat Booker at WM and apparently proved this.
And all three looked worse in that Flair interfered in all of the matches, so the faces couldn't even band together against the duo of HHH/Flair. All three men were stuck in midcard hell for years following their feuds with HHH. You forgot the biggest insult of all. In the 2004 draft HHH was traded back to Raw in exchange for Booker and The Dudley's so basically he was portrayed as being worth a third of HHH. Lol thanks for the reminder. The biggest slap to Booker. Sadly until he become "King Bookah," I think Vince always viewed him as a WCW guy even though he had been in the WWE for years by 2006. Booker had everything to be a top star in the WWE but sadly was always a jobber to the stars (similar to Christian and currently Dean and Bray). Moving to SD in 2004 seemed like a great move for him but sadly it did nothing but drop his stock further as he couldn't win a feud to save his life. His first feud with Taker led to one squash match where he looked totally inferior to the Deadman. Then he jobbed to a midcard Cena for months (in their best of 7 series the matches Booker won were all at house shows while Cena won all the televised matches). He then moved to a one off feud with JBL where he lost again. Come WM21 he couldn't even make the main show as he was delegated to the pre-show battle royal. |
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Post by The Brain on Jun 21, 2017 18:05:47 GMT -5
Booker not winning the belt at WM 19 was definitely a miscarriage of justice.
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Post by PJ on Jun 22, 2017 5:31:35 GMT -5
The problem with Raw during that time was that HBK was the only guy portrayed as being able to go one on one with HHH (even Goldberg was portrayed as an idiot and when he got his win over HHH, it was portrayed as due to HHH being injured). After his one month run with the title, HBK didn't want it anymore. And with Goldberg gone after 1 year, nobody from 2002-2005 was portrayed on HHHs level until Batista won the rumble (even Benoit needed help beating HHH one on one). I'm not saying all these guys should have beaten HHH, but one of RVD, Kane, or Booker T should have gone over HHH. Even a one month reign before dropping the title back to HHH would have made them a legit top guy. Instead, each man came out of their feuds looking worse than they did before it. HHH said RVD was lazy and wasn't a top guy. HHH then went out and beat RVD. The less said about the Katie Vick angle the better. Oh and apparently that wasn't enough as they had Hunter take his mask the next summer. He said Booker's "people" don't win world titles. He then went on to beat Booker at WM and apparently proved this.
And all three looked worse in that Flair interfered in all of the matches, so the faces couldn't even band together against the duo of HHH/Flair. All three men were stuck in midcard hell for years following their feuds with HHH. In the 2004 draft HHH was traded back to Raw in exchange for Booker and The Dudley's so basically he was portrayed as being worth a third of HHH. Really?! That to you was the biggest insult to Booker?! Not having the Rock ask "Who in the blue hell Are You?" When they first meet? Or although entertaining having Austin kick the cr@p out of him in the grocery store. Both of those were far more insulting than being traded on the draft. |
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Jun 22, 2017 5:55:24 GMT -5
You forgot the biggest insult of all. In the 2004 draft HHH was traded back to Raw in exchange for Booker and The Dudley's so basically he was portrayed as being worth a third of HHH. Really?! That to you was the biggest insult to Booker?! Not having the Rock ask "Who in the blue hell Are You?" When they first meet? Or although entertaining having Austin kick the cr@p out of him in the grocery store. Both of those were far more insulting than being traded on the draft. Lol that was simply The Rock being The Rock and he also said the exact same thing to a bald Kurt Angle. Also getting beat up in a grocery store was simply a heel getting his ass kicked by the face of the company so I wouldnt really class that as an insult. If your treated as only being worth a third of someone on your level then yes that is a huge slap in the face. |
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Post by PJ on Jun 22, 2017 6:26:49 GMT -5
Really?! That to you was the biggest insult to Booker?! Not having the Rock ask "Who in the blue hell Are You?" When they first meet? Or although entertaining having Austin kick the cr@p out of him in the grocery store. Both of those were far more insulting than being traded on the draft. Lol that was simply The Rock being The Rock and he also said the exact same thing to a bald Kurt Angle. Also getting beat up in a grocery store was simply a heel getting his ass kicked by the face of the company so I wouldnt really class that as an insult. If your treated as only being worth a third of someone on your level then yes that is a huge slap in the face. No that was Vince crapping on the WCW guys. He is the world champion and Vince had the Rock totally discredited him. And with Austin they made Booker look weak as he didn't do anything to Austin. Normally it is a quick beatdowns or the heels get some shots in. It is never 10 minutes of the heel just getting destroyed. It made Booker T (and the WCW roster) inferior to the WWE guys yet again. As for the trade I see it differently. I see it as he was the key piece for the trade...in that Bischoff really wanted Triple H and Heyman made him pay for it. |
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Post by Generic Theme on Jun 22, 2017 6:54:07 GMT -5
One thing about that match that always didn't sit well with me was that 22 seconds elapsed between the pedigree and Triple H making the cover for the win.
I can't remember any other scenario, especially in a big match where someone took the final pinfall that long after taking a finisher.
Perhaps they were trying to illustrate the amount of damage that Booker T had inflicted on Triple H by making him crawl to the cover after hitting the pedigree, but I always thought it made Booker T look weaker in the end.
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Post by cordless2016 on Jun 22, 2017 7:53:38 GMT -5
You forgot the biggest insult of all. In the 2004 draft HHH was traded back to Raw in exchange for Booker and The Dudley's so basically he was portrayed as being worth a third of HHH. Really?! That to you was the biggest insult to Booker?! Not having the Rock ask "Who in the blue hell Are You?" When they first meet? Or although entertaining having Austin kick the cr@p out of him in the grocery store. Both of those were far more insulting than being traded on the draft. Having to be packaged with two other guys to equal one HHH did more damage than the Rock using his normal catch phrase on Booker. The groceery store thing use to annoy me, but Booker did get some shots in on Austin and it was the culmination of Booker having screwed Austin. When Rock asked who he was, it was normal for Rocky to do that to everyone. I think what hurt him the most during that promo (that fans seem to forget) is that Rocky started listing off great WCW Champs, and then started saying that guys like Booker and DDP holding it was a joke. Every time Booker came out with the WCW Title, JR would also remind us that he wasn't on the level of someone like Hogan or Flair. That always bugged me, even as a kid. |
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Post by PJ on Jun 22, 2017 8:29:36 GMT -5
Really?! That to you was the biggest insult to Booker?! Not having the Rock ask "Who in the blue hell Are You?" When they first meet? Or although entertaining having Austin kick the cr@p out of him in the grocery store. Both of those were far more insulting than being traded on the draft. Having to be packaged with two other guys to equal one HHH did more damage than the Rock using his normal catch phrase on Booker. The groceery store thing use to annoy me, but Booker did get some shots in on Austin and it was the culmination of Booker having screwed Austin. When Rock asked who he was, it was normal for Rocky to do that to everyone. I think what hurt him the most during that promo (that fans seem to forget) is that Rocky started listing off great WCW Champs, and then started saying that guys like Booker and DDP holding it was a joke. Every time Booker came out with the WCW Title, JR would also remind us that he wasn't on the level of someone like Hogan or Flair. That always bugged me, even as a kid. I haven't seen the draft since it happened, but I saw it as Heyman taking advantage of Bischoff. From what I remember Bischoff was upset that Triple H was taken. Wasn't it Cena who picked it for Heyman and Bischoff forced Heyman to take it as a legitimate pick although Heyman didn't want to? Everyone knows Triple H is easily in my "Top 10, but the way I saw it (the trade) was Heyman (or was it Vince after Heyman quit after being drafted to RAW) holding Bischoff hostage to get Triple H back, by forcing him to give up Booker T and the Dudley's to get him back. Thus overpaying the value. |
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