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Post by Classic Collector: The Return on Jul 11, 2017 11:43:45 GMT -5
Unlike you I like facts - Vince never owned it. It's been abandoned since 2003 before they made the DVD. It's been public domain since then, but not anymore. I think it was more of an oversight on WWE's behalf not owning it. Same goes with say a Pro Wrestling Tees who could have gotten it if they looksd into it. But the fact you say it has no value on a post where someone wants to buy muchandise with the name on it kinda goes against everything your saying doesn't it? I never said it didn't have value. I said it doesn't have value to Vince. I highly doubt it was an oversight. If he made a t-shirt then his legal team would've looked into who owned the trademark and right then and there would've known it was up for grabs. He could've attempted to acquire it at any time over the last 14 years and didn't. Are you 14? WWE has publicly made blunders like this in the past. They let Rocks contract lapse without even talking to him about it - something that upset him and kept him away from WWE for years. They apply for trade marks all the time that someone already owns (Great Balls of Fire). They make mistakes.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jul 11, 2017 12:06:00 GMT -5
I never said it didn't have value. I said it doesn't have value to Vince. I highly doubt it was an oversight. If he made a t-shirt then his legal team would've looked into who owned the trademark and right then and there would've known it was up for grabs. He could've attempted to acquire it at any time over the last 14 years and didn't. Are you 14? WWE has publicly made blunders like this in the past. They let Rocks contract lapse without even talking to him about it - something that upset him and kept him away from WWE for years. They apply for trade marks all the time that someone already owns (Great Balls of Fire). They make mistakes. Man you seem angry. Can you not have a conversation without resorting to insults and name calling? I'm done here. Good day to you.
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Post by Mr Ezekiel Jackson If Ya Nasty on Jul 11, 2017 12:19:26 GMT -5
So much anger over a company deader than 95% percent of their original roster.
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bigjohnnybadd
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2016 12:35:53 GMT -5
Posts: 359
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Post by bigjohnnybadd on Jul 11, 2017 15:03:51 GMT -5
Never understood why they are willing to do it for the video games, as they have had all the WCW and ECW belts for several years now, but not for figures. I understand it would be two different companies and would be two different deals between 2K and Mattel, but if they are willing to work out licensing for the games, they can do so to make figure accessories. At least for WCW and ECW. It's not the belt designer who isn't willing to work with Mattel, it's Mattel not willing to pay the designer. It extra cost they are not willing to spend. THQ before and now 2K games have a budget that allows them to sign talent not under a WWE contract and acquire logos and belts not owned by WWE. Also, I would think that it's cheaper to license the belts for a digital representation in a video game vs acquiring it to mass produce a mini replica for action figures. It's hard to believe that when these belts were originally commissioned, and the creator obviously compensated for his work, that the original rights were still held by the creator and not owned by the company at that point. So really, they were just "leasing" the designs out and never actually owned their championships? Why wouldn't they make sure they owned their own belts? I'm not a lawyer, and I know copyright law and licensing can get confusing, but it makes no sense.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jul 11, 2017 15:22:15 GMT -5
It's not the belt designer who isn't willing to work with Mattel, it's Mattel not willing to pay the designer. It extra cost they are not willing to spend. THQ before and now 2K games have a budget that allows them to sign talent not under a WWE contract and acquire logos and belts not owned by WWE. Also, I would think that it's cheaper to license the belts for a digital representation in a video game vs acquiring it to mass produce a mini replica for action figures. It's hard to believe that when these belts were originally commissioned, and the creator obviously compensated for his work, that the original rights were still held by the creator and not owned by the company at that point. So really, they were just "leasing" the designs out and never actually owned their championships? Why wouldn't they make sure they owned their own belts? I'm not a lawyer, and I know copyright law and licensing can get confusing, but it makes no sense. Yeah I always found it weird too. Maybe when the companies folded the rights reverted back to the designer. It appears Mattel can make any belt held in the WWE/F regardless if its retired or not and they don't have to go through the designer to get permission. So WWE must own the the rights to the designs.
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jeffro2000
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 16, 2011 14:23:29 GMT -5
Posts: 1,858
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Post by jeffro2000 on Jul 11, 2017 19:38:01 GMT -5
Belts are props to Wrestling organizations. They didn't care enough to copyright a design back in the day just their logo.
Parks/Millican/Midwest own the designs to all the 80s WWF belts. They still do today. The 3 Hogan Belts, Winged Eagle, IC and Tag Titles plus most WCW, AWA/WCcW/UWF/etc
In the 90s, WWF came to them wanting to copyright the designs. Midwest said no so WWF took their business to J. Marshall. Those Attitude belts onward are WWE designs. Midwest wanted to retain the ability to sell those designs to other customers.
You can get an IC/Winged Eagle made today by Midwest minus the logo. Also the reason ECW and other independents have been able to use the same designs through the years. Same deal with most 80/90s WCW/Crockett/NWA belts (minus the Big Gold; isn't copyrighted)AWA/WCCW/Etc.
The confusion is this. There is no doubt Midwest designs own the artwork design of the Winged Eagle/IC etc. Mattel has made those belts, so why can't they do the WCW ones? It's assumed Midwest was compensated in some way for use of those designs probably by WWE. Just as they are compensated when Figs and now WWE make full size replicas of those belts.
People on here have asked Millican before; he says ball is in WWF/Mattel's court. Mattel says differently. I don't really know the answer. They seem to be a no go and I assume on WWEs end.
Obviously non of us are privy to what agreement WWE/Midwest/Mattel have in place for making the old WWF belts in figure/toy/replica form, but something is assumed to be there.
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bigjohnnybadd
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2016 12:35:53 GMT -5
Posts: 359
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Post by bigjohnnybadd on Jul 13, 2017 10:10:50 GMT -5
Belts are props to Wrestling organizations. They didn't care enough to copyright a design back in the day just their logo. Parks/Millican/Midwest own the designs to all the 80s WWF belts. They still do today. The 3 Hogan Belts, Winged Eagle, IC and Tag Titles plus most WCW, AWA/WCcW/UWF/etc In the 90s, WWF came to them wanting to copyright the designs. Midwest said no so WWF took their business to J. Marshall. Those Attitude belts onward are WWE designs. Midwest wanted to retain the ability to sell those designs to other customers. You can get an IC/Winged Eagle made today by Midwest minus the logo. Also the reason ECW and other independents have been able to use the same designs through the years. Same deal with most 80/90s WCW/Crockett/NWA belts (minus the Big Gold; isn't copyrighted)AWA/WCCW/Etc. The confusion is this. There is no doubt Midwest designs own the artwork design of the Winged Eagle/IC etc. Mattel has made those belts, so why can't they do the WCW ones? It's assumed Midwest was compensated in some way for use of those designs probably by WWE. Just as they are compensated when Figs and now WWE make full size replicas of those belts. People on here have asked Millican before; he says ball is in WWF/Mattel's court. Mattel says differently. I don't really know the answer. They seem to be a no go and I assume on WWEs end. Obviously non of us are privy to what agreement WWE/Midwest/Mattel have in place for making the old WWF belts in figure/toy/replica form, but something is assumed to be there. Great info here! So in reality, based on what you are saying, if a major wrestling company that isn't WWE, say TNA/GFW, decided they wanted to use the Winged Eagle, for example, as their world title belt, just with their own logo in place of WWE's, and were willing to shell out for the rights to the owner, without any consent from WWE, that they absolutely legally could? And WWE would be able to do nothing about it? That's crazy!
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on Jul 13, 2017 10:15:27 GMT -5
I'd love the ECW TV title and ECW Tag Team Titles. Maybe do a defining moments RVD with the ECW World, TV, and Tag Team Titles like they did with Steve Austin with the Winged Eagle, Big Eagle, and Smoking Skull.
Just a thought. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to do the TV and Tag Team Titles, they were, to my knowledge, made by J-Mar, just like the World Title. And clearly WWE still has a working relationship with J-Mar because he did many other WWE belts which Mattel has released.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jul 13, 2017 10:22:03 GMT -5
Belts are props to Wrestling organizations. They didn't care enough to copyright a design back in the day just their logo. Parks/Millican/Midwest own the designs to all the 80s WWF belts. They still do today. The 3 Hogan Belts, Winged Eagle, IC and Tag Titles plus most WCW, AWA/WCcW/UWF/etc In the 90s, WWF came to them wanting to copyright the designs. Midwest said no so WWF took their business to J. Marshall. Those Attitude belts onward are WWE designs. Midwest wanted to retain the ability to sell those designs to other customers. You can get an IC/Winged Eagle made today by Midwest minus the logo. Also the reason ECW and other independents have been able to use the same designs through the years. Same deal with most 80/90s WCW/Crockett/NWA belts (minus the Big Gold; isn't copyrighted)AWA/WCCW/Etc. The confusion is this. There is no doubt Midwest designs own the artwork design of the Winged Eagle/IC etc. Mattel has made those belts, so why can't they do the WCW ones? It's assumed Midwest was compensated in some way for use of those designs probably by WWE. Just as they are compensated when Figs and now WWE make full size replicas of those belts. People on here have asked Millican before; he says ball is in WWF/Mattel's court. Mattel says differently. I don't really know the answer. They seem to be a no go and I assume on WWEs end. Obviously non of us are privy to what agreement WWE/Midwest/Mattel have in place for making the old WWF belts in figure/toy/replica form, but something is assumed to be there. Great info here! So in reality, based on what you are saying, if a major wrestling company that isn't WWE, say TNA/GFW, decided they wanted to use the Winged Eagle, for example, as their world title belt, just with their own logo in place of WWE's, and were willing to shell out for the rights to the owner, without any consent from WWE, that they absolutely legally could? And WWE would be able to do nothing about it? That's crazy! Thats exactly what ECW did for their TV and FTW titles and used the IC design for their Tag.
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bigjohnnybadd
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 18, 2016 12:35:53 GMT -5
Posts: 359
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Post by bigjohnnybadd on Jul 13, 2017 10:32:31 GMT -5
Great info here! So in reality, based on what you are saying, if a major wrestling company that isn't WWE, say TNA/GFW, decided they wanted to use the Winged Eagle, for example, as their world title belt, just with their own logo in place of WWE's, and were willing to shell out for the rights to the owner, without any consent from WWE, that they absolutely legally could? And WWE would be able to do nothing about it? That's crazy! Thats exactly what ECW did for their TV and FTW titles and used the IC design for their Tag. Wow, guess I never realized it was the same exact design! They looked different enough with the different paint scheme and side plates. That's pretty cool. Again, how could WWE allow that to happen? They are so protective of everything... How could they not own their own belts?! It's really blowing my mind lol
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jeffro2000
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 16, 2011 14:23:29 GMT -5
Posts: 1,858
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Post by jeffro2000 on Jul 13, 2017 16:34:54 GMT -5
They just didn't think about it back in the day I guess. Rumor has it that when the Big Green belt was replaced (84) it was thrown in the trash.
When they did want to copyright those designs, R. Parks said no because he had a business of selling them.
As stated, ECW's belts were the same design. The Hogan 84/85 was basically the same design as the NWA TV title and others.
Also, when Cody/WWE debuted the new/old IC title, it was first made by J. Marshall. Midwest quickly sent a cease notice saying they owned that design. It was quickly replaced by one made by Midwest/Millican.
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