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Post by PJ on Oct 18, 2017 17:15:24 GMT -5
Not a myth at all. I don't care what he is doing on the card he is supposed to be entertaining the audience. They paid good money to be entertained. I don't care if the arena is sold out or there's only one person there. They are sports entertainers they are paid well to entertain people. You say it was SD booking because he had to work comedy with Elsworth. That changes nothing he was still being paid to entertain. Hell Sandow got stuck in the comedy roll and he excelled at it. And was one of the most entertaining parts of the show. Ambrose doesn't put the effort in. He goes half speed like he is just going through the motions. Any other job that would have gotten him fired a long time ago. Both Sting and Finn Balor were seriously injured in matches with Seth. Also Seth's title run had so much Authority and Kane bulls*** that it overshadowed him actually being champion. IIRC, he had quite the losing streak on TV going as well. Ahh, thank you. I knew there were others but couldn't think off the top of my head. But again, I don't feel either of those were Seth being too reckless, rather that the move just didn't land flush as it normally did eithbthe other guys who had taken it before. First Jim Cornette’s Wendy’s Order🍔 I didn't take it that way so there's no problem. Yes, Sting and Finn plus his own knee. And like I said accidents do happen even if you are careful. And while one can argue Sting's spinal cord had years of abuse to it from wresting. That said it doesn't help Seth's case that Sting, Balor and even his own knee injury were pretty much all the same type move. Sting's was a running powerbomb into the turnbuckle, Finn's a runny powerbomb into the barrier and his own knee he looked like he was trying to reverse Kane's move into a running powerbomb out of the corner. With Sting and Balor even if he did it perfectly he was still running blind to those spots while throwing his opponents where they should go. But honestly I don't see how he could know how close he was to the target spots as his face was buried into there stomachs. So just seeing how that move is performed leaves a lot to chance that the timing will be right and he doesn't release to to late or soon. And looking at both once could argue he released Finn to soon as he barely reached the barrier. And with the whiplash Sting suffered I think would have happened he had released Sting to close to the turnbuckle. And while his own knee buckled I wonder if trying to do it to someone as big as Kane was the cause of it. And having the authority, J&J as well as Kane helping him keep the title was exactly what made is title run perfect for the cowardly heel champion. He wasn't supposed to do it by himself. Having them all find ways to help him keep the title was what made it.
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Post by tylerbreezee on Oct 18, 2017 17:29:54 GMT -5
Oh man, rip to this thread soon
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Post by marino13 on Oct 18, 2017 17:33:01 GMT -5
IMO Ambrose was doing great as Champion till he went onto the Steve Austin podcast. I still believe he blindsided Dean and then made him look bad. It seemed like that was the beginning of the end for his time on top.
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 18, 2017 18:19:24 GMT -5
How does Roman main eventing three mainas have anything to do with being a successful main eventer? You've answered your own question before you even finished asking it there. Ambrose is the only member of the Shield that has failed to stay in the main event picture as a solo performer, hence having more to gain than the other two do from the reunion. You only quoted part of my post to twist it to your narrative Roman was in the main event of 3 WMs because of Vince. Poll the masses and they’d disagree. Roman has failed as the top face, and has failed as a main eventer despite chance after chance. Dean, despite no backing from the powers that be, has consistently remained over with the crowds. Just because Vince hasn’t backed him doesn’t mean he’s failed as a main eventer. He’s been the most over face in the WWE atleast three times since he went solo (fall of 2014 against Seth, spring of 2015 against the Authority, and going into WM32). Imagine where he’d be had he been allowed to go over in just one of those feuds when his popularity was at its peak. Ultimately this is all opinion, but just because Vince deams who is worthy of his main events and who isn’t doesn’t mean that’s final. Look what he did to Legends like Dusty, Harley and Vader.
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Post by Jim Cornette’s Wendy’s Order🍔 on Oct 18, 2017 18:23:22 GMT -5
Not a myth at all. I don't care what he is doing on the card he is supposed to be entertaining the audience. They paid good money to be entertained. I don't care if the arena is sold out or there's only one person there. They are sports entertainers they are paid well to entertain people. You say it was SD booking because he had to work comedy with Elsworth. That changes nothing he was still being paid to entertain. Hell Sandow got stuck in the comedy roll and he excelled at it. And was one of the most entertaining parts of the show. Ambrose doesn't put the effort in. He goes half speed like he is just going through the motions. Any other job that would have gotten him fired a long time ago. Ahh, thank you. I knew there were others but couldn't think off the top of my head. But again, I don't feel either of those were Seth being too reckless, rather that the move just didn't land flush as it normally did eithbthe other guys who had taken it before. First Jim Cornette’s Wendy’s Order🍔 I didn't take it that way so there's no problem. Yes, Sting and Finn plus his own knee. And like I said accidents do happen even if you are careful. And while one can argue Sting's spinal cord had years of abuse to it from wresting. That said it doesn't help Seth's case that Sting, Balor and even his own knee injury were pretty much all the same type move. Sting's was a running powerbomb into the turnbuckle, Finn's a runny powerbomb into the barrier and his own knee he looked like he was trying to reverse Kane's move into a running powerbomb out of the corner. With Sting and Balor even if he did it perfectly he was still running blind to those spots while throwing his opponents where they should go. But honestly I don't see how he could know how close he was to the target spots as his face was buried into there stomachs. So just seeing how that move is performed leaves a lot to chance that the timing will be right and he doesn't release to to late or soon. And looking at both once could argue he released Finn to soon as he barely reached the barrier. And with the whiplash Sting suffered I think would have happened he had released Sting to close to the turnbuckle. And while his own knee buckled I wonder if trying to do it to someone as big as Kane was the cause of it. And having the authority, J&J as well as Kane helping him keep the title was exactly what made is title run perfect for the cowardly heel champion. He wasn't supposed to do it by himself. Having them all find ways to help him keep the title was what made it. I certainly agree with all the points you made. The move in itself seems incredibly risky and like you said, Seth can't even see the target spot to toss at. I think stings could be attributed to hid age, but it's no coincidence that it was the same move as with balor. Since all of it has happened I can't recall him using the move as often as he once did, as it was once one of the signatures leading up to the curbstomp, which is now also not used. But i guess the point I was getting at all around was that seth is a safe worker, and i think the roster trusts him in the ring, however the injuries could be attributed to that move in general as it does put a lot of force on the person hitting the corner or whatever they are thrown into. And as Rollins and Jericho talked about, Cenas nose was just a freak accident, nothing where he or cena were at fault for, just mistiming on both ends. I think they stated that he and cena both agreed that it was due to when Seth jumped to deliver the knee and how far cena was leaning into the move (according to Jericho podcast that is something that Cena has been notorious for). But again, just something that happened, nothing against cena or Seth. Just a freak accident and mistiming
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 18, 2017 18:30:23 GMT -5
This argument about Ambrose being lazy is a myth that fans have made up without any proof. The way I see it is Ambrose has worked his ass off for 5 years and when The Shield broke up he was the break out star of the group. Reigns went for the title and Rollins became a cowardly heel but Ambrose built himself up and got over huge with the fans and became the number 1 merch seller. Ambrose has had problems but the main culprit was Smackdown. It's a show that can't properly book it's own roster and sadly Ambrose was a major casualty. The night after he won the title there was a Stone Cold vibe from him and Raw got high ratings so things were looking up. Then he went to Smackdown and was put in a feud with Ziggler and then the comedy crap with Styles and Ellsworth. After that he was demoted to the IC title and then the Mania pre show was the final nail. The facts are obvious. Smackdown ruined Ambrose. This 100%. Austin f***** Ambrose over with that stupid podcast, but booking killed him long before that. Dean was easily the most over face in 2014 while going after Seth. Despite being mega over, he lost every single match he had with Seth. Every one. That was 4 PPV matches and multiple tv matches. He then put over Bray at the next two PPVs before dropping to the midcard. Fast forward to the spring of 2015 and he reignites his feud with Seth and the Authority. This was after the failed Roman push at WM31. Dean built his momentum back and his “dusty-finish” win at EC 2015 created one of the loudest pops I’ve ever heard. Fans were begging for him to officially win the title at MITB but again he lost. He then dropped to Romans’ side kick for the next few month. Jump to the fall of 2015 where Seth gets hurt. Roman is still not over while Dean was still popular in the midcard. They put Roman and Dean in the finals and the fans made it clear that Dean was their guy. He then loses clean to Roman. At the RR 2016 he makes it to the final two which leads to another huge pop yet loses to HHH. Over the next three months, he loses clean to Roman, HHH and Brock on PPV before being dropped to the midcard. He eventually gets the WWE Title in the spring, but that was due to Roman getting busted. We then got the crap on SDL where Cena and AJ were the main focus. Booking has killed Deans momentum every single time he’s about to break out.
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Post by Codyverse: Tag Team Champion on Oct 18, 2017 20:06:27 GMT -5
I liked Dean the most during the initial Shield run. I soured on him and I didn't enjoy his title reign at all. I haven't enjoyed one of his singles matches since the match he lost the belt to Styles.
He definitely needs the Shield.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Oct 18, 2017 20:28:13 GMT -5
This argument about Ambrose being lazy is a myth that fans have made up without any proof. The way I see it is Ambrose has worked his ass off for 5 years and when The Shield broke up he was the break out star of the group. Reigns went for the title and Rollins became a cowardly heel but Ambrose built himself up and got over huge with the fans and became the number 1 merch seller. Ambrose has had problems but the main culprit was Smackdown. It's a show that can't properly book it's own roster and sadly Ambrose was a major casualty. The night after he won the title there was a Stone Cold vibe from him and Raw got high ratings so things were looking up. Then he went to Smackdown and was put in a feud with Ziggler and then the comedy crap with Styles and Ellsworth. After that he was demoted to the IC title and then the Mania pre show was the final nail. The facts are obvious. Smackdown ruined Ambrose. This 100%. Austin f***** Ambrose over with that stupid podcast, but booking killed him long before that. Dean was easily the most over face in 2014 while going after Seth. Despite being mega over, he lost every single match he had with Seth. Every one. That was 4 PPV matches and multiple tv matches. He then put over Bray at the next two PPVs before dropping to the midcard. Fast forward to the spring of 2015 and he reignites his feud with Seth and the Authority. This was after the failed Roman push at WM31. Dean built his momentum back and his “dusty-finish” win at EC 2015 created one of the loudest pops I’ve ever heard. Fans were begging for him to officially win the title at MITB but again he lost. He then dropped to Romans’ side kick for the next few month. Jump to the fall of 2015 where Seth gets hurt. Roman is still not over while Dean was still popular in the midcard. They put Roman and Dean in the finals and the fans made it clear that Dean was their guy. He then loses clean to Roman. At the RR 2016 he makes it to the final two which leads to another huge pop yet loses to HHH. Over the next three months, he loses clean to Roman, HHH and Brock on PPV before being dropped to the midcard. He eventually gets the WWE Title in the spring, but that was due to Roman getting busted. We then got the crap on SDL where Cena and AJ were the main focus. Booking has killed Deans momentum every single time he’s about to break out. Every point you have made completely contradicts the claims that he is lazy. If Ambrose was lazy and didn't put the effort in he would've fallen long ago but he keeps pushing his way back up again despite constantly getting knocked down. The crowd love Ambrose because his hard work made them fans. The WWE didn't tell them to cheer him like they have done with Reigns Ambrose's won their support all by himself.
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Post by IRS on Oct 18, 2017 20:29:19 GMT -5
This 100%. Austin f***** Ambrose over with that stupid podcast, but booking killed him long before that. Dean was easily the most over face in 2014 while going after Seth. Despite being mega over, he lost every single match he had with Seth. Every one. That was 4 PPV matches and multiple tv matches. He then put over Bray at the next two PPVs before dropping to the midcard. Fast forward to the spring of 2015 and he reignites his feud with Seth and the Authority. This was after the failed Roman push at WM31. Dean built his momentum back and his “dusty-finish” win at EC 2015 created one of the loudest pops I’ve ever heard. Fans were begging for him to officially win the title at MITB but again he lost. He then dropped to Romans’ side kick for the next few month. Jump to the fall of 2015 where Seth gets hurt. Roman is still not over while Dean was still popular in the midcard. They put Roman and Dean in the finals and the fans made it clear that Dean was their guy. He then loses clean to Roman. At the RR 2016 he makes it to the final two which leads to another huge pop yet loses to HHH. Over the next three months, he loses clean to Roman, HHH and Brock on PPV before being dropped to the midcard. He eventually gets the WWE Title in the spring, but that was due to Roman getting busted. We then got the crap on SDL where Cena and AJ were the main focus. Booking has killed Deans momentum every single time he’s about to break out. Every point you have made completely contradicts the claims that he is lazy. If Ambrose was lazy and didn't put the effort in he would've fallen long ago but he keeps pushing his way back up again despite constantly getting knocked down. The crowd love Ambrose because his hard work made them fans. The WWE didn't tell them to cheer him like they have done with Reigns Ambrose's won their support all by himself. ... that's exactly what he's saying.
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Post by PJ on Oct 18, 2017 21:54:26 GMT -5
IMO Ambrose was doing great as Champion till he went onto the Steve Austin podcast. I still believe he blindsided Dean and then made him look bad. It seemed like that was the beginning of the end for his time on top. Ambrose made himself look bad on that podcast. He seriously seemed like he was stoned on that podcast which would lead me to believe he was stoned 5 minutes prior in the ring. Austin warned him not to get complacent now that he was on top, but it turns out he was right to worry. Because as soon as he became champion he just stopped putting in the effort. So many of his matches since then you can see his effort isn't there. He is doing the same moves he was doing prior, but now he's doing them without any sense of urgency.
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Chief
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 21, 2008 15:36:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,849
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Post by Chief on Oct 19, 2017 10:15:18 GMT -5
His match with Dolph at Summerslam was just bad considering who was involved and the fact that it was a title match. The promos leading up to it were golden.
Thats when I soured on Ambrose.
To me, his matches are the weakest of the three.
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Oct 19, 2017 11:12:42 GMT -5
Holy crap, some of you write novels, anyway.
If anything The Shield is beneficial to both Ambrose and Rollin both of whom just floundered from drug out feud to drug out feud until the reformation.
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Chief
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 21, 2008 15:36:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,849
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Post by Chief on Oct 19, 2017 11:52:05 GMT -5
Rollins would do so much better on Smackdown.
I'd have zero problem swapping him for Bobby Roode or even Randy Orton (that would never happen).
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Post by cordless2016 on Oct 19, 2017 13:21:09 GMT -5
His match with Dolph at Summerslam was just bad considering who was involved and the fact that it was a title match. The promos leading up to it were golden. Thats when I soured on Ambrose. To me, his matches are the weakest of the three. Egh at first I blamed booking for the poor placement on the card (they barely got 10 minutes and had to follow AJ/Cena), but after Dolph failed to have any above average matches with Nakamura this year I started to put the blame more on him. The only match Dolph seemed to have delivered in during the past two years seems to be with Miz at No Mercy 2016. Every other “big” match he’s been apart of has been a letdown.
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Chief
Main Eventer
Joined on: Apr 21, 2008 15:36:44 GMT -5
Posts: 2,849
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Post by Chief on Oct 19, 2017 13:43:15 GMT -5
His match with Dolph at Summerslam was just bad considering who was involved and the fact that it was a title match. The promos leading up to it were golden. Thats when I soured on Ambrose. To me, his matches are the weakest of the three. Egh at first I blamed booking for the poor placement on the card (they barely got 10 minutes and had to follow AJ/Cena), but after Dolph failed to have any above average matches with Nakamura this year I started to put the blame more on him. The only match Dolph seemed to have delivered in during the past two years seems to be with Miz at No Mercy 2016. Every other “big” match he’s been apart of has been a letdown. Those Miz matches were REALLY good, much better than they should have been. I think it helped that they are buds in real life. You would think that with the amount of fantastic talent on the roster right now that we'd see killer matches each week or at the very least, each month. *shrug*
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