hoganvspiper
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 9, 2013 21:10:25 GMT -5
Posts: 822
|
Post by hoganvspiper on Jan 9, 2018 20:30:20 GMT -5
A few alleged Sgt Slaughter resin prototypes sold on ebay a handful of years ago by woodrowtoys I believe. Does anyone know who's collection they went to?
|
|
ozz
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2011 16:37:04 GMT -5
Posts: 1,394
|
Post by ozz on Jan 9, 2018 22:49:32 GMT -5
User "mesteve" may know
|
|
hoganvspiper
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 9, 2013 21:10:25 GMT -5
Posts: 822
|
Post by hoganvspiper on Jan 10, 2018 11:23:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip. I exchanged messages with mesteve a while back. He owned the unpainted bendable figure at one point, but I think he sold it. I don't think he knew the owners of the resin figures.
|
|
ToyeticToys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 4, 2015 12:10:03 GMT -5
Posts: 204
|
Post by ToyeticToys on Jan 10, 2018 13:53:57 GMT -5
I own an unpainted prototype.
|
|
hoganvspiper
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 9, 2013 21:10:25 GMT -5
Posts: 822
|
Post by hoganvspiper on Jan 10, 2018 15:37:07 GMT -5
I own an unpainted prototype. I recall seeing a picture of an unpainted copy that looked like it was molded to a base, or maybe there were connectors to the feet that tied them together. Is that the one?
|
|
kev85hasbro
Main Eventer
Joined on: Dec 10, 2011 14:08:47 GMT -5
Posts: 1,102
|
Post by kev85hasbro on Jan 10, 2018 15:41:44 GMT -5
Is that made by Hasbro?
|
|
ToyeticToys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 4, 2015 12:10:03 GMT -5
Posts: 204
|
Post by ToyeticToys on Jan 10, 2018 19:47:42 GMT -5
I own an unpainted prototype. I recall seeing a picture of an unpainted copy that looked like it was molded to a base, or maybe there were connectors to the feet that tied them together. Is that the one? The figure that I own was never molded to any type of base. It's solid resin, clean, and has no air bubbles; he fits in perfectly with the rest of the figure line. The LJN employee who sold the original prototypes passed away several years ago. I bought a lot of LJN catalogs, documents, accessories, and dead stock from them; everything at extremely reasonable prices. I never paid the amounts that they sold for on eBay. I talked with them a handful of times on the phone and they were super nice. Having said that and having talked with them, my gut says that they made duplicates of the original prototypes. I could be wrong -- I mean, the resin definitely feels and looks old -- but it was odd seeing several pieces float around. I have no doubt that this is an official LJN prototype; I just don't know if it's an original factory creation. Just like we saw with Galoobs, people were duplicating the unproduced figures.
|
|
hoganvspiper
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 9, 2013 21:10:25 GMT -5
Posts: 822
|
Post by hoganvspiper on Jan 11, 2018 13:39:32 GMT -5
I recall seeing a picture of an unpainted copy that looked like it was molded to a base, or maybe there were connectors to the feet that tied them together. Is that the one? The figure that I own was never molded to any type of base. It's solid resin, clean, and has no air bubbles; he fits in perfectly with the rest of the figure line. The LJN employee who sold the original prototypes passed away several years ago. I bought a lot of LJN catalogs, documents, accessories, and dead stock from them; everything at extremely reasonable prices. I never paid the amounts that they sold for on eBay. I talked with them a handful of times on the phone and they were super nice. Having said that and having talked with them, my gut says that they made duplicates of the original prototypes. I could be wrong -- I mean, the resin definitely feels and looks old -- but it was odd seeing several pieces float around. I have no doubt that this is an official LJN prototype; I just don't know if it's an original factory creation. Just like we saw with Galoobs, people were duplicating the unproduced figures. Very insightful information - thank you. I've seen pictures of three other resin Sgt. Slaughter figures, so including yours, that would make four. There's also the large size bendie figure that mesteve used to own, so if I count that one, I'm aware of five. I've seen pictures of the mold as well, so I suppose it would be possible for someone to make copies. Do you know if the LJN employee that sold you the prototype had access to the mold? I'm probably more curious with the other materials and information that was shared. For example, was any info passed along regarding some of the other early prototypes that were unreleased such as Tito Santana? Or maybe characters that were never released? Thanks again for sharing. It sounds like you made contact with someone at a very good place and time.
|
|
ToyeticToys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 4, 2015 12:10:03 GMT -5
Posts: 204
|
Post by ToyeticToys on Jan 11, 2018 23:11:17 GMT -5
The figure that I own was never molded to any type of base. It's solid resin, clean, and has no air bubbles; he fits in perfectly with the rest of the figure line. The LJN employee who sold the original prototypes passed away several years ago. I bought a lot of LJN catalogs, documents, accessories, and dead stock from them; everything at extremely reasonable prices. I never paid the amounts that they sold for on eBay. I talked with them a handful of times on the phone and they were super nice. Having said that and having talked with them, my gut says that they made duplicates of the original prototypes. I could be wrong -- I mean, the resin definitely feels and looks old -- but it was odd seeing several pieces float around. I have no doubt that this is an official LJN prototype; I just don't know if it's an original factory creation. Just like we saw with Galoobs, people were duplicating the unproduced figures. Very insightful information - thank you. I've seen pictures of three other resin Sgt. Slaughter figures, so including yours, that would make four. There's also the large size bendie figure that mesteve used to own, so if I count that one, I'm aware of five. I've seen pictures of the mold as well, so I suppose it would be possible for someone to make copies. Do you know if the LJN employee that sold you the prototype had access to the mold? I'm probably more curious with the other materials and information that was shared. For example, was any info passed along regarding some of the other early prototypes that were unreleased such as Tito Santana? Or maybe characters that were never released? Thanks again for sharing. It sounds like you made contact with someone at a very good place and time. Mary worked in the Consumer Care Dept. for LJN. She had access to all of their toy lines because she would send out replacement parts etc. --- I purchased a couple of bags full of original LJN accessories, so I believe her story 100%. She did a lot of interviews with toy websites at the time. Now, the part that no one ever mentions is that her brother worked as a protoype model maker for LJN in 1984. He was not the sculptor, but he did mold the prototypes. So, while I don't believe she would have had access to the molds, he definitely would. So, it's very probable that he either had the molds and created duplicates or had extra castings -- whether they were additional samples or rejects. At the time, Slaughter wasn't the only prototype they were selling. They had all of the original 5 as well as the Hogan 18" doll. I was hesitant to purchase any of the other prototype figures because they all appeared to look exactly like the retail versions minus the stamp. Since I wasn't sure if what I was purchasing were copies or not, I decided to only pull the trigger on the Slaughter. From phone conversations, they didn't know much about the WWF line; for instance, slaughter was grouped with the other 5. No mention of him being unproduced and his name was spelt wrong. They knew a lot about some of the other LJN lines, but not too much about WWF. And again, the brother was only there in '84. As far as the documents, I have some early informational sheets about the WWF line. The letter is an introduction for retailers about the "Superstars of Todays Wrestling". Also included were some wrestler promo photographs; the promo photo of Hogan must've been what they based the figure off of. There was also a retailer price list along with other LJN toy lines. Slaughter is mentioned with the original 5 figures. Other than that, there is nothing new about the documents. So, those other LJN mysteries are still mysteries unfortunately.
|
|
hoganvspiper
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 9, 2013 21:10:25 GMT -5
Posts: 822
|
Post by hoganvspiper on Jan 14, 2018 18:17:09 GMT -5
ToyeticToys thanks again for the info. I think the fact you have documentation to prove that Sgt. Slaughter was planned is remarkable. I've seen some question whether the figure was actually planned. Do you by chance have lists that LJN used to provide that foretold when figures were scheduled to be released beyond series 1?
|
|
ToyeticToys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 4, 2015 12:10:03 GMT -5
Posts: 204
|
Post by ToyeticToys on Jan 15, 2018 20:57:35 GMT -5
ToyeticToys thanks again for the info. I think the fact you have documentation to prove that Sgt. Slaughter was planned is remarkable. I've seen some question whether the figure was actually planned. Do you by chance have lists that LJN used to provide that foretold when figures were scheduled to be released beyond series 1? No problem. I've been meaning to make a post with this info for awhile, but just haven't unpacked all of my stuff yet. I recently moved back to NY from LA. I'll do that later this week and post some good comparison pics with the GIJOE Slaughter. All the documents I received are from 1984 -- so, there's no information beyond that first series. The sheet attached to Hogan's picture said something like "in time for Christmas" -- but only mentioned the six. The other figures that were featured on the 8 and 13-cardbacks for series 1 weren't mentioned at all. I'll dig out that stuff this week and post it for you and others that might find it interesting.
|
|
ozz
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2011 16:37:04 GMT -5
Posts: 1,394
|
Post by ozz on Jan 15, 2018 21:06:00 GMT -5
Awesome story and info. This is the stuff I'd always wished I'd hunted out back in the day, as LJNs were always my preferred line.
|
|
ToyeticToys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 4, 2015 12:10:03 GMT -5
Posts: 204
|
Post by ToyeticToys on Jan 18, 2018 23:52:19 GMT -5
Slaughter's been living in a box for the past few months, so it was cool to rescue him for some photos. He's a bit larger than the standard size LJNs. I should have taken a photo of him next to Sheik; the slight size difference would've been more visible. Other people with resin prototypes have mentioned that their figures are also larger than the released figures; I think this is because when they're molded in rubber they shrink...but I could be completely wrong. Either way, he blends in perfectly with the rest of the line. Sorry about the photo sizes; they uploaded a bit smaller than the size I previewed them at. The press document that came with the Hogan photo reads: The press release doesn't have a date, but since all of my documents are from 1984 --- I think it's safe to say it's from '84. It looks like LJN wanted to create 3 good guys and 3 bad guys. Depending on when they started production of the figures, I'm pretty sure Sgt. Slaughter was still a heel. And since Andre the Giant still had his Afro, he would've been a babyface. The other documents don't mention the WWF figure line at all, except for it being listed on a Royalty Agreements page. According to Slaughter, he left the WWF because Hasbro wanted him to be in the cartoon series for GIJOE. When Slaughter approached Vince about having this great cross promotion between the two companies -- Vince said it was a great idea, but they couldn't do it because they already gave the rights to LJN and it'd be a conflict of interest. Slaughter decided he "can always be a wrestler, but can't always be the first living GIJOE." Vince tried to stop Slaughter from leaving and they ended up in a couple of "friendly legal discussions" with attorneys. During those meetings, Vince found out in a "not-so-friendly" way that he didn't own the rights to Sgt. Slaughter --- Slaughter had his name trademarked in 1976. Slaughter said Vince blew a gasket because he'd already given the orders for the toy company to make Sgt. Slaughter memorabilia. Slaughter then says --Vince legally didn't have the right to do that and long story short he left the company. Always thought it was an interesting bit of figure history. The hasbro version of Slaughter didn't come out until I think 1988.
|
|
|
Post by ~*Young $ Money*~ on Jan 19, 2018 0:48:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the write up and info! I love reading about old stuff like this. It’s cool to find someone who worked for these companies and find some info since there was not many other way to back then.
|
|
hoganvspiper
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 9, 2013 21:10:25 GMT -5
Posts: 822
|
Post by hoganvspiper on Jan 22, 2018 22:33:50 GMT -5
Slaughter's been living in a box for the past few months, so it was cool to rescue him for some photos. He's a bit larger than the standard size LJNs. I should have taken a photo of him next to Sheik; the slight size difference would've been more visible. Other people with resin prototypes have mentioned that their figures are also larger than the released figures; I think this is because when they're molded in rubber they shrink...but I could be completely wrong. Either way, he blends in perfectly with the rest of the line. Sorry about the photo sizes; they uploaded a bit smaller than the size I previewed them at. The press document that came with the Hogan photo reads: The press release doesn't have a date, but since all of my documents are from 1984 --- I think it's safe to say it's from '84. It looks like LJN wanted to create 3 good guys and 3 bad guys. Depending on when they started production of the figures, I'm pretty sure Sgt. Slaughter was still a heel. And since Andre the Giant still had his Afro, he would've been a babyface. The other documents don't mention the WWF figure line at all, except for it being listed on a Royalty Agreements page. According to Slaughter, he left the WWF because Hasbro wanted him to be in the cartoon series for GIJOE. When Slaughter approached Vince about having this great cross promotion between the two companies -- Vince said it was a great idea, but they couldn't do it because they already gave the rights to LJN and it'd be a conflict of interest. Slaughter decided he "can always be a wrestler, but can't always be the first living GIJOE." Vince tried to stop Slaughter from leaving and they ended up in a couple of "friendly legal discussions" with attorneys. During those meetings, Vince found out in a "not-so-friendly" way that he didn't own the rights to Sgt. Slaughter --- Slaughter had his name trademarked in 1976. Slaughter said Vince blew a gasket because he'd already given the orders for the toy company to make Sgt. Slaughter memorabilia. Slaughter then says --Vince legally didn't have the right to do that and long story short he left the company. Always thought it was an interesting bit of figure history. The hasbro version of Slaughter didn't come out until I think 1988. I can't see the pictures
|
|
ToyeticToys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 4, 2015 12:10:03 GMT -5
Posts: 204
|
Post by ToyeticToys on Jan 22, 2018 23:23:47 GMT -5
|
|
hoganvspiper
Superstar
Joined on: Jun 9, 2013 21:10:25 GMT -5
Posts: 822
|
Post by hoganvspiper on Jan 24, 2018 19:31:14 GMT -5
ToyeticToys Thanks for posting. I've seen one version with sunglasses. Do you think those are legit or someone's later creation?
|
|
ToyeticToys
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Sept 4, 2015 12:10:03 GMT -5
Posts: 204
|
Post by ToyeticToys on Jan 24, 2018 20:15:13 GMT -5
ToyeticToys Thanks for posting. I've seen one version with sunglasses. Do you think those are legit or someone's later creation? No problem. I have the glasses too, but I don't display the glasses on my Slaughter figure because I think he ends up looking more like the Terminator When I asked about the glasses, I was told that LJN was working on the Michael Jackson doll at the same time. . . So, instead of sculpting new glasses -- they just modified a pair of MJ doll glasses. I'm not sure if they were ever meant to be permanent with the Slaughter figure or if they were just temporary placeholders. Always thought that was kind of a funny story. To me the glasses look ridiculous haha
|
|
ozz
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2011 16:37:04 GMT -5
Posts: 1,394
|
Post by ozz on Jan 24, 2018 21:09:48 GMT -5
That's great!
|
|
jasonmosher16
Jobber
Joined on: May 22, 2018 13:21:46 GMT -5
Posts: 2
|
Post by jasonmosher16 on May 22, 2018 13:39:56 GMT -5
Hey guys,
I currently own both the unpainted and painted resin prototypes of the unreleased LJN Sergeant Slaughter figure.
I am definitely looking to gather more information about the figures as well. Unfortunately, Mary Butcher has passed away. There must be other former LJN employees out there who must be able to provide more information about this rare (and essentially unverifiable) figure.
|
|