Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2018 18:42:08 GMT -5
There's no such thing as a selfless champion. BUT, I don't think it's fair to necessarily call Austin or especially Bret selfish. Think of how many guys did Bret elevated as champion, or just in general. Hakushi? Jean Pierre? 1-2-3 Kid? Owen? Dozens more, I'm sure. Bret legitimised Austin himself. He never had to do that -- Hogan for example is a guy who could put someone else over, but not really put them over. Even Flair did a lot to build up other guys. Hardly selfless, but the guy went out of his way for Sting, Kerry and tons of other guys throughout his career. You can be a main event player, and look out for yourself without constantly holding other guys back. Bret didn't elevate Hakushi or Jean Pierre. Hakushi put Bret over and then ended up becoming a face and tagging with Barry Horowitz in feuds with Skip and Rad Radford. Jean Pierre stole Bret's jacket and then put Bret over on a PPV. As for Austin, I remember hearing stories of him not wanting to put Triple H over, definitely the Jeff Jarrett one is true, Austin didn't even want to work a program with him. Bret made Hakushi look like a million bucks. Not his fault that no one else really let Hakushi shine after their program. As far as I'm aware with the Austin/Jarrett thing, Austin chose to work with HHH, after nixing programs with Jarrett and Billy Gunn. I didn't hear that he refused to put HHH over though
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Sandman
Mid-Carder
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Post by Sandman on Feb 23, 2018 4:21:40 GMT -5
Bret didn't elevate Hakushi or Jean Pierre. Hakushi put Bret over and then ended up becoming a face and tagging with Barry Horowitz in feuds with Skip and Rad Radford. Jean Pierre stole Bret's jacket and then put Bret over on a PPV. As for Austin, I remember hearing stories of him not wanting to put Triple H over, definitely the Jeff Jarrett one is true, Austin didn't even want to work a program with him. Bret made Hakushi look like a million bucks. Not his fault that no one else really let Hakushi shine after their program. As far as I'm aware with the Austin/Jarrett thing, Austin chose to work with HHH, after nixing programs with Jarrett and Billy Gunn. I didn't hear that he refused to put HHH over thoughFrom what I've heard Austin refused to lose to Triple H at Summerslam 99 when Trips was really starting to take off as the lead Heel in the company, so instead he lost to Mankind in the triple threat main event only for Trip's to beat Foley on the next night of Raw & become WWF Champ that way.. What about my boys London & Kendrick?, you forgot to list them on that long list of burials. On an episode of Raw, Triple H was taking a right pounding by a group of heels in 2007/8?.. only for Paul & Brian to rush the ring & make the save, high fives a plenty & wanting to celebrate the save with Hunter, he just straight up Pedigreed the two for no reason, all three were faces aswell so in WWE logic it kind of made no sense maybe it was just Trips being a dick. Oh those writers, am I right? <;'}
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Post by marino13 on Feb 23, 2018 8:27:15 GMT -5
Bret made Hakushi look like a million bucks. Not his fault that no one else really let Hakushi shine after their program. As far as I'm aware with the Austin/Jarrett thing, Austin chose to work with HHH, after nixing programs with Jarrett and Billy Gunn. I didn't hear that he refused to put HHH over thoughFrom what I've heard Austin refused to lose to Triple H at Summerslam 99 when Trips was really starting to take off as the lead Heel in the company, so instead he lost to Mankind in the triple threat main event only for Trip's to beat Foley on the next night of Raw & become WWF Champ that way.. What about my boys London & Kendrick?, you forgot to list them on that long list of burials. On an episode of Raw, Triple H was taking a right pounding by a group of heels in 2007/8?.. only for Paul & Brian to rush the ring & make the save, high fives a plenty & wanting to celebrate the save with Hunter, he just straight up Pedigreed the two for no reason, all three were faces aswell so in WWE logic it kind of made no sense maybe it was just Trips being a dick. Oh those writers, am I right? <;'} Randy Orton did the EXACT same thing to the Usos on SD once. They saved him from a beat down only to receive two RKO’s in return. But nobody ever complained about that. But because it’s Triple H, the sky is falling. Besides I don’t see how hitting one move on someone is a burial. Did Austin bury the whole company when he dished out 20 Stunners in a night while everyone stood there waiting for their turn?
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Post by k5 on Feb 23, 2018 15:17:17 GMT -5
Michaels hinted at Austin’s reluctance to job for HHH on their old internet show, Live Wire. Pretty rich coming from Michaels, who had attempted to refuse to job to Austin at WM14.
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Post by JokerFC on Feb 23, 2018 19:59:05 GMT -5
The thing about Austin refusing to job to HHH at SSlam 99 is nonsense. Many have said Austin backed HHH to be the next guy over Jarrett(who he did despise) & Gunn. Vince wanted to milk their programme by having Austin claim HHH never beat him. Also don't forget Austin wasn't that much of a factor here.....they knew he was headed for surgery from the day after Fully Loaded 99. Also? HHH won his feud with Austin @ NWO 2001 after running him over........see where I'm going?
Now onto HHH vs Steiner.....knowing what they knew about Steiner's condition? Patterson & others suggested a short wild brawl that Evolution would have to rescue HHH from. This was nixed in favour of the snorefest that we got. Also? In no way, shape, fashion or form should a struggling overmuscled HHH & crippled Steiner have been allocated that amount of time.......NO WAY. This entire scenario has Trippers ego all over it in my book.
Of course it looks even worse because of Angle vs Benoit following it......
just my twopence......
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raz2005uk
Main Eventer
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Post by raz2005uk on Feb 23, 2018 20:17:56 GMT -5
The thing about Austin refusing to job to HHH at SSlam 99 is nonsense. Many have said Austin backed HHH to be the next guy over Jarrett(who he did despise) & Gunn. Vince wanted to milk their programme by having Austin claim HHH never beat him. Also don't forget Austin wasn't that much of a factor here.....they knew he was headed for surgery from the day after Fully Loaded 99. Also? HHH won his feud with Austin @ NWO 2001 after running him over........see where I'm going? Now onto HHH vs Steiner.....knowing what they knew about Steiner's condition? Patterson & others suggested a short wild brawl that Evolution would have to rescue HHH from. This was nixed in favour of the snorefest that we got. Also? In no way, shape, fashion or form should a struggling overmuscled HHH & crippled Steiner have followed Angle vs Benoit.......NO WAY. This entire scenario has Trippers ego all over it in my book. just my twopence...... Amen brotha!
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TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Mar 1, 2018 2:50:58 GMT -5
The best kept secret in wrestling is that Triple H is a poor worker, thus the insecurity.
How many mediocre or bad PPV matches did he have 2002-06? It was horrific. He has probably had more stinkers than anybody else close to his PPV count.
The guy is fundamentally sound, has excellent psychology, but he's just dead in the bed. 2000 he peaked no doubt about it. His best matches were gimmick matches, besides the matches with Bryan and Benoit. He even stunk it up with Michaels, how do you do that? You have to work hard to have a bad match with that guy. HIAC 2004 was garbage, and it was his slow boring ass to blame.
I like the guy more than some other people out there, but he's nowhere near my top 10 or even 20. Too many poor matches on his resume.
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Post by JokerFC on Mar 1, 2018 7:19:02 GMT -5
I would have to disagree on HHH being a poor worker or "the other guy" in all those great matches he had in fairness. BUT......He was NOT the same worker when he returned from the quad tear in 2002. He was overmuscled and plodded routinely in the squared circle IMHO. I also thought his conditioning seemed to be poor.
Best example of this is his work with Jericho pre & post tear. Pre tear? absolutely fantastic encounters....post tear(ego trip outta control writing aside) awful. Jericho had to slow his step for the new Tripper...and good grief it didn't work folks.
Bottom line is HHH was less versatile IMO than some of the other top guys. He needed a certain type of opponent(difficult to pin down) and often failed to deliver in big programmes. His multiple programmes with Orton spring to mind.....Jesus they had ZERO chemistry whatsoever.
But I would never classify him as a poor worker....
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TheBadGuyChico
POSSIBLE BAD TRADER
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Post by TheBadGuyChico on Mar 1, 2018 22:28:59 GMT -5
I would have to disagree on HHH being a poor worker or "the other guy" in all those great matches he had in fairness. BUT......He was NOT the same worker when he returned from the quad tear in 2002. He was overmuscled and plodded routinely in the squared circle IMHO. I also thought his conditioning seemed to be poor. Best example of this is his work with Jericho pre & post tear. Pre tear? absolutely fantastic encounters....post tear(ego trip outta control writing aside) awful. Jericho had to slow his step for the new Tripper...and good grief it didn't work folks. Bottom line is HHH was less versatile IMO than some of the other top guys. He needed a certain type of opponent(difficult to pin down) and often failed to deliver in big programmes. His multiple programmes with Orton spring to mind.....Jesus they had ZERO chemistry whatsoever. But I would never classify him as a poor worker.... It's just the amount of big PPV stinkers on his resume. His 03-05 world title reigns produced some serious clunkers over the calendar years. His later stuff wasn't much better unless he has the right dance partner. I liked him and Jeff Hardy, him and the Undertaker outside of KOTR 02 was always terrific, DX tags were always good for him. I don't have much else outside of that great Daniel Bryan match. Poor worker sounds harsh, he was so,much like Harley Race. Terrific brawler, believable tough guy, fundamentals and timing off the charts, but just not the modern day definition of a great worker. If HHH was supposed to be Ric Flair 2.0 I don't see it, his style was much more 70s Harley Race.
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Post by JokerFC on Mar 2, 2018 5:29:34 GMT -5
I would have to disagree on HHH being a poor worker or "the other guy" in all those great matches he had in fairness. BUT......He was NOT the same worker when he returned from the quad tear in 2002. He was overmuscled and plodded routinely in the squared circle IMHO. I also thought his conditioning seemed to be poor. Best example of this is his work with Jericho pre & post tear. Pre tear? absolutely fantastic encounters....post tear(ego trip outta control writing aside) awful. Jericho had to slow his step for the new Tripper...and good grief it didn't work folks. Bottom line is HHH was less versatile IMO than some of the other top guys. He needed a certain type of opponent(difficult to pin down) and often failed to deliver in big programmes. His multiple programmes with Orton spring to mind.....Jesus they had ZERO chemistry whatsoever. But I would never classify him as a poor worker.... It's just the amount of big PPV stinkers on his resume. His 03-05 world title reigns produced some serious clunkers over the calendar years. His later stuff wasn't much better unless he has the right dance partner. I liked him and Jeff Hardy, him and the Undertaker outside of KOTR 02 was always terrific, DX tags were always good for him. I don't have much else outside of that great Daniel Bryan match. Poor worker sounds harsh, he was so,much like Harley Race. Terrific brawler, believable tough guy, fundamentals and timing off the charts, but just not the modern day definition of a great worker. If HHH was supposed to be Ric Flair 2.0 I don't see it, his style was much more 70s Harley Race. Hmmm. Fair points...cant argue too much there in honesty.
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Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD
Main Eventer
I need a monster condom for my magnum sized dong.
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Post by Dr. Mantis Toboggan MD on Mar 6, 2018 1:52:42 GMT -5
There's no such thing as a selfless champion. BUT, I don't think it's fair to necessarily call Austin or especially Bret selfish. Think of how many guys did Bret elevated as champion, or just in general. Hakushi? Jean Pierre? 1-2-3 Kid? Owen? Dozens more, I'm sure. Bret legitimised Austin himself. He never had to do that -- Hogan for example is a guy who could put someone else over, but not really put them over. Even Flair did a lot to build up other guys. Hardly selfless, but the guy went out of his way for Sting, Kerry and tons of other guys throughout his career. You can be a main event player, and look out for yourself without constantly holding other guys back. Bret didn't elevate Hakushi or Jean Pierre. Hakushi put Bret over and then ended up becoming a face and tagging with Barry Horowitz in feuds with Skip and Rad Radford. Jean Pierre stole Bret's jacket and then put Bret over on a PPV. As for Austin, I remember hearing stories of him not wanting to put Triple H over, definitely the Jeff Jarrett one is true, Austin didn't even want to work a program with him. Austin personally disliked Jarrett and was treated like sh*t in Memphis while Jeff was handed everything by his father. And a feud with Jarrett wouldn't have made sense as Austin was just off of a bloody feud with Taker. Austin did not want to put Triple H over at SummerSlam 1999 because he felt Triple H was not over enough yet, so he dropped it to Mankind in a Triple Threat and Triple H won it off Mankind the next night. Austin eventually lost to Triple H one on one with accidental interference from the Rock. Austin had to get neck surgery, so they did the storyline where he was run over. Triple H got himself a lot more over in 2000 with his feuds with Foley, Rock, and Angle. Upon returning in late 2000, the feud with Austin was rekindled within a month as Triple H reveals that he was the one that hired Rikishi to run Austin over. They fought to a no contest at Survivor Series, Austin drops a car with Triple H in it off a fork lift. Triple H inadvertently cost both himself and Austin the championship at Armageddon when he stops Austin from pinning Rock and takes a Stunner, while Angle snuck away with the victory. Austin costs Triple H a WWE title match with Angle and Triple H nearly costs Austin the Rumble. A match between the two was announced for No Way Out, with the stipulation that if either man attacked the other, that both would receive repercussions (Austin would lose his shot at WrestleMania and Triple H would have been suspended for 6 months). The match is determined to be a 3 Stages of Hell match. Triple H wins 2-1 against Austin without the help of anyone else mind you, this PPV before WrestleMania. TL;DR Austin didn't want to put Triple H over yet in 1999, he eventually does, but it isn't clean. Austin puts over Triple H in 2001 right before (arguably) the biggest match of his career.
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hbkfan
Superstar
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Post by hbkfan on Mar 25, 2018 21:31:08 GMT -5
Triple H... if the saying Survival of the Fittest is true, than he is THE ULTIMATE SURVIVOR As much as hate hsi gifted title belt runs... He is by far.... the single greatest HEEL ever in the history of villains everrrr... Even better than Flair, because he feuded with Flair as the heel, in fact he feuded with EVERYONE all the top faces ever! SCSA The Rock Mankind Y2J HBK Undertaker Kane Ric Flair Hulk Hogan Booker T Goldberg Cena Punk etc etc etc etc All of them lining up to work with him... You forgot to mentioned Bret Hart. Because he never feud with Bret. Bret is better than most of those in that list, so he is missing.
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Papi Joker
Main Eventer
INTERNATIONAL COLLECTORS LIVES MATTER
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Post by Papi Joker on Mar 26, 2018 0:42:11 GMT -5
well they did have a little feud nothing serious but.
Trips worked nearly everyone... except DDP and Macho Man!?
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Post by cordless2016 on Mar 31, 2018 7:50:24 GMT -5
- The Steiner/HHH feud was on the WWE. Steiner had drop foot, while HHH had deep thigh brusies. Both of these hindered them to the point they could barley walk. The smart thing to have done would have been to book them in quick 10 minute street fights, but instead they were booked in 20 minute singles matches.
- Kane, RVD and Booker were all buried at the time. Again, this is on the WWE as much as HHH, but the reason why I feel this is because each man came out of their feuds way worse than going into them. A challenger can loose to the champ, but the idea is that they remain credible, or even raise their credibility in defeat. Nobody can honestly say that these three guys looked better coming out of their feuds with HHH. They all remained stuck in the midcard for years before finally getting world title runs. HHH could have survived those feuds with the world title in tack like he did, but each challenger could and should have been booked far differently.
- Golderg SHOULD have won at SS. The fans wanted it. HHH being injured was even more reason to get the title off of him and save the big one on one show down for when he was healthy.
- The Summer of Punk is overrated by many fans. It was ruined when he came back two weeks later after claiming to leave forever. The WWE had a hard on for ADR at the time as well, which meant he was given the WWE Title for much of that timeframe. HHH beating Punk was just the icing on the cake of bad booking IMO.
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Post by aggressiveperfectpoor on Apr 4, 2018 17:11:02 GMT -5
I also want to point out that Triple H didn't sleep his way to the top. When he got there around late '99-early '01 he wasn't dating Stephanie. He was leaps and bounds the best heel in the industry and a perfect foil to Austin, Foley, and a white hot Rock.
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Post by cordless2016 on Apr 15, 2018 16:24:16 GMT -5
I also want to point out that Triple H didn't sleep his way to the top. When he got there around late '99-early '01 he wasn't dating Stephanie. He was leaps and bounds the best heel in the industry and a perfect foil to Austin, Foley, and a white hot Rock. Nobody with common sense is saying he slept his way to the top. That would be a lie. He was one of the best in the world from ‘99-01. The arguement is that he became the almighty, god-destroyer, ruler of the wrestling universe a** after getting with Steph.
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ClassicFan2
Main Eventer
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Apr 15, 2018 20:01:58 GMT -5
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Papi Joker
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INTERNATIONAL COLLECTORS LIVES MATTER
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Post by Papi Joker on Apr 15, 2018 21:22:12 GMT -5
CAN'T WAIT FOR HIS NEXT ELITE THOUGH!!!!! (some people say)
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ClassicFan2
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Post by ClassicFan2 on Apr 16, 2018 14:41:25 GMT -5
the look on her face is cause that big ol' HHH nose had no where else to go
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