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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on May 31, 2018 13:09:44 GMT -5
This has nothing really to do with the Screwjob, per-say, it really has to do with the financial implications of the deal.
So the cliffnotes version is that in 1996 the WWF signed Bret Hart to a 20-Year contract....I know, right, lol. WWF was doing poorly financially in 1997 and didn't want to honor the deal, Vince felt that Bret's value was going down, and Vince told Bret to go work out a deal with WCW.
Bret ends up landing a 3-year deal for $2.5 million dollars a year, (1 million more than he was making per year in WWF).
My question is, and really nobody here would know so this is really just a rhetorical question unless Bret or Vince have or plan to address this publicly....If Bret Hart was so willing to allow WWF to break the contract and was so willing to take a shorter term deal with WCW....why then could Bret Hart and the WWF negotiate a shorter term contract?
I get that it seems like Vince didn't want to pay Bret $1.5 million per year for 20 years....but why mot restructure it so that it was a shorter term contract where WWF is on the hook for less money if they decide that if they no longer want Bret Hart in the company?
I just don't see why "We don't want to fulfill this 20 year contract, Bret needs to go" was the only option. If Bret was willing to accept a 3 year deal from WWF, it would have cost them $4.5 million. Even if they restructured for the same deal he got from WCW, 3/$2.5 which would have come out to $7.5 million....it's less than the $30 million they would have payed him on the original 20 year contract.
Again....I don't see why the only solution was that Bret needed to go to WCW. I think the WWF could have still kept Bret and Bret WANTED to stay. I don't see why Bret and WWF couldn't agree to work out a contract where Bret could stay for LESS.
Bret allowed WWF to break a 20 year, $30 million dollar contract for a 3 year $7.5 million dollar contract from WCW...so he left a LOT of money on the table, granted the lighter schedule that WCW operated under.
I also find it kind of comical that Bret was so willing to accept less money and left $22.5 million dollars on the table, but wasn't willing to budge on things that pertained to creative, but again, I don't want to turn this into a Montreal Screwjob thread, this is meant more to discuss the contract and financial situation.
Anybody have any opinions on this?
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Post by PJ on May 31, 2018 13:27:29 GMT -5
Was the wwe contract signed? From what I remember (or thought I remember) from the “Wrestling with Shadows” documentary he was offered the contract. Then Vince called him and told him after thinking about it he couldn’t pay it and seek one with WCW. But I really have no idea why Vince didn’t want to matched it at re very least to keep Bret, because from what I remember Bret wanted to stay.
Just think if Vince matched it Bret wouldn’t have gotten injured by Goldberg and force to retire. And Owen would still be alive. Or I should say he wouldn’t have died that night.
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Post by Lorenzo Alcazar on May 31, 2018 13:48:35 GMT -5
Was the wwe contract signed? From what I remember (or thought I remember) from the “Wrestling with Shadows” documentary he was offered the contract. Then Vince called him and told him after thinking about it he couldn’t pay it and seek one with WCW. But I really have no idea why Vince didn’t want to matched it at re very least to keep Bret, because from what I remember Bret wanted to stay. Just think if Vince matched it Bret wouldn’t have gotten injured by Goldberg and force to retire. And Owen would still be alive. Or I should say he wouldn’t have died that night. I know Wikipedia isn't a legit source but according to Wikipedia the contract was signed in 1996 and then in 1997 Vince decided he wanted out of the deal. If WWF could have got Bret to take a 3 year deal for the same $1.5, it's only a $4.5 million dollar commitment. Hell, maybe you raise his salary to $2 million to really convince him to shorten the deal and it's still only a $6 million dollar commitment on the part of the WWF. Again, I just don't understand why Bret leaving was the only option. Eric Bischoff has said Bret wasn't a draw and the internet alludes to Vince feeling that Bret wasn't as much of a draw as he was in the late 80's/early 90's so that's why he wanted out of the 20 year deal....but I think Bret still had short term value even at 40 years old and at 3/$4.5 or 3/$6 you've still saved $24-$25.5 million of the $30 that you committed to. I wonder if anyone will ever ask Bret about the financial aspect of all of this. I think everyone focuses so much on the Montreal Screwjob and everything with Vince and Shawn that it's kind of lost that MONEY was really the cause of all of this. |
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Post by Patrick Bateman (original) on May 31, 2018 14:41:36 GMT -5
I can tell you exactly what was supposed to happen.
Bret and Vince both knew Bret had 5 years max left to wrestle. What was supposed to happen, and the reason Bret agreed to leave is. He would go to wCw for 3 years, make a lot more than WWF was going to pay him. Come back to WWF, for a final retirement program. Then he would work in the WWF behind the scenes.
That's why his contract was 20 years. So what he did is took more upfront from wCw and the backend was supposed to be as a WWF backstage person.
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jeffro2000
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Post by jeffro2000 on May 31, 2018 14:56:31 GMT -5
I think it was more about the money being paid to him at that time vs the future years.
The contract maybe averaged a $1m a year, I think that's been disputed, but Prichard says it was staggered. He would be paid more while working as a wrestler vs an agent/whatever down the road.
I think in the short term, Bret was going to make a lot more money with WCW vs WWf. Also, in 3-4 yrs, the thinking would've been he was going to re-sign with WCW or WWF and still have the opportunity to earn that remaining $$ over the next 20yrs in the wrestling business by wrestling and backstage in WWF most likely.
No one knew at this time his WWE bridge was about to burn, his in ring career was going to be over soon, WCW was going to be defunct, Bret was going to have a stroke, Etc.
Obviously a lot changed after this. My opinion is that Vince could still pay Bret, but maybe thought it wasn't the best investment. He took Bret's money and gave it to Tyson and other guys. Tyson for his few appearances probably made as much or more than Bret was guaranteed in 98.
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Post by The Brain on May 31, 2018 15:09:02 GMT -5
Looking back I wish Bret did stay. We would've never got that horrible WCW run where they wasted his talents and on top of it all like PJ said Owen would've lived. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on May 31, 2018 15:27:13 GMT -5
I honestly always thought that Bret signed for 1 year in late 1996.
During that entire time Bret got screwed too.
He got screwed by HBK in the IYH Dec. 96 Title match with Sid.
He got screwed at the 97 Rumble by Austin.
The following night on Raw he complained so much about getting screwed that he said he was leaving the WWE and walked out, but ended up coming back near the end of the show.
He said he got screwed by Austin the night he lost the WWE Title to Sid on Raw.
He got screwed by Austin and Taker when he lost the steel cage match to Sid.
It just seemed that from Dec. 96 - March 97 he said, "I got screwed" a lot.
Fast forward to Nov. 97 at Survivor Series and he gets screwed.
I still think it was a work. Bret stated in Wrestling With Shadows that he did not want to leave the WWE. So why not stay??
But work or shoot, that night will always be talked about and if it was a work, it will go down as the greatest work in the history of the business.
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Post by K5 on May 31, 2018 19:33:25 GMT -5
I just don’t think it could be a shoot considering Bret mixing his contempt for Vince at one time upon both the way he left the company and Owen’s death.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2018 19:59:16 GMT -5
I will always believe that Bret is a mercenary that Vince let get hired by WcW to destroy it from within.
A lot better to think about it that way than what really happened.
Dude got paid all that money in WcW to do nothing except get El Dandy over.
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Post by marino13 on May 31, 2018 20:32:46 GMT -5
The whole thing was a cluster**** from the get go. The booking at the time was so poorly handled. Too many talents were calling their own shots. Vince even offering a contract of that size was mind boggling. And I'll NEVER understand why they waited till the last damn second to get the title off Bret. It's all blew up in Vince face and somehow he came out looking better than beforehand.
Bret in wCw was like Jordan playing for the Wizards. Just NEVER felt right. If I had a wrestling time machine, this is one of the first things I'd fix.
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nibs92
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Post by nibs92 on Jun 1, 2018 3:28:39 GMT -5
If I remember rightly, part of Bret’s complaints were that he agreed to turn heel in the whole Hart Foundation/pro Canada angle. Then Vince started pushing Shawn as the top heel, which irked Bret. He wasn’t happy that he ended up as second fiddle.
And from McMahons point of view, do you want to pay top dollar to someone who isn’t on top? It’s been said elsewhere whether he’d signed the 20 year contract but I seem to remember Bret saying on WWS that he was a year into his 20 year deal when Vince called and said he wanted out and the Hitman should phone Bischoff to see if he could negotite the previous offer from WCW. It’s my belief that McMahon no longer felt he was worth the money so yes Bret leaving was the only option.
And for the record the whole situation definitely wasn’t a work. The details would have been leaked by now if it was
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Post by hbkjason on Jun 1, 2018 3:59:08 GMT -5
I love HBK, but a huge part of this was that simply Shawn Michaels wanted to stick it to Bret Hart and he did just that.
Really sad how Bret Hart's career would turn out, but he is still one of my all time favorites. I never understand when people criticise Bret Har for not getting over stuff. Just because the guy had millions of dollars does not make him not human. Over a short period of time, he went through a ton of bad crapwhich I am sure would alter anyone's outlook on life.
While it sucks to think about what happened to Bret Hart in WCW. As much as I consider Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels to be two of the greatest of all time, hell they are both in my top three of all time. I think that for the WWF to enter that boom period that it did, both of them needed to go.
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Falconsinclair
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Post by Falconsinclair on Jun 1, 2018 4:51:47 GMT -5
Long story; Bret's contract was a 20 year deal that would have dropped off significantly once his in-ring commitments were done 5-6 years tops before working a behind the scene roll for the remainder of the contract (ambassador, producer, whatever). Bret's contract would have kept him near the top of the card for the remainder of his run as well.
A year into the deal Vince needed money to bring in Mike Tyson for Mania and the biggest "drain" on the books was the Hitman's contract. With revenues on the downside and WWE/F hanging on by a thread at that time it made sense for Vinnie Mac to see if Bret was willing to cut ties, or he let him know that he taking an out clause the contact probably had (I've never seen the actual contract so this is pure speculation)
Short Story: If Bret stayed there wouldn't have been no Mike Tyson at Mania that year and we probably wouldn't have gotten the rise of Stone Cold which completely turned things around for the WWE/F at a time when there was a very strong possibility of them actually going bankrupt.
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koreygunz
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Post by koreygunz on Jun 1, 2018 9:00:13 GMT -5
IMO, Vince didnt see Bret as a top draw anymore and wasnt worth the money he was asking for, and also wasnt worth the constant complaining and infighting with Shawn. I also dont believe there is a true link between Bret's contract and being able to bring Tyson in. I think Bruce Prichard even said that money for Tyson came from a different account in the company.
The confusing thing to me is this- Eric Bischoff was just on his podcast talking about how Bret wasn't a top draw at the time in the WWF and wasnt the top heel in the business, yet he signed him to a huge contract! And on top of that, three months into his run, HE TURNED HIM HEEL! Sounds a bit like revisionist history to me to account for WCW's terrible handling of him.
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on Jun 1, 2018 16:16:07 GMT -5
I would've tried to keep him until at least 2003 because he was still really valuable. In '96 I would've given him something like a 5-year deal worth 2.5 mil a year. Had the negotiations been better, I think he would've retired in WWE around 2002/2003 with more legendary matches to his career.
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Post by mikey1974 on Jun 1, 2018 19:55:58 GMT -5
It was 5 years at $1.5 million per year as an active wrestler, 5 years at $500,000 per year as the "Babe Ruth of the WWF" as a special attraction with limited dates per year, then 10 years at $250,000 as a backstage agent.
I get the impression it was a combination of HBK/HHH in Vince's year as well as Vince believing Bret's value was declining that led Vince to decide to break the deal. At the time, he told Bret he was in serious financial straits and was looking to downsize back to a Northeastern regional promotion and could no longer afford to pay him, but he would eventually get all the money on the backend of the contract. But if Bret wanted to try and negotiate with WCW again, Vince would let him.
This went back and forth for awhile, with Vince saying one week he couldn't afford the deal, the next week he was selling some assets to cover it, the next week he was almost out of business, week after he was able to generate the cash,etc.
My persona lfeeling is Vince didn't like the creative control clause it gave Bret, didn't like that he was the highest paid WWF star up to that point, and needed to generate some quick cash to pay Mike Tyson to come in. so he sacrificed the Hitman.
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