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Post by warriorlynx on Jul 26, 2018 12:50:50 GMT -5
Without Hulk, we all know that the business wouldn't be where it is today. But there is that question, who would Vince McMahon would have chosen if Hulk Hogan stayed in the AWA? Could he even go national? There are a few guys in mind, here are some ideas: WWF Stars:  Jimmy Snuka - Clearly the top WWF star in 1983 (some could argue he was more over than Hulk in '84). He had strong national appeal as an "exotic" wrestler as well. The scandal with his girlfriend likely would've made more headlines if he was champ and may not have looked well on the WWF.  Sgt. Slaughter - Was a heel in 1983, but became one of the top babyfaces in early '84 as an American Hero. Taking the title off of the Sheik would've worked with him. However his relationship with the WWF may not have lasted because of the G.I. Joe toy line fiasco in '85.  Paul Orndorff - Debuted in the WWF in late 1983 as a heel (though he was a babyface feuding with Flair in 82). Perhaps he could've debuted as a babyface to help Bob Backlund against the Sheik. Mr. Wonderful had the look and charisma.  Maginficent Muraco - He may not have been tall as Hulk was, but he was a big guy (fitting what Vince might have needed) and had some of the bloodiest matches during his IC title run. Perhaps a babyface turn might've worked by getting screwed out of the IC title in a match and thereafter teaming with Backlund as a face so that we could get to Muraco vs. Iron Sheik for the WWF title. Non-WWF Stars:
 Kerry Von Erich - Kerry had the look, may not be as charasmatic, but was from a family dynasty. Kerry would go on to win the NWA World title off of Flair in 84 (likely as a response to Hulkamania's rise), so he had potential to carry the WWF into the territories. The Von Erichs and Vince McMahon may not have worked well together IMO.  Ric Flair - Highly unlikely he would've joined the WWF in 1983 especially since the NWA World Championship was still the big prize in America, along with the AWA World title. Vince envisioned himself as a Ric Flair and would've gotten along with him, but he'd need to be a face. It's doubtful Vince would've wanted a long-term heel champion.  Junkyard Dog - JYD was one of the top faces in the WWF in 85 especially when he won the Wrestling Classic (a PPV event after WM1). He's always had potential, feuded with the "Rat Pack" in the territories before being brought in the WWF in mid-84. Perhaps an earlier deal could've worked. Would people buy into the "first African-American Champion"? That's another argument. As for guys like Dusty Rhodes, who was one of the top babyfaces of the late 70s and 80s might not be a pick because the McMahons saw him to be too full of himself when he was in the WWWF back in the day. Who do you think would've had what it took? Could Vince even go National with any of these guys above? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 16:28:04 GMT -5
Kevin Sullivan actually did a guest booker on this at kayfabecommentaries.com. You should check it out.
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Post by PJ on Jul 27, 2018 4:54:23 GMT -5
Without Hogan? No one...it had to be Hogan. Because looking back at all those names as good as they all were were none had the impact that Hogan had at least in the WWF. There was Piper who I would say proved he was an equal when he was given the opportunity, but he was a heel and he and Hogan fed off each other. Other than Snuka no other talent besides Hogan that could keep up with Piper. But as awesome of a performer that Snuka was he couldn’t have done what Hogan did for wrestling. None of those names could have carried the WWF and go national like Hogan did.
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jul 27, 2018 10:24:31 GMT -5
I wonder how much Verne Gagne regretted letting Hogan go to the WWE and not stay in the AWA after the boom of Hulkamania in 1984?? If you look back at the AWA in 1983, Hulkamania was alive and well, and fans wanted Hogan to be the man in AWA. He won the title twice but got it taken away twice, but look how quick McMahon pulled the trigger in the WWE, right off the bat!
Verne had a lot of talent that went on to become superstars in the wrestling business, and he had no clue what to do with them when he had them. It's crazy to think what would have happened in the world of wrestling if Verne had kept all that talent in the AWA and went huge with that.
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Post by warriorlynx on Jul 27, 2018 10:51:10 GMT -5
I wonder how much Verne Gagne regretted letting Hogan go to the WWE and not stay in the AWA after the boom of Hulkamania in 1984?? If you look back at the AWA in 1983, Hulkamania was alive and well, and fans wanted Hogan to be the man in AWA. He won the title twice but got it taken away twice, but look how quick McMahon pulled the trigger in the WWE, right off the bat! Verne had a lot of talent that went on to become superstars in the wrestling business, and he had no clue what to do with them when he had them. It's crazy to think what would have happened in the world of wrestling if Verne had kept all that talent in the AWA and went huge with that. Besides wanting money for Hogan's Japan merch and the likelyhood of politics from Bockwinkel, it was all about family back in the territories, much like a mafia. Verne wanted Hogan to marry his daughter, and Hogan didn't want too, hence no title. |
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Post by hbkbigdaddycool on Jul 27, 2018 11:06:45 GMT -5
I wonder how much Verne Gagne regretted letting Hogan go to the WWE and not stay in the AWA after the boom of Hulkamania in 1984?? If you look back at the AWA in 1983, Hulkamania was alive and well, and fans wanted Hogan to be the man in AWA. He won the title twice but got it taken away twice, but look how quick McMahon pulled the trigger in the WWE, right off the bat! Verne had a lot of talent that went on to become superstars in the wrestling business, and he had no clue what to do with them when he had them. It's crazy to think what would have happened in the world of wrestling if Verne had kept all that talent in the AWA and went huge with that. Besides wanting money for Hogan's Japan merch and the likelyhood of politics from Bockwinkel, it was all about family back in the territories, much like a mafia. Verne wanted Hogan to marry his daughter, and Hogan didn't want too, hence no title.
Larry Zbyzsko didn't think twice about that one then! Ha ha ha.
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Post by K5 on Jul 27, 2018 13:51:19 GMT -5
since this is all what ifs, i’ll say that I could see superstar billy graham doing much of what hulk hogan had done in the 70s had he been truly given the ball and a follow up face run. Vince sr cut the legs out from that, and that sent billy on the downhill slide he ended up on. it’s easy to disregard him now as he’s embarrassed himself on countless occasions, but when he was on he was on. revolutionized the promo and the look of what a wrestler is.
wrestling was always going to go national though. it already had before Vince jr a few times anyways..
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Post by PJ on Jul 27, 2018 16:03:57 GMT -5
since this is all what ifs, i’ll say that I could see superstar billy graham doing much of what hulk hogan had done in the 70s had he been truly given the ball and a follow up face run. Vince sr cut the legs out from that, and that sent billy on the downhill slide he ended up on. it’s easy to disregard him now as he’s embarrassed himself on countless occasions, but when he was on he was on. revolutionized the promo and the look of what a wrestler is. wrestling was always going to go national though. it already had before Vince jr a few times anyways.. First let me say I loved Graham back in the day. One of my fondest wrestling memories was when he came back to the WWF as the bald karate Graham and tore two Heavyweight Championship belt apart with his hands as Backlund cried “Why?!”, but that said I don’t think so as far as to what Hogan did. He was a great heel. One of the all-time greatest, but I never believed him as a face. And I just don’t see a great heel character doing as well as what Hogan did as a face bringing the WWF/Pro wrestling to the heights of popularity back then. |
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jeffro2000
Main Eventer
Joined on: May 16, 2011 14:23:29 GMT -5
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Post by jeffro2000 on Jul 27, 2018 16:35:36 GMT -5
Like others, I have a hard time seeing anyone else doing what Hulk did.
However, I have always said, JYD could've carried them for a bit. Dusty also could've for a brief period just to get the expansion going.
A dark horse I have thought about in the past is Tony Atlas if straight and booked like Hogan.
Hogan was special though. So many try to discredit the guy these days, but he still is the biggest star in the sports history.
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Post by warriorlynx on Jul 27, 2018 21:23:34 GMT -5
since this is all what ifs, i’ll say that I could see superstar billy graham doing much of what hulk hogan had done in the 70s had he been truly given the ball and a follow up face run. Vince sr cut the legs out from that, and that sent billy on the downhill slide he ended up on. it’s easy to disregard him now as he’s embarrassed himself on countless occasions, but when he was on he was on. revolutionized the promo and the look of what a wrestler is. wrestling was always going to go national though. it already had before Vince jr a few times anyways.. First let me say I loved Graham back in the day. One of my fondest wrestling memories was when he came back to the WWF as the bald karate Graham and tore two Heavyweight Championship belt apart with his hands as Backlund cried “Why?!”, but that said I don’t think so as far as to what Hogan did. He was a great heel. One of the all-time greatest, but I never believed him as a face. And I just don’t see a great heel character doing as well as what Hogan did as a face bringing the WWF/Pro wrestling to the heights of popularity back then. When Superstar was champ the fans wanted him to be a face and he had sold out so many shows it was wild (even packing the Felt Forum at MSG or packing the Spectrum that you couldn't even get tickets and this WITH the under 14 age ban). Other than the obvious body he had and charisma, he was also an "American", something the New York territory wasn't used too since they always had "ethnic" Champions. If he was given the babyface run in 1978, things would've been different and probably long term. Heck he probably would've gotten the Thunderlips role too in Rocky 3. However after Vince Sr rejected his face turn plan that he had, things went downhill from there. It got so bad that Gorilla Monsoon literally wrote an editorial saying he was dead. Superstar ended up going in a downhill path in his personal life, fighting his demons, heck you can see how much different and out of shape he looked when he returned to the WWF with the karate gimmick. Plus he wasn't getting any younger either and with the bumps he took (since MSG rings were hard boxing rings rather than the more gimmick rings they have today), it's doubtful that Vince Jr would've given him a push in 83. I also have a diary up about a babyface run of Superstar  forum.wrestlingfigs.com/thread/351781/wwf-1978-80-showdown-shea |
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Post by Nivro™ on Jul 27, 2018 21:28:31 GMT -5
If Hogan didnt join WWF then we would be watching the Jim Crockett Promotion network & buying JCP figures. A lot of people forget that while Vince was snatching up talent to go national, Jim Crockett was doing the exact same thing. A WWF with no Hogan wouldnt stand a chance against an JCP that was figure headed by Ric Flair.
As JCP snatched up Mid South, Florida, World Class and started to move north, they would have slowly taken over all the strongholds of WWF until Vince eventually caved into the much larger power.
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Post by LA Times on Jul 27, 2018 22:05:23 GMT -5
There was always the rumor that if Vince McMahon never signed Hogan, he wouldve went after Kerry Von Erich to be the face of the WWF, but Von Erich could never have done what Hogan did. A wrestling promotion is only as good as the stars that it has and creates.
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Post by PJ on Jul 28, 2018 2:55:02 GMT -5
First let me say I loved Graham back in the day. One of my fondest wrestling memories was when he came back to the WWF as the bald karate Graham and tore two Heavyweight Championship belt apart with his hands as Backlund cried “Why?!”, but that said I don’t think so as far as to what Hogan did. He was a great heel. One of the all-time greatest, but I never believed him as a face. And I just don’t see a great heel character doing as well as what Hogan did as a face bringing the WWF/Pro wrestling to the heights of popularity back then. When Superstar was champ the fans wanted him to be a face and he had sold out so many shows it was wild (even packing the Felt Forum at MSG or packing the Spectrum that you couldn't even get tickets and this WITH the under 14 age ban). Other than the obvious body he had and charisma, he was also an "American", something the New York territory wasn't used too since they always had "ethnic" Champions. If he was given the babyface run in 1978, things would've been different and probably long term. Heck he probably would've gotten the Thunderlips role too in Rocky 3. However after Vince Sr rejected his face turn plan that he had, things went downhill from there. It got so bad that Gorilla Monsoon literally wrote an editorial saying he was dead. Superstar ended up going in a downhill path in his personal life, fighting his demons, heck you can see how much different and out of shape he looked when he returned to the WWF with the karate gimmick. Plus he wasn't getting any younger either and with the bumps he took (since MSG rings were hard boxing rings rather than the more gimmick rings they have today), it's doubtful that Vince Jr would've given him a push in 83. I also have a diary up about a babyface run of Superstar forum.wrestlingfigs.com/thread/351781/wwf-1978-80-showdown-sheaIf that is true I don’t remember it at all. I have been watching wrestling since the Mid-70’s and the only thing I remember was besides my father the fans all hated him. Dusty was popular when he was working in the WWE, but I just remember Graham being hated and fans throwing things at him during the monthly MSG televised shows. |
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Post by warriorlynx on Jul 28, 2018 9:25:16 GMT -5
When Superstar was champ the fans wanted him to be a face and he had sold out so many shows it was wild (even packing the Felt Forum at MSG or packing the Spectrum that you couldn't even get tickets and this WITH the under 14 age ban). Other than the obvious body he had and charisma, he was also an "American", something the New York territory wasn't used too since they always had "ethnic" Champions. If he was given the babyface run in 1978, things would've been different and probably long term. Heck he probably would've gotten the Thunderlips role too in Rocky 3. However after Vince Sr rejected his face turn plan that he had, things went downhill from there. It got so bad that Gorilla Monsoon literally wrote an editorial saying he was dead. Superstar ended up going in a downhill path in his personal life, fighting his demons, heck you can see how much different and out of shape he looked when he returned to the WWF with the karate gimmick. Plus he wasn't getting any younger either and with the bumps he took (since MSG rings were hard boxing rings rather than the more gimmick rings they have today), it's doubtful that Vince Jr would've given him a push in 83. I also have a diary up about a babyface run of Superstar forum.wrestlingfigs.com/thread/351781/wwf-1978-80-showdown-sheaIf that is true I don’t remember it at all. I have been watching wrestling since the Mid-70’s and the only thing I remember was besides my father the fans all hated him. Dusty was popular when he was working in the WWE, but I just remember Graham being hated and fans throwing things at him during the monthly MSG televised shows. Don't get me wrong yes he was a heel, but think late 96-97 Austin, all that was needed was a face turn and the WWF wouldn't have nearly collapsed with Backlund. Graham wanted Ivan Koloff to betray him and feud with him as part of that turn. There is always that saying, the stronger the heel, the bigger the turn. Would've been something. |
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on Jul 28, 2018 9:26:30 GMT -5
I think Randy Savage would've been the marquee guy and deservedly so.
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Post by warriorlynx on Jul 28, 2018 9:37:15 GMT -5
If Hogan didnt join WWF then we would be watching the Jim Crockett Promotion network & buying JCP figures. A lot of people forget that while Vince was snatching up talent to go national, Jim Crockett was doing the exact same thing. A WWF with no Hogan wouldnt stand a chance against an JCP that was figure headed by Ric Flair. As JCP snatched up Mid South, Florida, World Class and started to move north, they would have slowly taken over all the strongholds of WWF until Vince eventually caved into the much larger power. That is a strong possibility, though if Verne makes up his mind by 84 to put the title on Hogan, the AWA would be a big challenger to JCP. The talent in the AWA was big in 1983, other than the champ Nick Bockwinkel, you had Ken Patera, Bobby Duncam, Rick Martel, Mad Dog Vachon, Jesse Ventura, Jerry Blackwell, Kamala, Tony Atlas, Butch Reed, Jim Duggan, King Kong Bundy, Dino Bravo, Blackjack Mulligan etc. Then of course you have Bobby Heenan and Mean Gene. Also Bruce and Keith Hart worked in the AWA for a bit, perhaps we would've seen Bret move to the AWA. I bet the AWA would've taken over Stampede Wrestling instead of Vince in 84. |
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Post by warriorlynx on Jul 28, 2018 9:39:37 GMT -5
I think Randy Savage would've been the marquee guy and deservedly so. True, he was in Memphis at the time, but he had a reputation apparently, so I'm not sure if Vince would've taken him in late 83. He finally took a chance in 85 despite the so-called rep, and reaped the rewards down the road. |
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Post by The Brain on Jul 28, 2018 11:30:08 GMT -5
If I had to pick a name from the list it'd be Slaughter. We all know how Vince loves his All American babyface.
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Post by warriorlynx on Jul 28, 2018 11:51:21 GMT -5
If I had to pick a name from the list it'd be Slaughter. We all know how Vince loves his All American babyface. You have a good point and he was in shape in 83-84 (plus before he left the WWF he was the second biggest babyface), had a good height on him and weight too. Even in 1991, though not in shape anymore, when he returned the people didn't want him to turn heel. Kids obviously knew him from GI JOE, so the WWF had a hard time initially getting people used to him as a heel. He had potential even in 91 to be a big babyface (probably not the champ though) and have a great run with the company. But turning face after being a turncoat, ughhh not the best way to turn face. I can imagine Sgt. Slaughter WWF toys selling if he stayed a face and never a turncoat. |
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Post by keegandimitrijevic01 on Jul 28, 2018 18:37:19 GMT -5
I think Randy Savage would've been the marquee guy and deservedly so. True, he was in Memphis at the time, but he had a reputation apparently, so I'm not sure if Vince would've taken him in late 83. He finally took a chance in 85 despite the so-called rep, and reaped the rewards down the road. Vince was really lucky to take the gamble on Savage. |
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