hbkowns
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 15, 2011 23:33:52 GMT -5
Posts: 4,249
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Post by hbkowns on Sept 6, 2018 23:54:05 GMT -5
I remember distinctly back in 2014 that Reigns was getting some damn good reactions. If you’d asked me in 2013 I would have undoubtedly said that Reigns would be the next top guy. That ended up being true, but not how I expected.
If we would like to arm-chair quarterback per say, how do you think Reigns would be perceived today if the company cooled off on him in 2015 and slowly built him from there. Because 2013-2015 was all Daniel Bryan. I think WWE could have easily solved this weeks and weeks before Royal Rumble 2015. Anyone with eyes and ears could see the massive backlash that would insue by putting Reigns over in that match. And even then, they shouldn’t have put Bryan in that match if they knows he wasn’t going over. Some would say it’s really silly to critique something that happened 3 years ago, but honestly, the fan reactions to Roman drastically changed after that night. This has had a snowball effect that is still being felt now with WWE desperately trying to get Roman over 3 years later. Anyone think that it could have been handled differently then? And if so, how do you think Roman would be perceived today?
Again, this is is not a bash Roman Reigns thread!!
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Post by LK3 on Sept 7, 2018 0:31:43 GMT -5
So you're asking whether or not Reigns would've been received better had Daniel Bryan not been in the 2015 RR Match?
If so, my answer is no. 2014 everyone was furious that Bryan wasn't in the match. Would've been the same deal as '14, but worse, had he not even been in the match. Personally, I didn't have an issue with Reigns winning the RR in '15. I mostly expected it. I was upset at the booking of the match. Bryan being out so early, Kane/Big Show shutting down anyone who the crowd would've been behind. Some say things may have been worse had Reigns eliminated Bryan to win the match, but I don't agree with that. They'd have saved a half hour of constant booing during the match for the same amount of booing post-match. And in general, I don't think anything was going to save Reigns from the reactions we currently have, save from a heel turn. I don't believe Daniel Bryan had much of an impact on Reigns' fate with the fans at all.
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Post by tylerbreezee on Sept 7, 2018 7:39:45 GMT -5
No. Everyone in the 2015 Rumble was booed. Anyone who wasn’t Ziggler and Ambrose would’ve been booed if they won. Reigns was the most inexperienced member of the shield, had the weakest mic skills, had the weakest move set, yet he was just shoved right into the main event of Wrestlemania. What really cemented his downfall was giving him superstar of the year for doing absolute crap and not even being around part of the year.
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Post by k5 on Sept 7, 2018 8:37:53 GMT -5
it’s fascinating how people can’t see that the non organic, forced, uncreative, lifeless push that reigns got is what was responsible for his demise in popularity.
exact same as the cena sucks era, but at least this time the rest of the roster is stacked
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Post by bababooey on Sept 7, 2018 8:51:01 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan was the guy we all wanted when the Reigns mega push started. When they went in the Reigns direction, it did fuel the anti-Reigns flames. However, I do think realistically they are kind of unrelated. Whether Bryan was around or not, they booked the Roman Reigns character all wrong. He’s positioned as a baby face but everything he does screams heel.
He’s often the bigger guy and favored in matches, so it’s hard for him to get any sympathy from the crowd. He complains a lot about not getting opportunities when he gets more than anyone else. Even now with the Shield stuff, he needed his friends to protect his title for him.
If he was positioned as a heel, he would be a lot more natural and his booking would actually make some sense. Have him be an ass kicker that beats guys down. He’s actually got a lot of charisma when he’s being a jerk. They weren’t afraid to make the Rock a heel. I really think Roman would be in the same boat as the Rock if he was positioned as a heel.
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Post by cordless2016 on Sept 7, 2018 11:21:13 GMT -5
No because people still saw Reigns as Vince’s hand chosen guy.
He got a few good reactions post-Shield breakup but they were nothing like the one Ambrose was getting (Ambrose going after Seth right away made more sense than Reigns seemingly forgetting Seth betrayed them and going after the WWE Title).
At the time a lot of people didn’t believe that Vince was going to skyrocket Reigns to the moon so fast as he barely had 4 months of a singles run in his entire WWE career to that point before winning the 2015 RR.
The only way I see him not getting hated like he did wasnif Vince let him get over organically. Yes it would have taken more time but look where we are today.
Reigns should have been the one to dethrone Rusev for the US Title and gone on to have the “US Title Open Challenge.” It would have benefitted him a lot more than Cena. Then maybe a year later it would have worked better for him but literally shoving him right in the main event post-Shield was going to get him booed whether Bryan was there or not.
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Post by rkfastmo on Sept 7, 2018 11:31:47 GMT -5
Having a roster full of popular Indy darlings who always come second to Dat Dude in every facet doesn't help matters. But the real problem confronting Roman right now is his booking. I, among others, have clamored for the writing staff to turn him for months, if not years. He exudes heel every time he is on TV. It is the edict of Vince and Creative to keep him as not only a face, but the top good guy in WWE, that causes such a backlash from WWE viewers of a certain mind. Forcing him into the cookie cutter Super Cena mold is doing him no favors in many of our eyes, though I assume this tactic is working for the WWE's target demographic.
What Vince is missing is the opportunity to allow Reigns to develop into the megastar Vince desires. Most of the biggest stars in this industry developed their personality as heels.
John Cena was reportedly close to being released before he started with his rapper gimmick as a heel: he became the most popular talent out of the RA Era.
"Die Rocky Die" echoed through the arenas before a similarly young white bread babyface turned into a smartmouthed catchphrase machine as a heel. A certain redneck was never meant to be much more than a bit player heel before Vince actually listened to the crowd and recognized him as a suitable answer for what the WCW was doing. And now The Rock and Steve Austin are considered two of the most important stars in wrestling history.
Ric Flair started out struggling to find his niche in the wrestling industry. His desire to make it in the business led him to model himself into the stylin' and profilin' "Nature Boy" gimmick that we all identify with him today.
Even Hulk Hogan discovered his famous mannerisms by listening to the crowd's reactions as he was performing as a heel.
If Vince truly wants more than the children demo to embrace Roman Reigns as a top guy, he needs to stop forcing Da Big Dawg down all our throats. It doesn't just hurt us fans to see Reigns cast as some form of Austin, Cena, Hogan, and Rock rolled into one being; it also hinders Roman's growth as a superstar because that doesn't seem to be who he really is anyway. Let him play out his heelness now while he works on finding his voice to be a top face. And if that never comes to him, at least they can know now to find the right guy and save them the frustration of having their "top guy" get booed outta arenas for the next 10-15 years.
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Post by drifter on Sept 7, 2018 11:34:03 GMT -5
So you're talking about if everything was the same, just no Daniel Bryan? Basically, Vince had already set the fire with the way he was booking Reigns, the treatment of Bryan, was just gasoline on that fire. It was going to happen, they just accelerated the hate, by trying to screw over Bryan.
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Post by Next Man’s Knowing Rock on Sept 7, 2018 11:42:21 GMT -5
People would have been less salty about Reigns in 2015 if Daniel Bryan wasn’t a factor, but he’d still be getting the “don’t tell me who to like, Vince, you’re not my real dad” reactions by now.
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havoc7179
Main Eventer
What is this?
Joined on: Oct 16, 2012 9:11:18 GMT -5
Posts: 4,189
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Post by havoc7179 on Sept 7, 2018 12:08:38 GMT -5
Having a roster full of popular Indy darlings who always come second to Dat Dude in every facet doesn't help matters. But the real problem confronting Roman right now is his booking. I, among others, have clamored for the writing staff to turn him for months, if not years. He exudes heel every time he is on TV. It is the edict of Vince and Creative to keep him as not only a face, but the top good guy in WWE, that causes such a backlash from WWE viewers of a certain mind. Forcing him into the cookie cutter Super Cena mold is doing him no favors in many of our eyes, though I assume this tactic is working for the WWE's target demographic. What Vince is missing is the opportunity to allow Reigns to develop into the megastar Vince desires. Most of the biggest stars in this industry developed their personality as heels. John Cena was reportedly close to being released before he started with his rapper gimmick as a heel: he became the most popular talent out of the RA Era. "Die Rocky Die" echoed through the arenas before a similarly young white bread babyface turned into a smartmouthed catchphrase machine as a heel. A certain redneck was never meant to be much more than a bit player heel before Vince actually listened to the crowd and recognized him as a suitable answer for what the WCW was doing. And now The Rock and Steve Austin are considered two of the most important stars in wrestling history. Ric Flair started out struggling to find his niche in the wrestling industry. His desire to make it in the business led him to model himself into the stylin' and profilin' "Nature Boy" gimmick that we all identify with him today. Even Hulk Hogan discovered his famous mannerisms by listening to the crowd's reactions as he was performing as a heel. If Vince truly wants more than the children demo to embrace Roman Reigns as a top guy, he needs to stop forcing Da Big Dawg down all our throats. It doesn't just hurt us fans to see Reigns cast as some form of Austin, Cena, Hogan, and Rock rolled into one being; it also hinders Roman's growth as a superstar because that doesn't seem to be who he really is anyway. Let him play out his heelness now while he works on finding his voice to be a top face. And if that never comes to him, at least they can know now to find the right guy and save them the frustration of having their "top guy" get booed outta arenas for the next 10-15 years. Except romans did have his heel run. Shield wasn’t exactly a face team when they debuted. Bigger problem was not giving him the US title run during that heel era. They made him look like a silent enforcer and didn’t give him a chance to really shine as a singles wrestler. So his immediate push to the top after the split hurt. Plus iirc he seemed to kind of forget about Rollins right after the split b
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Post by rkfastmo on Sept 7, 2018 13:37:22 GMT -5
havoc7179 Well aware that the Shield was considered a heel faction at the time of their debut but the fans liked them. They were actually the "cool heels." Plus Roman had the benefit of having Rollins and Ambrose by his side so his flaws were masked, the same reasons why Creative has been pushing the Shield reunion for the past year and why Reigns has yet to really move on from the persona he had in that group. So I can agree that he didn't get to showcase his own unique personality as a singles competitor before his megapush. But who Roman Reigns is right now is exactly who Vince wanted him to be when talks of splitting up the Shield began back in the summer of 2013. Roman had already been cast to fill John Cena's role as the perennial top babyface that can never be shown to have a weakness in a fair fight and can always get wins back in the rare occasion he does lose a match.
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Post by theoutlaw1999 on Sept 7, 2018 17:08:03 GMT -5
Not really but it did add fuel to the fire. Roman didn't get booed until the 2015 Rumble. Before he was getting good reactions and even the night at the Slammys when he won superstar of the year he got a decent pop despite not deserving the award.
In all honesty Daniel Bryan brought on the hate quicker than it should've. Looking back at Cena it was a few years before the fans turned on him but with Reigns he hadn't even had a title reign.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,488
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Sept 7, 2018 17:32:36 GMT -5
Not really but it did add fuel to the fire. Roman didn't get booed until the 2015 Rumble. Before he was getting good reactions and even the night at the Slammys when he won superstar of the year he got a decent pop despite not deserving the award. In all honesty Daniel Bryan brought on the hate quicker than it should've. Looking back at Cena it was a few years before the fans turned on him but with Reigns he hadn't even had a title reign. It wasnt even a few years that fans starting booing Cena after winning the title. He was getting booed heavily during his feud with Jericho and Christian like 3 months later. Then against Angle after that.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Sept 7, 2018 17:45:31 GMT -5
Roman was super over right before and immediately after the Shield breakup. What hurt him the most was losing momentum due to being out with hernia surgery. His time off was handled horribly. They did periodic check ins that exposed him on how unskilled he was talking. Dean and Seth also both grew their characters and got more over as individuals than they were in the Shield. Roman never really changed. He came out to the same music, still came out through the crowd, and wore the same attire. When he returned from injury no one really cared about him anymore. His scripted cheesy one liners like sufferin succotash weren't doing him any favors either. So instead of reassessing his status he was shoved down everyone's throat which forced everyone to reject him. Daniel Bryan isn't the reason he got booed. Vince McMahon not protecting him and going in a different direction when he started seeing people turn on him is why he got and continues to get booed.
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Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Sept 7, 2018 23:04:51 GMT -5
Roman was super over right before and immediately after the Shield breakup. What hurt him the most was losing momentum due to being out with hernia surgery. His time off was handled horribly. They did periodic check ins that exposed him on how unskilled he was talking. Dean and Seth also both grew their characters and got more over as individuals than they were in the Shield. Roman never really changed. He came out to the same music, still came out through the crowd, and wore the same attire. When he returned from injury no one really cared about him anymore. His scripted cheesy one liners like sufferin succotash weren't doing him any favors either. So instead of reassessing his status he was shoved down everyone's throat which forced everyone to reject him. Daniel Bryan isn't the reason he got booed. Vince McMahon not protecting him and going in a different direction when he started seeing people turn on him is why he got and continues to get booed. This 100%! Another factor could be the fact that news had leaked around mid-2014 that Lesnar/Reigns was the plan for WrestleMania 31, so we essentially watched him get groomed for that spot and even though it was inevitably happening, the fans just sh*t on him. It’s abit like when it was announced in the summer of 2012 that The Rock would be challenging for the WWE title at Royal Rumble 2013, so we all knew Cena would win the Rumble leading up to Rock/Cena II. We had 8 months to prepare for that and hated every second of it due to predictable outcome, that and the fact everybody felt like CM Punk deserves to main event WrestleMania 29. The endorsement The Rock and Daniel Bryan gave Reigns leading up to WrestleMania 31 didn’t help either, the fans just didn’t want Reigns in that spot at the time.
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Post by The American Daydream on Sept 8, 2018 6:28:54 GMT -5
No.
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Post by mikey1974 on Sept 8, 2018 15:31:58 GMT -5
No. Everyone in the 2015 Rumble was booed. Anyone who wasn’t Ziggler and Ambrose would’ve been booed if they won. Reigns was the most inexperienced member of the shield, had the weakest mic skills, had the weakest move set, yet he was just shoved right into the main event of Wrestlemania. What really cemented his downfall was giving him superstar of the year for doing absolute crap and not even being around part of the year. This,exactly. Reigns was getting a decent reaction until he got injured. Because it got leaked while he was out that Vince was super high on him,and already had plans for him to win the Rumble and main event Mania... months before the Rumble took place. So people lost their crap because, as you said , Reigns was the weakest member of the former SHIELD at that point and everyone knew Vince had already anointed him the next chosen one. And that's what caused the massive backlash to start. If plans hadn't leaked out, then maybe it wouldn't have been so bad, more of a surprise like "Wow, didn't expect Roman to win the rumble!" ... Instead we knew ahead of time that someone a lot of us thought wasn't worthy of winning the Rumble was going to, so that pissed people off. Then Vince went ahead and did it, just fueling the backlash even more.
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Post by greenjack1992 on Sept 8, 2018 15:37:53 GMT -5
Reigns was loved even while Bryan was at his peak. I'd say he still would be if Vince McMahon wasn't a factor.
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Post by aggressiveperfectpoor on Sept 9, 2018 11:03:52 GMT -5
I honestly believe if Roman wasn't shoved down our throats by Vince and had a little more promo work, he would be over naturally.
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Post by bigshab421 on Sept 10, 2018 8:40:37 GMT -5
If they would have done a somewhat gradual build with him, he'd be the top babyface Vince clamors for him to be. Daniel Bryan's popularity had nothing to do with it.
Problem is post-Shield, he has not had a music change, ring gear change, or a character change. Once the Sheild broke up, Rollins and Ambrose came into their own unique character, while Roman stayed the same, even coming out of the crowd.
If they had him change his look a little bit and gave him a character instead of crying about chances and the establishment, he could be better recieved. But until Vince kicks the bucket, we are stuck with the same old sh*t
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