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Post by OTC Waxbender on Sept 26, 2018 3:32:02 GMT -5
So from having experience in the ring, I can personally admit those kicks arent as easy as everyone thinks. Especially when your opponent is selling the previous kick and feeding back towards for the next one. Not blaming Liv nor am I defending Brie, but you gotta keep your head up. Shame she got injured but thats wrestling. It's live action things dont always go according to plan. You're right and this makes sense, except for it happening twice in one match and multiple times in the last few weeks. They can chalk it up to ring rust if they want but neither are very safe right now. What gets me is the one who has a phenomenal technical wrestler as a husband is doing worse than the one who has John Cena as a husband lmao how does that work?
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Post by bababooey on Sept 26, 2018 8:17:31 GMT -5
So from having experience in the ring, I can personally admit those kicks arent as easy as everyone thinks. Especially when your opponent is selling the previous kick and feeding back towards for the next one. Not blaming Liv nor am I defending Brie, but you gotta keep your head up. Shame she got injured but thats wrestling. It's live action things dont always go according to plan. You're right and this makes sense, except for it happening twice in one match and multiple times in the last few weeks. They can chalk it up to ring rust if they want but neither are very safe right now. What gets me is the one who has a phenomenal technical wrestler as a husband is doing worse than the one who has John Cena as a husband lmao how does that work? The way that works is that technical wrestling ability isn’t based on who you sleep with. Also, Brie is a mother who retired long before Nikki. Nikki has had more recent experience, her move set is more solid and slow paced, and she can focus more on training. As for the spot, it’s really easy to screw up. I know from when I throw strikes in the gym, I’m not 100% on target most of the time. Timing is huge with those kicks. It’s kind of unfair to place blame on Brie or Liv for the kicks. Trying to get proper contact there takes a lot of skill, like hitting a baseball (and a batter that fails 7 out of 10 times is considered great). With Brie having a bunch of ring rust, not really having the skill to pull off those moves, Liv thrashing around as she sells (as she should be), and Liv having long extensions that could block Brie’s view, a ton can go wrong. Even the second kick, I don’t blame on Brie because I’m sure if she noticed Liv was out she would have kicked her again. So accidents happen. Apologize and move on. Where things really broke down in my mind, is that when Brie saw Liv was hurt, she was totally unprepared and had no idea what to do. I believe she was trying to buy Liv time and thinking getting Liv to the corner was helpful, but she should have backed off. Wrestlers should be properly trained in that stuff. Also, the referee needed to jump in and take charge there. He allowed Brie to grab Liv and pull her around. Also, the tweeted out apology was also a bad look. I’m sure she meant well, but it just opens the door for criticism, and it comes off like she’s just trying to protect “the Bella Brand”. The tweet came off like a PR statement to me. She should have just apologized in private, and let the internet hate blow by.
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Post by IRS on Sept 26, 2018 9:03:47 GMT -5
Part of this is on WWE For calling Morgan up way too early. Definitely a strong contender for the most moronic thing I'll read all year. "Damn that green Liv Morgan! It's all her fault a supposed seasoned veteran couldn't time her kicks for chit and stiffly kicked her in the face! She deserves that concussion!"
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Post by OTC Waxbender on Sept 26, 2018 9:10:37 GMT -5
You're right and this makes sense, except for it happening twice in one match and multiple times in the last few weeks. They can chalk it up to ring rust if they want but neither are very safe right now. What gets me is the one who has a phenomenal technical wrestler as a husband is doing worse than the one who has John Cena as a husband lmao how does that work? The way that works is that technical wrestling ability isn’t based on who you sleep with. Also, Brie is a mother who retired long before Nikki. Nikki has had more recent experience, her move set is more solid and slow paced, and she can focus more on training. As for the spot, it’s really easy to screw up. I know from when I throw strikes in the gym, I’m not 100% on target most of the time. Timing is huge with those kicks. It’s kind of unfair to place blame on Brie or Liv for the kicks. Trying to get proper contact there takes a lot of skill, like hitting a baseball (and a batter that fails 7 out of 10 times is considered great). With Brie having a bunch of ring rust, not really having the skill to pull off those moves, Liv thrashing around as she sells (as she should be), and Liv having long extensions that could block Brie’s view, a ton can go wrong. Even the second kick, I don’t blame on Brie because I’m sure if she noticed Liv was out she would have kicked her again. So accidents happen. Apologize and move on. Where things really broke down in my mind, is that when Brie saw Liv was hurt, she was totally unprepared and had no idea what to do. I believe she was trying to buy Liv time and thinking getting Liv to the corner was helpful, but she should have backed off. Wrestlers should be properly trained in that stuff. Also, the referee needed to jump in and take charge there. He allowed Brie to grab Liv and pull her around. Also, the tweeted out apology was also a bad look. I’m sure she meant well, but it just opens the door for criticism, and it comes off like she’s just trying to protect “the Bella Brand”. The tweet came off like a PR statement to me. She should have just apologized in private, and let the internet hate blow by. I can't say I've ever hurt anybody in the gym training, but then again we do everything we learn over and over and over again until it's muscle memory for jujitsu and other MMA. I've never unintentionally hurt a fellow competitor/someone i was sparring with. Maybe that's all it comes down to is enough training to not hurt someone. See I could believe one botch was just ring rust but when it happens 5-6 times in 3 weeks thats just reckless endangerment and poor training plain and simple. No way around it. Botches happen, thats the business/lifestyle but to have it happen back to back to back is something else altogether that's all I'm saying. They need to spend more time honing those "skills" in the ring. No reason should this be a regular occurrence by any means. Watch the next match they're in they botch something and then try and tell me they're not being sloppy.
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Post by bababooey on Sept 26, 2018 9:57:53 GMT -5
The way that works is that technical wrestling ability isn’t based on who you sleep with. Also, Brie is a mother who retired long before Nikki. Nikki has had more recent experience, her move set is more solid and slow paced, and she can focus more on training. As for the spot, it’s really easy to screw up. I know from when I throw strikes in the gym, I’m not 100% on target most of the time. Timing is huge with those kicks. It’s kind of unfair to place blame on Brie or Liv for the kicks. Trying to get proper contact there takes a lot of skill, like hitting a baseball (and a batter that fails 7 out of 10 times is considered great). With Brie having a bunch of ring rust, not really having the skill to pull off those moves, Liv thrashing around as she sells (as she should be), and Liv having long extensions that could block Brie’s view, a ton can go wrong. Even the second kick, I don’t blame on Brie because I’m sure if she noticed Liv was out she would have kicked her again. So accidents happen. Apologize and move on. Where things really broke down in my mind, is that when Brie saw Liv was hurt, she was totally unprepared and had no idea what to do. I believe she was trying to buy Liv time and thinking getting Liv to the corner was helpful, but she should have backed off. Wrestlers should be properly trained in that stuff. Also, the referee needed to jump in and take charge there. He allowed Brie to grab Liv and pull her around. Also, the tweeted out apology was also a bad look. I’m sure she meant well, but it just opens the door for criticism, and it comes off like she’s just trying to protect “the Bella Brand”. The tweet came off like a PR statement to me. She should have just apologized in private, and let the internet hate blow by. I can't say I've ever hurt anybody in the gym training, but then again we do everything we learn over and over and over again until it's muscle memory for jujitsu and other MMA. I've never unintentionally hurt a fellow competitor/someone i was sparring with. Maybe that's all it comes down to is enough training to not hurt someone. See I could believe one botch was just ring rust but when it happens 5-6 times in 3 weeks thats just reckless endangerment and poor training plain and simple. No way around it. Botches happen, thats the business/lifestyle but to have it happen back to back to back is something else altogether that's all I'm saying. They need to spend more time honing those "skills" in the ring. No reason should this be a regular occurrence by any means. Watch the next match they're in they botch something and then try and tell me they're not being sloppy. Right. I agree. There’s ring rust still after weeks because they’re likely not doing much training in between when we see them screwing up on TV. I haven’t hurt anyone in the gym either, but I know I’ve missed because I can feel if I’m off balance, if I’m too close or too far, I can feel if I roll my wrist or if I hyper extend my elbow a little. If I take a couple extra days off I even feel like I’m almost starting over when I get back in the gym. If Brie isn’t putting in extra training, I’m not gonna be surprised if she misses a moving target. I just feel like saying she’s reckless is kinda right, but I’m trying not to use that word because I feel like it gives the impression that she’s heartless and doesn’t care about her opponents. She’s more reckless in the sense that she’s assuming she can just easily do the same stuff she could kinda do when she was training more regularly.
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Jackass Pacific
Main Eventer
WF 20 Year Member
Joined on: Dec 22, 2001 22:58:55 GMT -5
Posts: 3,249
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Post by Jackass Pacific on Sept 26, 2018 12:16:13 GMT -5
Part of this is on WWE For calling Morgan up way too early. so wait, you're blaming liv morgan for getting kicked in the face? how dumb are you? like seriously, do you have an ounce of common sense in your brain?
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Post by Joey Cush on Sept 26, 2018 12:54:56 GMT -5
So from having experience in the ring, I can personally admit those kicks arent as easy as everyone thinks. Especially when your opponent is selling the previous kick and feeding back towards for the next one. Not blaming Liv nor am I defending Brie, but you gotta keep your head up. Shame she got injured but thats wrestling. It's live action things dont always go according to plan. You're right and this makes sense, except for it happening twice in one match and multiple times in the last few weeks. They can chalk it up to ring rust if they want but neither are very safe right now. What gets me is the one who has a phenomenal technical wrestler as a husband is doing worse than the one who has John Cena as a husband lmao how does that work? I will say I always thought it was interesting that Nikki had improved way more than Brie did given she has Bryan helping her. I guess its just the simple some get it and some dont aspect. Also I havent kept up with WWE the last few weeks and only caught the video between Brie/Liv so forgive me if I am not up to date on the latest botches. Im only describing what I see from that video.
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Post by James St. James on Sept 26, 2018 13:06:50 GMT -5
I wish WWE would just come completely clean about their past and current treatment of women, and not just by constantly pushing bra and panty matches under the bus (several of them, most notably the Gauntlet match from NYR 06 were quite entertaining and furthered storylines). The problems go deeper than that, and they persist to this day.
The first is that the women have no personalities. They have a look, a catchphrase to put on t shirts, and a nickname. There is nothing that differentiates the heels from the other heels, or faces from other faces, and every feud is exactly the same. The only place where they are given a personality is on Total Divas, and the girls who are not on that show (save for Charlotte Flair and now Ronda Rousey) suffer for it in the long run.
The second has been the prioritization of models, homegrown talent and part timers forcing the more talented wrestlers to the back of the line. They sacrificed Luna, Jacqueline and Tori for Sable, Ivory for Miss Kitty, made Victoria lay down for Maria, Ashley, Kelly Kelly and almost every other Diva Search contestant until she had no credibility left, shoved Michelle McCool (who was NOT over, all of herreactions were piped in) down our throats for years, and are now doing the same thing with the Bellas. Instead of just letting two talented performers like, oh I don’t know, Asuka and Sasha Banks, put on excellent matches worthy of a main event spot, they are constantly handicapping them by having one of the people in the match be a complete crapshow. Any match that has a Bella Twin, Carmella, Nia Jax, Lana, Alexa Bliss or Dana Brooke in it is going to instantly drop in quality, because not every one of them is created equal. It’s been a popular sentiment that EVERY WOMAN has been an integral part of the Women’s Evolution, but it’s a bold faced lie. Most have held it back tremendously because of a lack of talent and taking up a spot from someone more deserving.
You think Torrie Wilson and Stacy Keibler would have had ladder matches if they were allowed to? You think Kristal Marshall, Ashley Massaro, Jillian Hall, Michelle McCool, Joy Giovanni and Candice Michelle would have had an Elimination Chamber match? None of these things started happening for the women until NXT gave WRESTLERS a chance to properly train as wrestlers and put on great matches. Paige, Emma, Charlotte, Sasha, Becky, Bayley, Asuka and Natalya deserve the credit for showing people that women could put on good matches. Unfortunately, when talking about the rise in quality of matches, you have to s*** on people like The Bella Twins because they suck in the ring and have for years.
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Post by BSR on Sept 26, 2018 13:21:49 GMT -5
Part of this is on WWE For calling Morgan up way too early. so wait, you're blaming liv morgan for getting kicked in the face? how dumb are you? like seriously, do you have an ounce of common sense in your brain? He has to post something edgy
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Ohtimate Wahriah
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
Joined on: Jul 1, 2008 12:35:07 GMT -5
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Post by Ohtimate Wahriah on Sept 26, 2018 13:37:49 GMT -5
People don’t understand the difference in injuring somebody and causing them brief pain. Morgan got kicked in the face for real, and got a concussion. Incompetence isn’t an excuse, if the Bellas can’t wrestle, then THEY are the danger to people’s health. Ruby didn’t hurt Brie, she caused her pain. Brie DID hurt Liv though
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,537
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Sept 26, 2018 13:43:47 GMT -5
That's all I have to say.
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Post by blissfan4life on Sept 26, 2018 14:30:30 GMT -5
Part of this is on WWE For calling Morgan up way too early. No, Morgan was just supposed to be on her knees and let Brie kick her chest 5 times. No bump was taken. Why didnt Brie Bella aim and pull her kicks correctly? It was an accident, and likely Ring Rust takes a while to shake off, especially considering the length of time Brie was away. I'd probably have her go the Performance Center and have either her Husband or Performance center trainers help or try to help her shake the ring rust off, should've done that from the beginning though.
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Post by blissfan4life on Sept 26, 2018 14:31:54 GMT -5
People don’t understand the difference in injuring somebody and causing them brief pain. Morgan got kicked in the face for real, and got a concussion. Incompetence isn’t an excuse, if the Bellas can’t wrestle, then THEY are the danger to people’s health. Ruby didn’t hurt Brie, she caused her pain. Brie DID hurt Liv though You are acting like Brie pulled a Benoit on Liv. Good grief, If Bryan had injured anybody with his kicks, there'd be excuses flying.
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Thunder Chunky
Main Eventer
Joined on: Aug 1, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
Posts: 4,537
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Post by Thunder Chunky on Sept 26, 2018 15:26:53 GMT -5
People don’t understand the difference in injuring somebody and causing them brief pain. Morgan got kicked in the face for real, and got a concussion. Incompetence isn’t an excuse, if the Bellas can’t wrestle, then THEY are the danger to people’s health. Ruby didn’t hurt Brie, she caused her pain. Brie DID hurt Liv though You are acting like Brie pulled a Benoit on Liv. Good grief, If Bryan had injured anybody with his kicks, there'd be excuses flying. So what you're saying is that because Bryan is an internet favorite, no one would be condemning him?
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Post by Rated [R] NinJa on Sept 26, 2018 15:36:50 GMT -5
People don’t understand the difference in injuring somebody and causing them brief pain. Morgan got kicked in the face for real, and got a concussion. Incompetence isn’t an excuse, if the Bellas can’t wrestle, then THEY are the danger to people’s health. Ruby didn’t hurt Brie, she caused her pain. Brie DID hurt Liv though You are acting like Brie pulled a Benoit on Liv. Good grief, If Bryan had injured anybody with his kicks, there'd be excuses flying. Nobody other than you has made the Brie/Benoit comparison so stop putting words in people’s mouths like you usually do whenever you’re losing a debate.
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Sept 26, 2018 15:55:51 GMT -5
I wish WWE would just come completely clean about their past and current treatment of women, and not just by constantly pushing bra and panty matches under the bus (several of them, most notably the Gauntlet match from NYR 06 were quite entertaining and furthered storylines). The problems go deeper than that, and they persist to this day. The first is that the women have no personalities. They have a look, a catchphrase to put on t shirts, and a nickname. There is nothing that differentiates the heels from the other heels, or faces from other faces, and every feud is exactly the same. The only place where they are given a personality is on Total Divas, and the girls who are not on that show (save for Charlotte Flair and now Ronda Rousey) suffer for it in the long run. The second has been the prioritization of models, homegrown talent and part timers forcing the more talented wrestlers to the back of the line. They sacrificed Luna, Jacqueline and Tori for Sable, Ivory for Miss Kitty, made Victoria lay down for Maria, Ashley, Kelly Kelly and almost every other Diva Search contestant until she had no credibility left, shoved Michelle McCool (who was NOT over, all of herreactions were piped in) down our throats for years, and are now doing the same thing with the Bellas. Instead of just letting two talented performers like, oh I don’t know, Asuka and Sasha Banks, put on excellent matches worthy of a main event spot, they are constantly handicapping them by having one of the people in the match be a complete crap show. Any match that has a Bella Twin, Carmella, Nia Jax, Lana, Alexa Bliss or Dana Brooke in it is going to instantly drop in quality, because not every one of them is created equal. It’s been a popular sentiment that EVERY WOMAN has been an integral part of the Women’s Evolution, but it’s a bold faced lie. Most have held it back tremendously because of a lack of talent and taking up a spot from someone more deserving. You think Torrie Wilson and Stacy Keibler would have had ladder matches if they were allowed to? You think Kristal Marshall, Ashley Massaro, Jillian Hall, Michelle McCool, Joy Giovanni and Candice Michelle would have had an Elimination Chamber match? None of these things started happening for the women until NXT gave WRESTLERS a chance to properly train as wrestlers and put on great matches. Paige, Emma, Charlotte, Sasha, Becky, Bayley, Asuka and Natalya deserve the credit for showing people that women could put on good matches. Unfortunately, when talking about the rise in quality of matches, you have to s*** on people like The Bella Twins because they suck in the ring and have for years. Mella is money
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Post by James St. James on Sept 26, 2018 16:28:31 GMT -5
You can make “Mella is Money” t shirts all day long and sell them for $35 at shows but that doesn’t change the fact that there is nothing remarkable about her at all.
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Post by Angel Beast on Sept 26, 2018 16:30:15 GMT -5
That's all I have to say.
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Post by TheSystem 1.5 on Sept 26, 2018 16:32:23 GMT -5
You can make “Mella is Money” t shirts all day long and sell them for $35 at shows but that doesn’t change the fact that there is nothing remarkable about her at all. I personally think Mella is a good wrestler and a really good talker. Not to mention hot.
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Post by LA Times on Sept 26, 2018 16:36:28 GMT -5
Part of this is on WWE For calling Morgan up way too early. Definitely a strong contender for the most moronic thing I'll read all year. "Damn that green Liv Morgan! It's all her fault a supposed seasoned veteran couldn't time her kicks for chit and stiffly kicked her in the face! She deserves that concussion!" Liv Morgan has also been wrestling almost every day for the past 4 years while Brie Bella who was doing this back in 2015 was fresh from maternity leave, so if there's somebody who shouldnt have been in that ring, it certain wasnt Liv Morgan
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