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Post by Gorilla on Jan 7, 2019 12:27:14 GMT -5
I'll never give Bulldog vs Bret at Summerslam 92 5 stars because it was a one man show. Bret had to carry Smiths drugged up pilled out ass through the match. Vince couldn't wait to get he IC strap off him after he pissed on his trust like that. I don't agree with this at all. You are viewing the match with the knowledge you have now from interviews that Bret and others have given. Davey Boy put on an amazing match. I remember at the time thinking how incredible the technical wrestling was from both of them. |
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Post by JokerFC on Jan 7, 2019 12:36:54 GMT -5
To each their own chief... To each their own. He was trusted with the top spot in his own back yard and that's how he repaid McMahon.
Also I'm not viewing it with bias. Many on this board will tell you I have always felt their IYH match @ Seasons Beatings was a far superior effort.
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Post by Artie Kendall on Jan 7, 2019 13:37:46 GMT -5
Love your choices. That Tito vs Perfect match was excellent, completely forgot about that one, a very underrated match in IC title history. Loved the Perfect/Bret match at KotR 93, it doesn't get the fan fare like their SummerSlam 91 match but it was a tremendous match - I even liked the interview segment just before the match when they talked about their dads. Marty vs Shawn and Bret vs the 123 Kid are two of the best matches on Raw in its early years when matches really didn't get a lot of time to be good. Both excellent. Not sure I would give the Bret vs. Diesel match a 5-star but definitely 4-star, I actually liked all 4 of their PPV matches, they really worked well together. I am a little surprised that Shawn and Mankind didn't receive a 5-star rating, I remember a lot of people raving about this match as being something completely different than what the WWF was putting on at the time, i think it was one of the first hardcore-ish style matches the WWF tried. I probably would have liked the Cage match that Diesel and Hart had, if they went with the original finish where Diesel Jackknifes Hart to make it seem like he had the match won before Taker shows up. Like I get it, they still get the same result they were after getting the build up for Taker-Diesel at Mania. I like all four there pay per view matches as well. Metlzer gave them 3.75 for King of the Ring 94, 4.25 for Royal Rumble 95, 3.5 for Survivor Series, 1.5 for In Your House. The Mankind Shawn match was rated at 4.75 by Meltzer. A lot of great matches in this thread that deserved 5 stars for sure. I'll thrown in Bret/Hakushi from the 1st IYH. Bret had a great 1995 and I would say that his PPV AVG for that year was at least a 4. He did have to deal with a match with Backlund and Yankem but that same year he had great matches with Diesel, Bulldog, Hakushi, and LaFitte which those last two don't get enough attention. Hakushi was a good story with a great match, LaFitte was a bad story with a great match. |
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Post by The Brain on Jan 7, 2019 13:43:10 GMT -5
Love your choices. That Tito vs Perfect match was excellent, completely forgot about that one, a very underrated match in IC title history. Loved the Perfect/Bret match at KotR 93, it doesn't get the fan fare like their SummerSlam 91 match but it was a tremendous match - I even liked the interview segment just before the match when they talked about their dads. Marty vs Shawn and Bret vs the 123 Kid are two of the best matches on Raw in its early years when matches really didn't get a lot of time to be good. Both excellent. Not sure I would give the Bret vs. Diesel match a 5-star but definitely 4-star, I actually liked all 4 of their PPV matches, they really worked well together. I am a little surprised that Shawn and Mankind didn't receive a 5-star rating, I remember a lot of people raving about this match as being something completely different than what the WWF was putting on at the time, i think it was one of the first hardcore-ish style matches the WWF tried. I probably would have liked the Cage match that Diesel and Hart had, if they went with the original finish where Diesel Jackknifes Hart to make it seem like he had the match won before Taker shows up. Like I get it, they still get the same result they were after getting the build up for Taker-Diesel at Mania. I like all four there pay per view matches as well. Metlzer gave them 3.75 for King of the Ring 94, 4.25 for Royal Rumble 95, 3.5 for Survivor Series, 1.5 for In Your House. The Mankind Shawn match was rated at 4.75 by Meltzer. A lot of great matches in this thread that deserved 5 stars for sure. I'll thrown in Bret/Hakushi from the 1st IYH. Bret had a great 1995 and I would say that his PPV AVG for that year was at least a 4. He did have to deal with a match with Backlund and Yankem but that same year he had great matches with Diesel, Bulldog, Hakushi, and LaFitte which those last two don't get enough attention. Hakushi was a good story with a great match, LaFitte was a bad story with a great match.Yeah it's crazy to think the whole feud was over a stolen jacket but like you said the match in the end was great. |
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Post by Gorilla on Jan 7, 2019 16:17:10 GMT -5
To each their own chief... To each their own. He was trusted with the top spot in his own back yard and that's how he repaid McMahon. Also I'm not viewing it with bias. Many on this board will tell you I have always felt their IYH match @ Seasons Beatings was a far superior effort. I just rewatched the match. Some notes: - Bret leads the whole match. You can see him giving Davey Boy instructions throughout, talking to the back of his head in rear headlocks/chinlocks - Davey Boy was probably the best athlete other than Shawn on the roster here. He takes some massive bumps for the time, and a lot of them look painful. He also shows some crazy athleticism with the forward flips and back flips. - he definitely stalls at the conclusion of the match, I agree with Bret that he didn't do a good job here. Bret had to lie in the ring for far too long before Davey Boy came over. - this is almost a perfect match to me. |
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Post by JokerFC on Jan 7, 2019 18:09:52 GMT -5
To each their own chief... To each their own. He was trusted with the top spot in his own back yard and that's how he repaid McMahon. Also I'm not viewing it with bias. Many on this board will tell you I have always felt their IYH match @ Seasons Beatings was a far superior effort. I just rewatched the match. Some notes: - Bret leads the whole match. You can see him giving Davey Boy instructions throughout, talking to the back of his head in rear headlocks/chinlocks - Davey Boy was probably the best athlete other than Shawn on the roster here. He takes some massive bumps for the time, and a lot of them look painful. He also shows some crazy athleticism with the forward flips and back flips. - he definitely stalls at the conclusion of the match, I agree with Bret that he didn't do a good job here. Bret had to lie in the ring for far too long before Davey Boy came over. - this is almost a perfect match to me. Great breakdown. I enjoy the match but it isn't a 5 Star effort for me. |
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Post by PVA on Jan 7, 2019 22:44:09 GMT -5
Who says those listed aren’t 5 star matches? Meltzer isn’t the end all be all. Matches are very subjective.
But what’s perfect match to me:
My personal favorite is WM 7 Warrior vs Savage.
The buildup started back at survivor series?
And kept building until it hit a boiling point. Also aside from Hogan there was no 2 bigger, larger then life, stars then Warrior & Macho in 1991.
I’ll have to think about it more for what else i’d add
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Post by JokerFC on Jan 8, 2019 6:50:25 GMT -5
I have to add Hogan vs Savage from WM5. I ADORE that match......LOVE IT. What a a great feud that was....I NEED an elite of Macho in that attire....NEED IT...LOL
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Post by MKSavage on Jan 8, 2019 9:01:44 GMT -5
Who says those listed aren’t 5 star matches? Meltzer isn’t the end all be all. Matches are very subjective. But what’s perfect match to me: My personal favorite is WM 7 Warrior vs Savage. The buildup started back at survivor series? And kept building until it hit a boiling point. Also aside from Hogan there was no 2 bigger, larger then life, stars then Warrior & Macho in 1991. I’ll have to think about it more for what else i’d add Agreed, the entire feud was amazing. I really felt that Savage got the best out of the Warrior. You could even tell with how the Warrior talked about Macho in his DVDs that he had a lot of respect for Savage. Even their feud and match the following year at Summer Slam 92 was pretty good too, not as good a match as WM7 but still pretty good. The build up to that match was excellent as well, playing on the match from WM7 to show that they hated each other with a passion. The interview segment with Mean Gene where they were in each other faces pretty much the whole time then Warrior politely walks Mean Gene off the interview stage because they are about to throw down. Then add in Perfect and Flair, great all around. I also liked there tag match with the Nasty Boys, very well done. |
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Post by warriorlynx on Jan 8, 2019 10:37:47 GMT -5
Like before I like to divide it by two separate eras the "Real" era where a vast majority of adults believed it was real (at least with theatrics) versus the "Work" era, where the vast majority of fans know it was a work.
I'll just post some from the "Real" Era for now (not in order):
1. Ricky Steamboat vs. Randy Savage WMIII - an obvious choice
2. Hulk Hogan vs. Randy Savage WMV - for the big story leading to it and Randy wrestling with a staph infection, which could've killed him.
3. Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage WMVII - great ending
4. Hulk Hogan vs. Big Boss Man Steel Cage matches - The handcuffs, Hogan's biggest bumps with the superplex at the top
5. Bruno Sammartino vs. Ivan Koloff for the WWWF title - Shocking title win for the USSR Ivan Koloff over the undefeated champion
6. Superstar Billy Graham vs. Dusty Rhodes in a Bullrope match - gimmicky, but hardcore before there was hardcore
7. Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect SS91 - Amazing match, loved how Hart had Perfect's shirt at the end
8. Bret Hart vs. Roddy Piper - Piper showing heel tendencies, a great match and ending
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Post by PVA on Jan 8, 2019 12:02:10 GMT -5
MKSavageGood points. Rude had some good chemistry with Warrior but rude wasnt the star power of Savage and given how warrior talked about Savage, you sense they genuinely got along and had mutual respect which led to better matches. Everything leading up to and about WM 7 match was great. And in a completely different way SummerSlam 92 buildup and match were really good too. The whole dynamic with what corner Flair & Perfect would be in etc, so you didnt know who turned heel. Even the earlier matches in 89/90 between Savage and Warrior are very entertaining even if less polished compared to Wrestlemania and SummerSlam match. Dont think ive seen a bad match between them. I really wished Warrior in 98 faced Savage in WCW instead of Hogan. I'm sure it wouldnt of been as good but couldnt be worse then Halloween Havoc. lol
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Post by Gorilla on Jan 8, 2019 13:24:34 GMT -5
MKSavageGood points. Rude had some good chemistry with Warrior but rude wasnt the star power of Savage and given how warrior talked about Savage, you sense they genuinely got along and had mutual respect which led to better matches. Everything leading up to and about WM 7 match was great. And in a completely different way SummerSlam 92 buildup and match were really good too. The whole dynamic with what corner Flair & Perfect would be in etc, so you didnt know who turned heel. Even the earlier matches in 89/90 between Savage and Warrior are very entertaining even if less polished compared to Wrestlemania and SummerSlam match. Dont think ive seen a bad match between them. I really wished Warrior in 98 faced Savage in WCW instead of Hogan. I'm sure it wouldnt of been as good but couldnt be worse then Halloween Havoc. lol I loved Rude and Warrior in the steel Cage at SummerSlam. One of my favorites. Rude hated Warrior though. Didn't he beat his a** back stage? |
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Post by The Brain on Jan 8, 2019 13:27:49 GMT -5
MKSavage Good points. Rude had some good chemistry with Warrior but rude wasnt the star power of Savage and given how warrior talked about Savage, you sense they genuinely got along and had mutual respect which led to better matches. Everything leading up to and about WM 7 match was great. And in a completely different way SummerSlam 92 buildup and match were really good too. The whole dynamic with what corner Flair & Perfect would be in etc, so you didnt know who turned heel. Even the earlier matches in 89/90 between Savage and Warrior are very entertaining even if less polished compared to Wrestlemania and SummerSlam match. Dont think ive seen a bad match between them. I really wished Warrior in 98 faced Savage in WCW instead of Hogan. I'm sure it wouldnt of been as good but couldnt be worse then Halloween Havoc. lol I loved Rude and Warrior in the steel Cage at SummerSlam. One of my favorites. Rude hated Warrior though. Didn't he beat his a** back stage? |
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Post by PVA on Jan 8, 2019 15:08:41 GMT -5
Gorilla I liked the atmosphere of 1990 but I think SS 89 was the better match. I also think the rude/warrior match on SNME in July? before Summerslam 90 was a damn good match. Yeah I heard rude had altercations with warrior among others lol but I also think a lot of confrontstions were going on back then compared to now. And no telling what is or isn’t being embellished. Warrior wasn’t the most popular guys due to his attitude, positioning in company, etc.
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Post by MKSavage on Jan 8, 2019 15:21:59 GMT -5
Gorilla I liked the atmosphere of 1990 but I think SS 89 was the better match. I also think the rude/warrior match on SNME in July? before Summerslam 90 was a damn good match. Yeah I heard rude had altercations with warrior among others lol but I also think a lot of confrontstions were going on back then compared to now. And no telling what is or isn’t being embellished. Warrior wasn’t the most popular guys due to his attitude, positioning in company, etc. I agree, I think the SSlam 89 match was their best, really good match, the only botch I remember was when Rude piledrove the Warrior - kind of looked like Rude was going to piledrive the Warrior but then held him upside down for a while, Warrior looked confused and let go of Rude's legs like he though Rude was going to lift him up higher, then all of a sudden Rude drops Warrior on his head. Weird spot. But a very good match. |
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Post by The Brain on Jan 8, 2019 15:22:42 GMT -5
Their SSlam 89 match will always be my fav but really all the matches between the two were good as Rude was one of only two guys who could carry Warrior to a good match. Savage being the other.
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Post by MKSavage on Jan 8, 2019 15:25:23 GMT -5
Their SSlam 89 match will always be my fav but really all the matches between the two were good as Rude was one of only two guys who could carry Warrior to a good match. Savage being the other. I don't know, I thought the Hogan/Warrior match at Mania was very good considering neither of those guys are known for in-ring wrestling ability. I also liked Warrior's matches with Sgt. Slaughter and with Ted DiBiase. But I agree that Rude and Savage got the best out of Warrior. |
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Post by Gorilla on Jan 8, 2019 15:28:48 GMT -5
I liked SummerSlam 90 because Rude should have won. He had Warrior beat for the championship. He really wrestled well in a cage
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Post by The Brain on Jan 8, 2019 15:31:09 GMT -5
Their SSlam 89 match will always be my fav but really all the matches between the two were good as Rude was one of only two guys who could carry Warrior to a good match. Savage being the other. I don't know, I thought the Hogan/Warrior match at Mania was very good considering neither of those guys are known for in-ring wrestling ability. I also liked Warrior's matches with Sgt. Slaughter and with Ted DiBiase. But I agree that Rude and Savage got the best out of Warrior. Hogan/Warrior at Mania VI was good no doubt. Like you said considering wrestling ability. I will not comment on the disaster that was Havoc 98 however lol. Both Sarge and DiBiase had good matches with em as well but man it was something special when he was in there with Rude and Savage. Those two really made him up his game. |
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Post by MKSavage on Jan 8, 2019 15:35:29 GMT -5
I liked SummerSlam 90 because Rude should have won. He had Warrior beat for the championship. He really wrestled well in a cageTrue, I still remember a cage match that he and Piper had, that was a pretty good match. Also, I really liked the Dangerous Alliance vs Sting's Squadron in the War Games cage. |
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