juniordaddyo
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Apr 17, 2011 7:27:39 GMT -5
Posts: 400
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Post by juniordaddyo on Jan 14, 2019 4:09:50 GMT -5
Fair play to you. The problem is, they ignore all messages whether on FB, Insta or Twitter. The images of the pages do look great, but I am still skeptical that this book will ever make it to production, especially when there are numerous people working on it from all sides of the globe supposedly! All the information they are giving us, is all over the internet anyway for us to find. WHY CAN'T THEY JUST BE OPEN AND HONEST IF THIS IS LEGIT!!!
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Post by CM Poor on Jan 14, 2019 8:12:15 GMT -5
The fact that VintageFigs1 is eating even a little bit of heat over his decision to back out of contributing to this thing is hilarious in of itself, never mind the complete cluster this whole ordeal appears to be. Taking him at his word (which is all anyone has to offer and/or accept in this case), the guy offered up his resources, asking only for credit in return. The fact that his story about hitting a brick wall in terms of communication and cited credit from the organizers of this project corroborates the difficulties others have expressed with them only lends the favor to his side of the story. Regardless of what he offered toward the project or what he asked in return, the onus was never on him to deliver anything more than what he'd originally agreed upon, and the fact that the organizers didn't hold up their end of the bargain leaves him well within his right to back out in full. As an individual, he owes the willful backers of this project nothing. If the organizers invoked his name (and they basically did, including details that, to the best of my knowledge, only he could provide), then that's on them. He shouldn't be on the hook on account of their unwillingness to play softball in terms of quid pro quo. Invoking his podcast by saying he owes his listeners is just cringe-worthy.
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jan 14, 2019 11:37:58 GMT -5
The creators of this project have been/are in the wrong on this; there is no disputing that. The way in which Matt is choosing to end his relationship with them (if he does do that) is my only cause for concern as I’m only wanting the best possible outcome for the backers of this project. As far as bringing up his podcast let it be clear: the MWF podcast used their social media accounts to announce Matt was backing out of this project. It wasn’t just blindly brought up by me, after all, that is how I first heard about this news. There could be ramifications for that (pitchforks and rabble rabble) from people who follow the podcast. It wasn’t clear if an amicable solution was beyond the realm of possibility. The only “heat” over this has to do with the makers of the book (or scammers of that turns out to be the case). The part involving Matt was a request for further understanding regarding this matter. Sometimes it is best to have more information before you judge a situation such as this.
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Post by Ruby Fusion on Jan 14, 2019 11:40:41 GMT -5
I may be confused by your response or you may be confused but... I was never officially attached to this project. I didn’t organize it. I didn’t promote it. All I did was allow my photos to be involved. The warning was already given about the credit. I am out. I feel sorry for all who backed. This seems like a huge scam. I was even contacted by the “writer” of this “book” who claims he was duped by Kevin. He also called it a scam. I think you are confused. The part you played is clear in that you were just helping out with generously providing photos and information. What wasn’t clear or public were any conversations or DMs you had with the makers of this book. You have a lot to be upset or frustrated about. At times, I too have thought this might be a scam. However, this would have to be extremely elaborate for such little profit. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility, but my fear is that if they are legit (but unprofessional/disorganized), then we all lose. If your suspicions are correct, then well, a number of us will have already lost out and a public smear campaign should commence. Maybe it would be helpful if you and others provided more information or proof as to why you believe this is a scam. By now it should be clear it is a scam! If you're gonna write a book and use someone else's pictures you give credit, period! You certainly don't advertise said pictures in your kickstart-campaign without giving credit; that's misleading your backers. The backers better ask for a refund. Either you're serious and give credit or you quit the project. The "there's a misunderstanding"-excuse is just weak. Many books exist for collectors, but one thing is always a basic rule: give proper credit!
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Hitman Bono
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
The Sunday Jeff of it all...
Joined on: Apr 2, 2002 23:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by Hitman Bono on Jan 14, 2019 11:58:44 GMT -5
So, someone is trying to make a Hasbro history book, but they don't own a full set?
And if that is the case, people gave the guy who didn't have a full Hasbro collection money to make a book?
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jan 14, 2019 12:18:09 GMT -5
I think you are confused. The part you played is clear in that you were just helping out with generously providing photos and information. What wasn’t clear or public were any conversations or DMs you had with the makers of this book. You have a lot to be upset or frustrated about. At times, I too have thought this might be a scam. However, this would have to be extremely elaborate for such little profit. It isn’t out of the realm of possibility, but my fear is that if they are legit (but unprofessional/disorganized), then we all lose. If your suspicions are correct, then well, a number of us will have already lost out and a public smear campaign should commence. Maybe it would be helpful if you and others provided more information or proof as to why you believe this is a scam. By now it should be clear it is a scam! If you're gonna write a book and use someone else's pictures you give credit, period! You certainly don't advertise said pictures in your kickstart-campaign without giving credit; that's misleading your backers. The backers better ask for a refund. Either you're serious and give credit or you quit the project. The "there's a misunderstanding"-excuse is just weak. Many books exist for collectors, but one thing is always a basic rule: give proper credit! Nobody disputes that was the wrong thing to do. There appeared to be a campaign to right those wrongs and that seemed to have been the case until just recently. If you were to play Devil’s advocate, I could see a situation in which multiple parties were collaborating on a project and the person writing is not the same person doing graphic design. There should be notes in every case to only release “sample pages” of the book that are either original or credited. If the graphic designer had yet to add credit, that would be one thing. But I’m with the majority who question why these uncredited owners weren’t even tagged or thanked in the posting of said samples. Again, only time will tell if this was a scam or how big of a scam it really is. One thing is for sure: a statement should be made by the creator(s) of this project to address the criticism they are facing.
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Post by CM Poor on Jan 14, 2019 13:36:37 GMT -5
The creators of this project have been/are in the wrong on this; there is no disputing that. The way in which Matt is choosing to end his relationship with them (if he does do that) is my only cause for concern as I’m only wanting the best possible outcome for the backers of this project. As far as bringing up his podcast let it be clear: the MWF podcast used their social media accounts to announce Matt was backing out of this project. It wasn’t just blindly brought up by me, after all, that is how I first heard about this news. There could be ramifications for that (pitchforks and rabble rabble) from people who follow the podcast. It wasn’t clear if an amicable solution was beyond the realm of possibility. The only “heat” over this has to do with the makers of the book (or scammers of that turns out to be the case). The part involving Matt was a request for further understanding regarding this matter. Sometimes it is best to have more information before you judge a situation such as this. Any Kickstarter campaign carries the potential for financial risk. Plenty have pulled exponentially more than this project has, never to be heard from again. I trust that if VintageFigs1 has been personally invested in this project for over a year and is only now backing out, then he likely feels that an amicable solution is beyond the realm of possibility. Even if it isn't, he still has no obligation to any party involved in this mess, regardless of his personal profile/standing in the world of figure collecting/method of announcing his withdrawal from the project. The onus of delivering the best possible outcome for the backers of this project lies solely and exclusively at the feet of the organizers. If they fail to deliver on the "minimal" risk laid out in their project outline (the laughable, in hindsight " We've made some great contacts within the figure community and with former employees of Hasbro. The only real risk to the project is not reaching the funding we need to get the book to print."), then shame on them, and nobody else.
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tibbo
Superstar
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Post by tibbo on Jan 15, 2019 12:11:28 GMT -5
Surely people should have been wary when someone tried to produce a book for personal profit containing images which they don't own, whether they be taken from individual collectors, or the copyrighted images of WWF/E and Hasbro etc? All of the info in there will already be common knowledge or previously discussed on here anyway.... I just don't get it
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China Claus
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I can feeel your sensitivity
Joined on: Apr 17, 2012 20:05:15 GMT -5
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Post by China Claus on Jan 15, 2019 15:50:57 GMT -5
Surely people should have been wary when someone tried to produce a book for personal profit containing images which they don't own, whether they be taken from individual collectors, or the copyrighted images of WWF/E and Hasbro etc? All of the info in there will already be common knowledge or previously discussed on here anyway.... I just don't get it I wholeheartedly agree. The internet is very informative, and most of this proposed project seems to be readily available at anyone's fingertips. While it's a cool concept, it doesn't seem like anything other than a collection of knowledge that is basically already known in some form. What isn't cool is the seemingly numerous contributors that have thus far went uncredited. I would like to assume this wouldn't be an issue with the release, but from what I'm seeing, who knows when and if? It's always great to have exclusive insight, but at what and whom's expense? Let's just hope this works out for EVERYONE involved, and that it is indeed a reputable project, either for anyone interested, the one's that have contributed their unique resources, or those that are financially backing this. And if this does end up being some sort of scam, let's hope those accountable will be held liable.
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Post by stc13 on Jan 15, 2019 19:50:33 GMT -5
Surely people should have been wary when someone tried to produce a book for personal profit containing images which they don't own, whether they be taken from individual collectors, or the copyrighted images of WWF/E and Hasbro etc? All of the info in there will already be common knowledge or previously discussed on here anyway.... I just don't get it I wholeheartedly agree. The internet is very informative, and most of this proposed project seems to be readily available at anyone's fingertips. While it's a cool concept, it doesn't seem like anything other than a collection of knowledge that is basically already known in some form. What isn't cool is the seemingly numerous contributors that have thus far went uncredited. I would like to assume this wouldn't be an issue with the release, but from what I'm seeing, who knows when and if? It's always great to have exclusive insight, but at what and whom's expense? Let's just hope this works out for EVERYONE involved, and that it is indeed a reputable project, either for anyone interested, the one's that have contributed their unique resources, or those that are financially backing this. And if this does end up being some sort of scam, let's hope those accountable will be held liable. Agreed. There are a lot of fantastic (and well selling) books that use public source images, archival images, etc. It's all about what kind of research and information can you bring to the table. I haven't followed this project closely enough to know the specifics. But writing a book, regardless of where you source information, is a daunting task. Unless the author has some past publishing experience, there's a good chance they bit off more than they could chew (or probably more accurately just didn't know how to judge realistic timelines and workloads), and may have put the cart before the horse in securing commitments before producing much finished work. With that said, I can't imagine paying to fund a project without either significant completed work or a proven track record of delivering, just as you wouldn't find a publisher willing to pick up a book without seeing a draft or an author with a proven track record. Hopefully for everyone involved a solid product is delivered, even if it does end up being behind the promised schedule.
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jan 15, 2019 22:03:02 GMT -5
I backed the book early on (prior to hearing anything about stolen images or anything that was less than reputable). People who are saying “you could just read about it all here!” are fools who have completely missed the point and a book would be lost on them regardless of the subject.
As an update to those who are watching this: The Hasbro Book people have completely ignored any comments about this controversy on social media. They post about things unrelated to the book. Looks like it might be time to take action.
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tibbo
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Post by tibbo on Jan 16, 2019 6:34:26 GMT -5
Unless they have the relevant permissions/rights from Hasbro and WWE to use their trademarked materials, it was never going to be more than photos of the toys and a bootlegged collection of information found here was it? I'm not sure it could have ever been reputable really.
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Post by CM Poor on Jan 16, 2019 11:08:05 GMT -5
I backed the book early on (prior to hearing anything about stolen images or anything that was less than reputable). People who are saying “you could just read about it all here!” are fools who have completely missed the point and a book would be lost on them regardless of the subject. As an update to those who are watching this: The Hasbro Book people have completely ignored any comments about this controversy on social media. They post about things unrelated to the book. Looks like it might be time to take action. I think there's a lofty bit of stretching needed to go from 'people who don't appreciate the interest some may have in a collection of topical information that is readily available through alternate means' to 'fools who don't read'. Everyone's mileage is going to vary on any sort of topic of interest. I'm big into Broadway musicals. I have a couple of tomes that contain the stage script as well as author's notes and background information. It's all information that's freely available on sites like Genius, etc., but it's dear enough to me that I appreciate having the brick of pages of my shelf to peruse in a different setting. You, clearly, have a similar appreciation for WWF Hasbros, but someone who doesn't who might disregard the interest some may have in a similar tome is hardly indicative of their appreciation or comprehension of the written word.
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tibbo
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Post by tibbo on Jan 16, 2019 14:09:26 GMT -5
I think there's a lofty bit of stretching needed to go from 'people who don't appreciate the interest some may have in a collection of topical information that is readily available through alternate means' to 'fools who don't read'. Everyone's mileage is going to vary on any sort of topic of interest. I'm big into Broadway musicals. I have a couple of tomes that contain the stage script as well as author's notes and background information. It's all information that's freely available on sites like Genius, etc., but it's dear enough to me that I appreciate having the brick of pages of my shelf to peruse in a different setting. You, clearly, have a similar appreciation for WWF Hasbros, but someone who doesn't who might disregard the interest some may have in a similar tome is hardly indicative of their appreciation or comprehension of the written word. Beautifully put sir. <doffs hat>
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jan 16, 2019 17:45:54 GMT -5
I backed the book early on (prior to hearing anything about stolen images or anything that was less than reputable). People who are saying “you could just read about it all here!” are fools who have completely missed the point and a book would be lost on them regardless of the subject. As an update to those who are watching this: The Hasbro Book people have completely ignored any comments about this controversy on social media. They post about things unrelated to the book. Looks like it might be time to take action. I think there's a lofty bit of stretching needed to go from 'people who don't appreciate the interest some may have in a collection of topical information that is readily available through alternate means' to 'fools who don't read'. Everyone's mileage is going to vary on any sort of topic of interest. I'm big into Broadway musicals. I have a couple of tomes that contain the stage script as well as author's notes and background information. It's all information that's freely available on sites like Genius, etc., but it's dear enough to me that I appreciate having the brick of pages of my shelf to peruse in a different setting. You, clearly, have a similar appreciation for WWF Hasbros, but someone who doesn't who might disregard the interest some may have in a similar tome is hardly indicative of their appreciation or comprehension of the written word.
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Post by LA Times on Jan 16, 2019 19:22:07 GMT -5
What is this book supposed to be, a visual checklist with commentary?
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@Chair.Shot
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Post by @Chair.Shot on Jan 16, 2019 20:25:17 GMT -5
It was supposed to detail each figure of the line with any known factoid or speculation. It was also going to include stories from collectors, interviews from former Hasbro employees, mention of things like 2Ups, prototypes, unreleased series, etc. Each section would have photos of figures on card and out of package...so a nice little accompaniment to a collection with the possibility to learn something or remember things fondly.
That was the idea, anyway.
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Post by Ruby Fusion on Jan 17, 2019 7:15:04 GMT -5
I backed the book early on (prior to hearing anything about stolen images or anything that was less than reputable). People who are saying “you could just read about it all here!” are fools who have completely missed the point and a book would be lost on them regardless of the subject. As an update to those who are watching this: The Hasbro Book people have completely ignored any comments about this controversy on social media. They post about things unrelated to the book. Looks like it might be time to take action. I think there's a lofty bit of stretching needed to go from 'people who don't appreciate the interest some may have in a collection of topical information that is readily available through alternate means' to 'fools who don't read'. Everyone's mileage is going to vary on any sort of topic of interest. I'm big into Broadway musicals. I have a couple of tomes that contain the stage script as well as author's notes and background information. It's all information that's freely available on sites like Genius, etc., but it's dear enough to me that I appreciate having the brick of pages of my shelf to peruse in a different setting. You, clearly, have a similar appreciation for WWF Hasbros, but someone who doesn't who might disregard the interest some may have in a similar tome is hardly indicative of their appreciation or comprehension of the written word. True. Now in this internet era most info is readily available, it doesn't mean books no longer have a place in this world. However this Hasbro book is just way too amateuristic by some overenthusiastic collectors who thought (yeah, it doesn't matter what they were thinking! ) they'd bundle all this free info into a book, stealing pictures along the way and getting funded for stealing. This book, by these "authors" is a lost cause. Things change when say Hasbromaniac would write this book with help/cooperation of Zack (since he actually owns most interesting prototypes): then you know the book will be of quality.
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Post by whossideareyouon on Jan 18, 2019 4:58:48 GMT -5
I think there's a lofty bit of stretching needed to go from 'people who don't appreciate the interest some may have in a collection of topical information that is readily available through alternate means' to 'fools who don't read'. Everyone's mileage is going to vary on any sort of topic of interest. I'm big into Broadway musicals. I have a couple of tomes that contain the stage script as well as author's notes and background information. It's all information that's freely available on sites like Genius, etc., but it's dear enough to me that I appreciate having the brick of pages of my shelf to peruse in a different setting. You, clearly, have a similar appreciation for WWF Hasbros, but someone who doesn't who might disregard the interest some may have in a similar tome is hardly indicative of their appreciation or comprehension of the written word. True. Now in this internet era most info is readily available, it doesn't mean books no longer have a place in this world. However this Hasbro book is just way too amateuristic by some overenthusiastic collectors who thought (yeah, it doesn't matter what they were thinking! ) they'd bundle all this free info into a book, stealing pictures along the way and getting funded for stealing. This book, by these "authors" is a lost cause. Things change when say Hasbromaniac would write this book with help/cooperation of Zack (since he actually owns most interesting prototypes): then you know the book will be of quality. Nail on head for me. It should have been great. It isn't. That's a shame. To add to that; I realise the pages they've released are not finalised; but you just have to look at the style of writing, the grammar, the spelling and so on...to see this isn't professional enough to be considered anything but an amateur attempt to collate WWF Hasbro information. Now, I'm not gonna call it a scam, I'm not sure that is correct....but it's certainly a project that I can see failing with people losing their backing money. I have found the author on his social media to be rather snappy and sometimes rude to people as well. It all doesn't bode well. However, I do salute the attempt to bring everything together in printed form, and to the level 'I think' is trying to be achieved. So many books like this simply touch the surface of a hobby or topic. Whilst those books still have their place, a true fan of something ends up feeling that the product is incomplete. Yes, this info is 'free' on the internet...but then so is nearly everything these days. If that was a reason not to create this book, then there is no reason to create any reference book (on any topic). I love a printed book - it feels nice in the hand and feels like a part of your collection. I, myself, have many reference books on my hobbies (despite the internet being more up to date and obviously a better resource). It's also a damn shame the way the photo and credit information has seemingly been handled. That is obviously a huge, HUGE mistake on the author's part. There is no defence for that. Again, if this is (or at least aims to be) a complete guide to WWF Hasbro, then its so upsetting that some of the biggest and most prominent collectors have been burnt by the author, with some publicly calling it a scam. It's reached that level of derision. The Story of Zak Ryder itself, a professional wrestler no less, who loves WWF Hasbro figures, and has one of the most complete collections should be a chapter in the book itself. I mean, what a story. I do hope the book comes out. I will 100% buy it, as another part of my Hasbro collection. I'm glad I didn't back it though, I think that decision was a good one.
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hasbrolex
Jobber
Joined on: May 6, 2018 19:06:37 GMT -5
Posts: 40
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Post by hasbrolex on Jan 18, 2019 5:14:45 GMT -5
I think they are doing a thorough job just don’t have experience in doing this type of project. Hopefully when the book comes out, all the pics will be credited.
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