Cameron Stone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 16, 2013 18:16:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,014
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Post by Cameron Stone on Feb 5, 2019 15:21:49 GMT -5
E-Fedding is indeed dying. And as someone who spent most of my time stuck in the mid tier bubble of too good to be a constant curtain jerker, but not good enough to stand in the main event, I can say the biggest issue for new people is losing. Even if they aren't good enough to really win, why would someone want to stay and lose all the time, and watch the same 2-4 people always win, always be champ, etc? It's hard to stick around in those cases. That's a contributing factor to why I quit, let alone new people A) Right now, the hill for newcomers is astronomical, but it's sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy that's directly correlative to the sheer lack of numbers. When the roster is as slim as it's been for some time now, there's nowhere else to slot a potential newcomer than the bottom of the experienced barrel, which is unfortunately going to be basic trial by fire, as most of the regulars here are perfectly top notch in their own right. The hope, I'd think, is that you garner the type of folk like theicwguy, who takes a licking and keeps on ticking, presumably because he's having fun here and sees the value in creativity and slow-burn improvement over immediate wins and losses. Perhaps there's validity in that it should be something of a selling point that "yes, you'll probably lose. Yes, you're going to face writers way more experienced than yourself, but, if you continue to stick it out and heed the advice of others ( presuming more than the owners start R&Ring every RP!!!!!), then you'll improve and start winning, etc. That being said... B) I've totally got to call you on your self anecdote. As Cameron Stone, from the RPs I could still find, I've got you at a 5-6 record out of 11, which is just under .500, and not at all indicative of your real output/opposing factors, given that you'd put forth three self-admitted participation pieces to account for half of those losses. Apart from that, you had three main events to your name (two of which brought out the aforementioned participation efforts, including one at SuperBrawl), a smattering of title shots for your efforts (including an International win over Sam Ahriman), and your losses with effort came at the hands of Kyzer (as Tugarin Zmey), and the pairing of Josh Dean & Drakz. Even setting aside all measurable statistics, you were pretty routinely involved in angles of consequence that anyone looking to dive in fresh would have rightly been envious of, and I think it would be safe to say that your name would easily come up for discussion often enough, were someone to summarize the period of time you ran your primary on the reg. I appreciate the thought. I think I was good enough to make things interesting and shake stuff up, not really hold a top spot though. The WFWFs Foley so to speak. Me being in main event angles was all on Shawn and Drakz giving me those chances. And I think lots of it had to do with the creative aspect I brought to storylines and segment ideas. I got the impression people generally enjoyed working with and off me due to how I helped map out the Angles
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Cameron Stone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 16, 2013 18:16:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,014
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Post by Cameron Stone on Feb 5, 2019 15:28:23 GMT -5
E-Fedding is indeed dying. And as someone who spent most of my time stuck in the mid tier bubble of too good to be a constant curtain jerker, but not good enough to stand in the main event, I can say the biggest issue for new people is losing. Even if they aren't good enough to really win, why would someone want to stay and lose all the time, and watch the same 2-4 people always win, always be champ, etc? It's hard to stick around in those cases. That's a contributing factor to why I quit, let alone new people I see some of your points and agree. It is daunting to start out in the basement and try to work your way to the penthouse, particularly with writers of the caliber of Drakz or veronicaaaahhhh standing in your path. If someone comes here and wants to be the top dog they're going to have to work for it and also hope for a bad day from the current top dogs. If winning championships is the primary goal of a new writer then they could lose interest in the face of such competition. We can only do so much to help, such as offering constructive advice for improvement and creating the lower/mid card titles so everybody has something to fight for and an accolade to brag about when they do win a belt. There are other e-feds out there where booking for pushes and title runs are predetermined based on participation, quantity, and/or longevity. As CM Poor has noted, these feds can also produce a lot of drek that is simply not fun to read. If I have the pulse of the active members right, that's not a direction people would ever be interested in here. The heart of the WFWF is its competitive aspect. It's not for everybody, I get that. But when we do get a new writer who is up for the challenge, watching them rise up the ranks is its own reward. I agree to a point. I just also think it's difficult to get someone to build thenselves without a major win. You can only say "I'm getting better I'll get them next time" so many times. I just think there's creative, never used methods to satisfy both things occasionally, but people here are SO obsessed with never having a loss on their record it hinders them. Example. Biggger name against a lower name. Lower name puts out a good piece, but it just can't compare. Do the finish on the match where the higher up guys next opponent interferes and costs them the win. It not only builds that feud, but it gives fuel to the lower guy. But people here for the most part just aren't willing to EVER do something like that. There are ways.
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Post by CM Poor on Feb 5, 2019 15:49:21 GMT -5
I see some of your points and agree. It is daunting to start out in the basement and try to work your way to the penthouse, particularly with writers of the caliber of Drakz or veronicaaaahhhh standing in your path. If someone comes here and wants to be the top dog they're going to have to work for it and also hope for a bad day from the current top dogs. If winning championships is the primary goal of a new writer then they could lose interest in the face of such competition. We can only do so much to help, such as offering constructive advice for improvement and creating the lower/mid card titles so everybody has something to fight for and an accolade to brag about when they do win a belt. There are other e-feds out there where booking for pushes and title runs are predetermined based on participation, quantity, and/or longevity. As CM Poor has noted, these feds can also produce a lot of drek that is simply not fun to read. If I have the pulse of the active members right, that's not a direction people would ever be interested in here. The heart of the WFWF is its competitive aspect. It's not for everybody, I get that. But when we do get a new writer who is up for the challenge, watching them rise up the ranks is its own reward. I agree to a point. I just also think it's difficult to get someone to build thenselves without a major win. You can only say "I'm getting better I'll get them next time" so many times. I just think there's creative, never used methods to satisfy both things occasionally, but people here are SO obsessed with never having a loss on their record it hinders them. Example. Biggger name against a lower name. Lower name puts out a good piece, but it just can't compare. Do the finish on the match where the higher up guys next opponent interferes and costs them the win. It not only builds that feud, but it gives fuel to the lower guy. But people here for the most part just aren't willing to EVER do something like that. There are ways. Wow - and I thought I was hyperbolic. That's a pretty damn lofty indictment against the user base here that seems like it would be pretty tough to back with any tangible evidence.
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Post by Markw on Feb 5, 2019 15:57:06 GMT -5
I see some of your points and agree. It is daunting to start out in the basement and try to work your way to the penthouse, particularly with writers of the caliber of Drakz or veronicaaaahhhh standing in your path. If someone comes here and wants to be the top dog they're going to have to work for it and also hope for a bad day from the current top dogs. If winning championships is the primary goal of a new writer then they could lose interest in the face of such competition. We can only do so much to help, such as offering constructive advice for improvement and creating the lower/mid card titles so everybody has something to fight for and an accolade to brag about when they do win a belt. There are other e-feds out there where booking for pushes and title runs are predetermined based on participation, quantity, and/or longevity. As CM Poor has noted, these feds can also produce a lot of drek that is simply not fun to read. If I have the pulse of the active members right, that's not a direction people would ever be interested in here. The heart of the WFWF is its competitive aspect. It's not for everybody, I get that. But when we do get a new writer who is up for the challenge, watching them rise up the ranks is its own reward. I agree to a point. I just also think it's difficult to get someone to build thenselves without a major win. You can only say "I'm getting better I'll get them next time" so many times. I just think there's creative, never used methods to satisfy both things occasionally, but people here are SO obsessed with never having a loss on their record it hinders them. Example. Biggger name against a lower name. Lower name puts out a good piece, but it just can't compare. Do the finish on the match where the higher up guys next opponent interferes and costs them the win. It not only builds that feud, but it gives fuel to the lower guy. But people here for the most part just aren't willing to EVER do something like that. There are ways. I really don't think that's fair at all.
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Cameron Stone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 16, 2013 18:16:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,014
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Post by Cameron Stone on Feb 5, 2019 16:12:52 GMT -5
In fairness I said the most part. Definitely are those who would be willing to do it, and have. But I don't think it's a stretch to say many of the people regularly at the top would have straight up refused to lose a match even in those parameters, if they didn't lose the RP battle.
I've had people work with me though. Drakz is my favorite example of that. He didn't have to go along with our 2/3 falls match with me getting the first fall for example. But he did, and I was able to coast off that for months.
It just feels like there's a "I won, therefore I win" mentality here. With isn't necessarily a wrong thing. But it does hurt things in regards to typically wrestling booking. Which is why I always preferred the Sims board to here, and E-Fedding in general. I could never fully enjoy or commit to here. Because I enjoy developing a story more. And e--fedding is basically in a nutshell a selfish, all about me type of place by design. And it just gets old incredibly fast to me. Interest wanes quickly.
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Post by CM Poor on Feb 5, 2019 16:24:21 GMT -5
In fairness I said the most part. Definitely are those who would be willing to do it, and have. But I don't think it's a stretch to say many of the people regularly at the top would have straight up refused to lose a match even in those parameters, if they didn't lose the RP battle. I've had people work with me though. Drakz is my favorite example of that. He didn't have to go along with our 2/3 falls match with me getting the first fall for example. But he did, and I was able to coast off that for months. It just feels like there's a "I won, therefore I win" mentality here. With isn't necessarily a wrong thing. But it does hurt things in regards to typically wrestling booking. Which is why I always preferred the Sims board to here, and E-Fedding in general. I could never fully enjoy or commit to here. Because I enjoy developing a story more. And e--fedding is basically in a nutshell a selfish, all about me type of place by design. And it just gets old incredibly fast to me. Interest wanes quickly. Yeah - it's a competitive activity. Imagine. You're still condemning the top writers here for something they haven't done. I've been part of this fed, in particular, off and on, since 2004. I've been all over the card, from the bottom up. I've written matches, judged matches, served on "judging committees" (JFC), won matches, lost matches, no-showed matches, and in the past year, I've even booked matches. In fifteen years, I can't recall a single instance of someone who has won a match being asked to take the fall for the sake of their opponent having put forth a "good enough" showing. Now, the lot of them are suddenly a bunch of self-absorbed, unflinching overachievers based on this presumptuous notion that they'd never go along with an off the cuff booking method, the potential need for which having only just recently become particularly dire? That's a load of crap.
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Cameron Stone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 16, 2013 18:16:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,014
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Post by Cameron Stone on Feb 5, 2019 16:30:46 GMT -5
Ok then. If that's how you feel. It's my opinion. I think half the stuff you've spewed and your general attitude over the years has been a load of crap. That's why I generally took as much effort to never work with you as I could.
And I'm not saying all the time. But the odd little wrinkle like that would add a spark here and there.
But hey, keep tooting the horn of the place that's basically been in constant life support for like 8 years with thr occasional 3 month flurry of activity, and otherwise mostly the exact same handful of people always here and as champ, hitting those big moment matches and feuds based off things that happened 8 years ago that no new person gives a single crap about. Talk about your ten year histories in your RPs that have absolutely no bearing on your opponent, except giving you way more to work with than them, and then chastising then for having no depth when they can't possibly compare up to that.
Sounds good Chief
God I'm really remembering how miserable this place is. I'm actually glad Reina bailed on me and killed our program.
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Post by Markw on Feb 5, 2019 16:49:45 GMT -5
Ok then. If that's how you feel. It's my opinion. I think half the stuff you've spewed and your general attitude over the years has been a load of crap. That's why I generally took as much effort to never work with you as I could. And I'm not saying all the time. But the odd little wrinkle like that would add a spark here and there. But hey, keep tooting the horn of the place that's basically been in constant life support for like 8 years with thr occasional 3 month flurry of activity, and otherwise mostly the exact same handful of people always here and as champ, hitting those big moment matches and feuds based off things that happened 8 years ago that no new person gives a single crap about. Talk about your ten year histories in your RPs that have absolutely no bearing on your opponent, except giving you way more to work with than them, and then chastising then for having no depth when they can't possibly compare up to that. Sounds good Chief God I'm really remembering how miserable this place is. I'm actually glad Reina bailed on me and killed our program. Surely you can see the difference between say Dex, who was put on top before he was ready, and Shawn/Trace/Dean who started in the house shows and lost matches on their way up the ladder. Having the chase to get there made them better writers, made their work more entertaining and increased everyone's enjoyment. And they got there because they stuck with it through the losses. Whereas our most noteworthy attempt at what you're suggesting was a disaster that hurt the potential writer we had. As someone who has had a pretty similar trajectory to yourself (and I think a pretty similar writing style for a lot of the time), I find the stance that losing put you off hugely depressing. Yes it's about telling stories, but not knowing the result beforehand in a competitive environment increases creativity, it forces you and the people you're working with to plan for multiple different potential directions depending on results and I think that's usually great for the process. The chase IS the fun, losing every week, taking on the helpful feedback you get from the people who have already been through that process, and becoming a better writer and story teller - for me, that is a huge part of what makes this hobby so enjoyable. If Trace had given me a win when I first took him on as Bishop it would have meant infinitely less than eventually doing it the fifth or sixth time. It's like your Dad letting you beat him at chess when you're five - leaves you with no way of knowing, or chance to take pleasure from, eventually doing it yourself. And that's why Dex shouldn't have been champion, Drakz should be winning every week until someone gets that good, and you should think more positively about the place.
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Post by CM Poor on Feb 5, 2019 16:51:09 GMT -5
Ok then. If that's how you feel. It's my opinion. I think half the stuff you've spewed and your general attitude over the years has been a load of crap. That's why I generally took as much effort to never work with you as I could. And I'm not saying all the time. But the odd little wrinkle like that would add a spark here and there. But hey, keep tooting the horn of the place that's basically been in constant life support for like 8 years with thr occasional 3 month flurry of activity, and otherwise mostly the exact same handful of people always here and as champ, hitting those big moment matches and feuds based off things that happened 8 years ago that no new person gives a single crap about. Talk about your ten year histories in your RPs that have absolutely no bearing on your opponent, except giving you way more to work with than them, and then chastising then for having no depth when they can't possibly compare up to that. Sounds good Chief God I'm really remembering how miserable this place is. I'm actually glad Reina bailed on me and killed our program. WFWF is awful, and you very clearly hate it. You should definitely find their 'state of things' thread and toss out a couple of thinly veiled sleights against their stalwart user base disguised as suggestions meant to guide it toward improvement. For someone who has (several times now) come at me for my sh*tty attitude (which, to date, I've never once denied), this post here sure does take a gigantic dump on the perfectly pleasant pairing of King Richius and @ballparkb0b, who are putting forth as much of themselves as possible to keep this place running and make it an engaging and welcoming environment. If that's all you've come out of the woods to bring to the table, then I'm glad Reina bailed and denied us that, too.
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Post by King Richius on Feb 5, 2019 16:51:21 GMT -5
In fairness I said the most part. Definitely are those who would be willing to do it, and have. But I don't think it's a stretch to say many of the people regularly at the top would have straight up refused to lose a match even in those parameters, if they didn't lose the RP battle. I've had people work with me though. Drakz is my favorite example of that. He didn't have to go along with our 2/3 falls match with me getting the first fall for example. But he did, and I was able to coast off that for months. It just feels like there's a "I won, therefore I win" mentality here. With isn't necessarily a wrong thing. But it does hurt things in regards to typically wrestling booking. Which is why I always preferred the Sims board to here, and E-Fedding in general. I could never fully enjoy or commit to here. Because I enjoy developing a story more. And e--fedding is basically in a nutshell a selfish, all about me type of place by design. And it just gets old incredibly fast to me. Interest wanes quickly. I think the bolded statement is at the core of the issue. The WFWF isn't a fantasy fed where we book for the results that make for the best story or to boost someone's sagging confidence. It's a competitive writing fed. The competitive aspect is the impetus for each and every one of us to improve until we can go toe to toe with the top dogs. To be honest, if fantasy booking is somebody's thing, there are other places to better do that. If I had been handed a "participation trophy" win over Trace Demon in our first match, then the wins that I earned over him in our second and third matches wouldn't have meant nearly as much to me as a writer. One day I hope to get that same feeling after knocking off Drakz and Kyzer. They push me to get better and when the hard work eventually pays off, it's a great feeling. If I lose, well I know I tried my best and will still hold my head high as I move on to my next match. That's the nature of our game. Do I wish we had more writers? Absolutely yes! Why? Because odds are they all wouldn't be the next Drakz. It would be nice to have a diverse level of writers so we could have great feuds with unpredictable outcomes at all levels of the card. Great stories tell themselves when the competition is evenly matched. Right now we have a top heavy roster so it's hard as hell for someone new to break in but not impossible. Look at Mesh. If we can get a bunch of new people to join at the same time and stick around for a while, the undercard suddenly becomes much more interesting giving them all time to develop as writers and have fun doing it.
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Post by CM Poor on Feb 5, 2019 16:57:12 GMT -5
In fairness I said the most part. Definitely are those who would be willing to do it, and have. But I don't think it's a stretch to say many of the people regularly at the top would have straight up refused to lose a match even in those parameters, if they didn't lose the RP battle. I've had people work with me though. Drakz is my favorite example of that. He didn't have to go along with our 2/3 falls match with me getting the first fall for example. But he did, and I was able to coast off that for months. It just feels like there's a "I won, therefore I win" mentality here. With isn't necessarily a wrong thing. But it does hurt things in regards to typically wrestling booking. Which is why I always preferred the Sims board to here, and E-Fedding in general. I could never fully enjoy or commit to here. Because I enjoy developing a story more. And e--fedding is basically in a nutshell a selfish, all about me type of place by design. And it just gets old incredibly fast to me. Interest wanes quickly. I think the bolded statement is at the core of the issue. The WFWF isn't a fantasy fed where we book for the results that make for the best story or to boost someone's sagging confidence. It's a competitive writing fed. The competitive aspect is the impetus for each and every one of us to improve until we can go toe to toe with the top dogs. To be honest, if fantasy booking is somebody's thing, there are other places to better do that. If I had been handed a "participation trophy" win over Trace Demon in our first match, then the wins that I earned over him in our second and third matches wouldn't have meant nearly as much to me as a writer. One day I hope to get that same feeling after knocking off Drakz and Kyzer. They push me to get better and when the hard work eventually pays off, it's a great feeling. If I lose, well I know I tried my best and will still hold my head high as I move on to my next match. That's the nature of our game. Do I wish we had more writers? Absolutely yes! Why? Because odds are they all wouldn't be the next Drakz. It would be nice to have a diverse level of writers so we could have great feuds with unpredictable outcomes at all levels of the card. Great stories tell themselves when the competition is evenly matched. Right now we have a top heavy roster so it's hard as hell for someone new to break in but not impossible. Look at Mesh. If we can get a bunch of new people to join at the same time and stick around for a while, the undercard suddenly becomes much more interesting giving them all time to develop as writers and have fun doing it. Took me some five or six years to finally get an edge on Drakz, and he still contends (not entirely wrongly) that there's an asterisk next to it.
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Cameron Stone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 16, 2013 18:16:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,014
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Post by Cameron Stone on Feb 5, 2019 16:59:41 GMT -5
Ok then. If that's how you feel. It's my opinion. I think half the stuff you've spewed and your general attitude over the years has been a load of crap. That's why I generally took as much effort to never work with you as I could. And I'm not saying all the time. But the odd little wrinkle like that would add a spark here and there. But hey, keep tooting the horn of the place that's basically been in constant life support for like 8 years with thr occasional 3 month flurry of activity, and otherwise mostly the exact same handful of people always here and as champ, hitting those big moment matches and feuds based off things that happened 8 years ago that no new person gives a single crap about. Talk about your ten year histories in your RPs that have absolutely no bearing on your opponent, except giving you way more to work with than them, and then chastising then for having no depth when they can't possibly compare up to that. Sounds good Chief God I'm really remembering how miserable this place is. I'm actually glad Reina bailed on me and killed our program. WFWF is awful, and you very clearly hate it. You should definitely find their 'state of things' thread and toss out a couple of thinly veiled sleights against their stalwart user base disguised as suggestions meant to guide it toward improvement. For someone who has (several times now) come at me for my sh*tty attitude (which, to date, I've never once denied), this post here sure does take a gigantic dump on the perfectly pleasant pairing of King Richius and @ballparkb0b, who are putting forth as much of themselves as possible to keep this place running and make it an engaging and welcoming environment. If that's all you've come out of the woods to bring to the table, then I'm glad Reina bailed and denied us that, too. Just like I'm glad you bailed as owner. Anyway. I'm done. Might check in the chat thread from time to time. But I think I've sufficiently burned my bridges here to the point I won't even be allowed back even if I get the itch. I don't see me being welcomed anymore. Which was half the point of this tirade.
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Post by CM Poor on Feb 5, 2019 17:00:44 GMT -5
WFWF is awful, and you very clearly hate it. You should definitely find their 'state of things' thread and toss out a couple of thinly veiled sleights against their stalwart user base disguised as suggestions meant to guide it toward improvement. For someone who has (several times now) come at me for my sh*tty attitude (which, to date, I've never once denied), this post here sure does take a gigantic dump on the perfectly pleasant pairing of King Richius and @ballparkb0b, who are putting forth as much of themselves as possible to keep this place running and make it an engaging and welcoming environment. If that's all you've come out of the woods to bring to the table, then I'm glad Reina bailed and denied us that, too. Just like I'm glad you bailed as owner. Anyway. I'm done. Might check in the chat thread from time to time. But I think I've sufficiently burned my bridges here to the point I won't even be allowed back even if I get the itch. I don't see me being welcomed anymore. Which was half the point of this tirade. That makes two of us. Admitting to going on an Andrew Carter-esque tirade for the sole sake of trying to become blacklisted might be a new low for anyone here over the age of 25 - and that's saying something, coming from me.
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Post by Markw on Feb 5, 2019 17:05:25 GMT -5
WFWF is awful, and you very clearly hate it. You should definitely find their 'state of things' thread and toss out a couple of thinly veiled sleights against their stalwart user base disguised as suggestions meant to guide it toward improvement. For someone who has (several times now) come at me for my sh*tty attitude (which, to date, I've never once denied), this post here sure does take a gigantic dump on the perfectly pleasant pairing of King Richius and @ballparkb0b, who are putting forth as much of themselves as possible to keep this place running and make it an engaging and welcoming environment. If that's all you've come out of the woods to bring to the table, then I'm glad Reina bailed and denied us that, too. Just like I'm glad you bailed as owner. Anyway. I'm done. Might check in the chat thread from time to time. But I think I've sufficiently burned my bridges here to the point I won't even be allowed back even if I get the itch. I don't see me being welcomed anymore. Which was half the point of this tirade. Everyone's welcome back, I'm sure at one point bad guy™ felt like he'd probably burned his bridges long before he became World Champion and one of the longest running owners the place has had. Just relax a bit and stop trying to rile Brennan, it's not helping anyone.
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Cameron Stone
Main Eventer
Joined on: Jan 16, 2013 18:16:15 GMT -5
Posts: 2,014
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Post by Cameron Stone on Feb 5, 2019 17:06:10 GMT -5
Don't worry. It might be for the sake of that, but most of those feelings are genuine. At least to a degree.
There was a tipping point for me that really upset me. But it doesn't matter
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Post by bad guy™ on Feb 5, 2019 17:08:37 GMT -5
It's a weird situation, because all things considered CM Poor ICW and Cameron Stone all have valid points, the two former being in more agreement than the latter, but still. Ant (ICW) is right that part of the problem WFWF is experiencing is that in between card up and deadline, you'd think this place is a ghost town. Mesh and Bren do their part of chatting in the GD, but I can see how only two (with the occasional me or Kyzer post) people talking OOC would make someone a bit leary. Ant also has a point regarding writing with no reward except for a win or loss on the show. Unfortunately, read and reply mandates have been tried here, Sims, Text, and Fantasy and it just doesn't work. Outside of just wanting to see the place thrive, there's no way to really make anyone read any pieces unless they're the judge of a match. And even then, some people aren't comfortable giving feedback. I've beaten Drakz (major assist from Brennan but you get the point). I've beaten Mike a couple of times. But in reality, you pit me against each one of them a hundred times and run a simulation, I maybe only win ten of the hundred matches? And that's being generous to me and assuming I'm facing Drakz when all he has to write on is pen and paper and he mails the piece to Rich. I have no advice I can offer to certain guys. I'm a good writer. I know I'm a good writer. But I can't help Drakz or Mike get any better because they're better than me. Guys like Rich are in a similar boat. Very good, but how do you respond to someone better than you beyond "good job, this was great" when what they wrote is better than anything you can do? I can help out newer writers, and that's always been my favorite thing to do around here. But the well is running low. But to Cam's point about the same people winning all the time, to an extent I can understand his discontent. Brennan is right when he says this is a competitive game, and there are winners and losers, just like any other game. But while upsets happen (Mesh beating Penny, then Penny beating Drakz), they're so few and far between. Right now, it's SuperBrawl season and we all have our matches and feuds. That's not really an issue right now. But afterwards...what? Should we expect to see only Penny (assuming Mike hangs around), Drakz, and Kyzer going for the title in any given order because no one except for maybe Lynn could come close to beating them on the regular right now? Cam's best work came from after his feud with Drakz until SuperBrawl of that year. Drakz willingly fell on the sword to give Cam the rub he knew he could run with. And guess what? It worked. Now I'm not telling Drakz, or Kyzer, or Mike, or anyone to purposely go out there and lose to someone like Needles (sorry bud, I love you but you know where I'm coming from) every show and give them rubs they can use to increase their ability. But sometimes stuff like what Drakz did is a necessary evil of the top guys. It gives more inexperienced guys something tangible to hold onto and run with, while giving whoever took the proverbial L a facet to add to their character. This not only helps people get better by giving them something to work with instead of loss after loss with no hope for growth, it also lets lookiloos come in and say "Hey, this isn't a storyline based fed, but they'll do stuff once in a while to keep everyone rolling. I like that." Gun to my head, I'm not sure who's side I'd claim to be on. But I know my first big break was Rev letting me participate in the tag title match that Team F*ck You won way back at SuperBrawl IV. And if it weren't for Mike taking a chance against me when I revamped Horror into Malakai (sorry Bren) and giving me a rub push to the moon, who knows where I'd be WFWF wise. WFWF is a competition. But occasionally there needs to be some give and take once in a while, otherwise Cam's argument only gains more traction as time moves on. I want him to be proven wrong, even though he's my best friend in the world. But as it stands, both Cam and Ant and Bren all have serious weight to their arguments and it's nothing but gridlock. If they're still alive out there, I'd like to see what ZMaster and Jadoa have to say.
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Post by CM Poor on Feb 5, 2019 17:13:07 GMT -5
FWIW, my bone was less the idea and more the suggestion that the upper echelon here so obsessed with wins and losses that they'd never flinch in the interest of a new guy getting a rub. That was a sh*tty indictment against the personal character of the writers here because you can't punish someone for something they haven't done yet.
But hey - at least Cam got to try and paint the whole thing as my fault, again.
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Post by ICW on Feb 5, 2019 17:17:49 GMT -5
I have no say in this because I haven't been around in well over a decade BUT I just thought of an angle if I were to ever return and that's kinda cool. Hopefully I get my creative juices flowing a bit
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Post by King Richius on Feb 5, 2019 17:23:40 GMT -5
Just like I'm glad you bailed as owner. Anyway. I'm done. Might check in the chat thread from time to time. But I think I've sufficiently burned my bridges here to the point I won't even be allowed back even if I get the itch. I don't see me being welcomed anymore. Which was half the point of this tirade. Everyone's welcome back, I'm sure at one point bad guy™ felt like he'd probably burned his bridges long before he became World Champion and one of the longest running owners the place has had. Just relax a bit and stop trying to rile Brennan, it's not helping anyone. I was gonna' say something to the effect the the bridge is smoldering but no fires have broken out yet. As long as I'm owner, anybody who shows the desire to write an RP and a willingness to accept the judging is welcome. Perhaps over time Cam's opinion will change but for now I have to agree with him that the WFWF isn't for him, that his time is better spent with fantasy booking and sims. We all have to do what makes us happy and the WFWF isn't that for everybody.
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Post by ICW on Feb 5, 2019 17:25:59 GMT -5
Feel free to come to the Fantasy Booking board lol. I have an idea for a series called WCW/nWo: Re-Imagined and shared my ideas with one user. If anyone else wants to give me feedback PM Me
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