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Post by stc13 on Jun 9, 2019 22:17:53 GMT -5
It's a business. And the reality is that the 40th Cena or Reigns figure outsells whatever midcard wrestler from our childhood that many of us on here want. Mattel only uses wrestlers who are signed to WWE merchandise deals, and that list has pretty much been exhausted at this point. Many wrestlers inducted into the HOF have not signed Legends deals because, simply put, they are very restrictive for not a lot of money. At one point Mattel signed wrestlers directly, but stopped doing this after the Legends line. Mattel saves on money by working directly through WWE merch deals, so that probably won't change any time soon.
Your comment about legends echoes my thoughts. I have been wondering of late, if perhaps there are some legends that we may not get figures of because they have no interest in signing a legends deal due to what you mention- they are too restrictive (as Bret Hart said- 'they own you') and the money is not that good, especially for the mid-carders who aren't as popular as the top stars. For legends that are active on the indie scene (taking part in autograph signings, making appearances at conventions), they can probably make more money doing that then they will get from a WWE legends deal. Some guys that originally signed with Mattel but have not resigned such as Martel, Bundy, Crush, Demolition, might be due to them not wanting to sign a legends deal. I don't understand why WWE does offer a simple merch deal as another option for those who don't want to sign a full legends deal.
Without getting too into the weeds on details, I think that's exactly it. The Legends deals pay a 10K advance for a 6 year deal, with royalties paid against that advance with a very low percentage on figures, trading cards, dvd sales, tshirts, etc. My estimation is that most midcard stars never make much beyond that advance. In exchange, they sign away global marketing rights to their name and likeness. It probably makes sense for estates of dead wrestlers or guys like Kamala who are in bad health and off the road. But for Scott Steiner, the R&R Express, etc who are still actively doing shows they're likely making much better money at shows and through ProWrestlingTees with a much, much larger cut of the revenue. The easiest solution would be Mattel doing direct deals, but I think they got burned on poor sales from the Legends line and won't go back down that road in the current retail landscape. Maybe there's an outside chance WWE ether raises the payout or lightens up on terms to get more guys under deals with AEW on the scene. But AEW doesn't have a tape library or other way to monetize older talent, so I can't see much rush on WWE's end to lock them up. If Mattel is in fact extending their deal with WWE, it's going to be a boring few years for Legends collectors unless there are some significant changes.
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rjoneze
Mid-Carder
Joined on: Jun 10, 2017 17:12:40 GMT -5
Posts: 170
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Post by rjoneze on Jun 9, 2019 22:33:47 GMT -5
I like the fact that they make the top guys all the time. I just wish they changed part choices/ head scans more often to really change up the figure.
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Post by Vamp55 on Jun 9, 2019 22:41:10 GMT -5
Agree with what you are saying, but Mattel and WWE need to make money. AJ, Rollins, Cena and Regins sell - it’s because of them we get Hitman, Macho, Hogan (some point) and Andre.
Sure I think there is better ways to do things, and I think Mattel under estimates what a full Legends (same packaging the works) reboot could do today. But they are releasing Sheik in both elite and Retro. They are doing something right.
I’d you ask me, the problem is Bill’s hard on for NXT and Japan. To many Nakamura’s and the next NXT line is going to warm hard. It’s going to kill the line (if it’s not dead already) and Nakamura May kill the UE line before it starts.
For the record - I like Nakamura, but he is over produced because Bill loves him. Same with NXT, sometimes Bill makes crap decisions of who to make and they warm hard. (He’s not perfect, I know)
Just my thoughts and reflecting on my buying habits.
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HardyKOfan01
Superstar
Proud Follower of Mattitude and member of the #YEPmovement
Joined on: Apr 11, 2016 9:39:00 GMT -5
Posts: 942
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Post by HardyKOfan01 on Jun 10, 2019 10:56:16 GMT -5
I could understand that they want the top guys (Rollins, Styles, Strowman, Balor, etc.) on the shelves at all times, that’s the reason why Top Talents was made, right? I understand that completely, and hey, I’m a big Rollins and Styles guy, so having a bunch of figures of them is good for me.
HOWEVER... why do we need the exact same Strowman figure in two different sets, that release at the exact same time? Nothing against Strowman, but he doesn’t change his look really. It’s unnecessary. Keep him in Top Talents, and give his spot in the standard Elite sets to someone else.
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Post by Fighter Hayabusa on Jun 10, 2019 11:11:13 GMT -5
Keep in mind that most of these sets are planned out about a year in advance. A year ago Braun was destroying everyone in his path and was getting pushed to the moon. He won MITB and seemed destined to be universal champ and a mainstay on the top of the card. Nakamura was an international star and his popularity carried over to a very successful NXT run. He won the Royal Rumble and was in the middle of a feud for the world title. Mattel couldn’t have predicted which of the top stars that were currently being pushed would get buried over the course of the next year.
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Post by ~*Young $ Money*~ on Jun 10, 2019 12:18:16 GMT -5
There always has to be top stars on the shelves. It used to be Cena, Undertaker, and Rey, now it’s Seth, Roman, & AJ. As far as legends go, they need a serious change of pace. Macho, Savage, Undertaker, & Cena have been done to death. They’ve covered most of their most memorable looks with a couple exceptions like ‘06 Cena & ‘98 Undertaker. They need to cut back on those guys for a little while and put in more Booker T, Edge, Guerrero, Hardy Boyz, Triple H, & Flair. They also need to find some more new midcard & manager legends to make like Test, Val Venis, Kona Crush, Mr. Fuji, Crash Holly, Hardcore Holly, Victoria, Stacy Kiebler, Torrie Wilson, Gerald Brisco, Hercules, One Man Gang, and a bunch more. They’ve made most of the people they already have under contract, and we’ve not been getting a lot of new legends, only new people from NXT like Undisputed Era and Ricochet. I’d also like a couple more versions of Christian, Bam Bam, Martel, DX, and the Dudley Boyz if possible; people that aren’t mega stars but have already had a few figures. I couldn’t agree more. The legends are making me lose interest because we have seen them all over and over. They should concentrate on finished factions. Kama for nation,Henry for nation? Repaints that are actually needed
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Post by theicwguy on Jun 10, 2019 13:22:47 GMT -5
Because as hard as this is for us to believe, the toy line isn't centered around 40 year old guys wanting a Gentleman Chris Adams figure. ✋🏻 43. Hercules. Really? You're looking good for you're age lol.
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Post by rkmo: 10 Month Notice on Jun 10, 2019 13:35:56 GMT -5
Spreadsheets? Where's mattelfreak when you need him/her they were always the antagonist in every situation lol. Last I noticed the account was no longer active. #LeaveTheMemoriesAlone
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FUSamBaker
Main Eventer
Biggest crush on Sami Zayn.
Joined on: Sept 6, 2005 19:25:20 GMT -5
Posts: 3,107
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Post by FUSamBaker on Jun 10, 2019 13:44:14 GMT -5
Spreadsheets? Where's mattelfreak when you need him/her they were always the antagonist in every situation lol. Last I noticed the account was no longer active. #LeaveTheMemoriesAlone THANK JESUS! Anyway, I don’t really notice much. Yeah I wish we didn’t have multiples but kids love them. After all, these are meant for kids. They could care less about Legends...some. My brother hears a name and he wants the figure 😂 He’s 7 and desperately wants a Yokozuna. Like why? Honestly it’s an issue that’s super old. You’re always gonna see multiples of the top guys. I don’t pay it much mind. I just wish we could get a basic Rainbow Finn...would have been nice this month of all months!
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Post by Da Handsome 1 on Jun 10, 2019 14:14:47 GMT -5
#moreflashbacks
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Post by qdogg on Jun 10, 2019 14:37:01 GMT -5
New characters need a lot of new parts and new tooling
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Post by BadGirlRyleigh on Jun 10, 2019 15:21:14 GMT -5
New characters need a lot of new parts and new tooling God forbid they keep putting effort into this line...
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Post by theicwguy on Jun 10, 2019 15:30:59 GMT -5
New characters need a lot of new parts and new tooling God forbid they keep putting effort into this line... And the audacity of him. Making up attires that no-one ever wore.
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Post by screech on Jun 10, 2019 15:48:17 GMT -5
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to plan so far in advance and if their product didn't always take a lifetime to get released. They showed figures at last years Comic Con that still haven't been released (with no release date in sight) and yet we're almost to this years Comic Con. If they ever found a way to manage this where they could move from the design stage to the production stage quicker then I think the overall character selection would be a lot better as they'd be able to keep up on the trends and not take 1 and a half years to put out something like the Ultimate Deletion that everyone stopped caring about 2 months after it happened.
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Post by Vamp55 on Jun 10, 2019 16:30:44 GMT -5
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to plan so far in advance and if their product didn't always take a lifetime to get released. They showed figures at last years Comic Con that still haven't been released (with no release date in sight) and yet we're almost to this years Comic Con. If they ever found a way to manage this where they could move from the design stage to the production stage quicker then I think the overall character selection would be a lot better as they'd be able to keep up on the trends and not take 1 and a half years to put out something like the Ultimate Deletion that everyone stopped caring about 2 months after it happened. So true. Probably a reflection on the current product on TV as well. I have been thinking about, and LEGO do it perfectly. The product comes out right at the perfect time.
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alphadeltaxray
Main Eventer
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Joined on: May 9, 2019 15:41:00 GMT -5
Posts: 2,995
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Post by alphadeltaxray on Jun 10, 2019 16:40:32 GMT -5
There’s two separate issues in my opinion. First is the he man effect, they need top guys on the shelf al year round so newbies don’t struggle to find the guy they want and get started. This was spoken about on toys that made us I think? Second is the lack of first in the line guys and going to the well so often on some legends and ignoring others. That frustrates a lot of us and I don’t understand why Mattel is so stubborn. Not giving any update on what the hell happened with Harley race and that whole wave is a prime example of the problem a lot of us get annoyed with. That was very well said. Thank you for sharing that.
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alphadeltaxray
Main Eventer
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Posts: 2,995
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Post by alphadeltaxray on Jun 10, 2019 16:41:37 GMT -5
They need the top stars on the shelves. TV is driving the product and without AJ Styles, Roman Reigns, Seth Rollins, Braun Stroman, Finn Balor, etc, they wouldnt be able to make the Legends. I get all of that. But my question is why so many? Over and over again, every single series, every single line.
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Post by stc13 on Jun 10, 2019 17:01:29 GMT -5
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to plan so far in advance and if their product didn't always take a lifetime to get released. They showed figures at last years Comic Con that still haven't been released (with no release date in sight) and yet we're almost to this years Comic Con. If they ever found a way to manage this where they could move from the design stage to the production stage quicker then I think the overall character selection would be a lot better as they'd be able to keep up on the trends and not take 1 and a half years to put out something like the Ultimate Deletion that everyone stopped caring about 2 months after it happened. I think Mattel laying off 25% of their staff and closing factories last year doesn't help. But I totally agree that it's ridiculous that at last year's SDCC we saw a render for Bobby Lashley, and this year's SDCC we might finally see the actual proto for Lashley. And that's a guy who has been in the upper card picture basically that whole time and has a look that is as plain as can be. I'd love to see someone calculate how many figures were released in 2017/18 vs so far this year. Store exclusive lines, multi-packs, etc have all basically disappeared. The overall lack of product has been alarming when we're half way through the year.
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Post by screech on Jun 10, 2019 17:11:14 GMT -5
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to plan so far in advance and if their product didn't always take a lifetime to get released. They showed figures at last years Comic Con that still haven't been released (with no release date in sight) and yet we're almost to this years Comic Con. If they ever found a way to manage this where they could move from the design stage to the production stage quicker then I think the overall character selection would be a lot better as they'd be able to keep up on the trends and not take 1 and a half years to put out something like the Ultimate Deletion that everyone stopped caring about 2 months after it happened. I think Mattel laying off 25% of their staff and closing factories last year doesn't help. But I totally agree that it's ridiculous that at last year's SDCC we saw a render for Bobby Lashley, and this year's SDCC we might finally see the actual proto for Lashley. And that's a guy who has been in the upper card picture basically that whole time and has a look that is as plain as can be. I'd love to see someone calculate how many figures were released in 2017/18 vs so far this year. Store exclusive lines, multi-packs, etc have all basically disappeared. The overall lack of product has been alarming when we're half way through the year. Oh yeah, I'm sure the issue with losing staff and factories probably made things way worse. Lashley's actually coming out in E69 which should be shipping from Ringside before Comic Con, but still really slow turnaround time. But there are multiple others that were previewed last year like the NXT 5 figs, the Ultimate Deletion set and others that still haven't came out and some with no real release date a whole year later. I might be in the minority here, but I would be fine if they didn't show as much stuff as they normally do this year unless they're absolutely certain it's coming before next year's show.
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Post by LK3 on Jun 10, 2019 17:11:42 GMT -5
It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have to plan so far in advance and if their product didn't always take a lifetime to get released. They showed figures at last years Comic Con that still haven't been released (with no release date in sight) and yet we're almost to this years Comic Con. If they ever found a way to manage this where they could move from the design stage to the production stage quicker then I think the overall character selection would be a lot better as they'd be able to keep up on the trends and not take 1 and a half years to put out something like the Ultimate Deletion that everyone stopped caring about 2 months after it happened. I think Mattel laying off 25% of their staff and closing factories last year doesn't help. But I totally agree that it's ridiculous that at last year's SDCC we saw a render for Bobby Lashley, and this year's SDCC we might finally see the actual proto for Lashley. And that's a guy who has been in the upper card picture basically that whole time and has a look that is as plain as can be. I'd love to see someone calculate how many figures were released in 2017/18 vs so far this year. Store exclusive lines, multi-packs, etc have all basically disappeared. The overall lack of product has been alarming when we're half way through the year. Elite 58 started hitting in April last year. I think 54 was the first set at retail. Over a year later we’ve had 8 series at retail.
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