Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 13:41:08 GMT -5
I'm glad Kyle O'Reilly is getting some recognition from these segments. I think he's the most underrated person on their roster. I'm guessing with the positive rona tests we aren't gonna see him for a while again now. He is good enough solo he could easily be a main event guy if it fit. Just hasn't really been a need with both Roddy and Cole in those roles.
I don't think comparing the sledgehammer to great American bash is accurate at all. They aren't even kind of the same scenario. I'm all for fun pot shots at each other. The old WCW rib with Grandpa Hogan and Savage was hilarious. As long as it doesn't become the goal and it's just take a few jabs when you get a funny idea go hard. I'm sure there is gonna be a funny bte bit about the bash move. The bash is just hot shot counter programming with Cody's dad's event name just to basically have a **** measuring contest. The problem is too much hot shotting will ruin NXT. I don't think it's fair at all to say they'd be stupid not to counterprogram. It's pretty well established that the audience crossover is very small, both shows suffer more from losing to other sports and current events more than each other.
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JL Styles
Superstar
Joined on: Dec 19, 2019 15:43:47 GMT -5
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Post by JL Styles on Jun 25, 2020 14:02:31 GMT -5
I'm glad Kyle O'Reilly is getting some recognition from these segments. I think he's the most underrated person on their roster. I'm guessing with the positive rona tests we aren't gonna see him for a while again now. He is good enough solo he could easily be a main event guy if it fit. Just hasn't really been a need with both Roddy and Cole in those roles. I don't think comparing the sledgehammer to great American bash is accurate at all. They aren't even kind of the same scenario. I'm all for fun pot shots at each other. The old WCW rib with Grandpa Hogan and Savage was hilarious. As long as it doesn't become the goal and it's just take a few jabs when you get a funny idea go hard. I'm sure there is gonna be a funny bte bit about the bash move. The bash is just hot shot counter programming with Cody's dad's event name just to basically have a **** measuring contest. The problem is too much hot shotting will ruin NXT. I don't think it's fair at all to say they'd be stupid not to counterprogram. It's pretty well established that the audience crossover is very small, both shows suffer more from losing to other sports and current events more than each other. You make a valid point on the sledgehammer bit, but I'm going to stick to my guns on the Brodie Lee stuff.
I just always look at pettiness as if it's really necessary, and I just didn't think the sledgehammer bit was necessary. But as I said, your point is very vaild. I forgot about the WCW stuff. Good memories there.
I always enjoyed watching O'Reilly wrestle and loved his air guitar entrance with the tag team belt, but I never knew how funny he was until these segments. It's a shame Covid is going to keep him away for a lot longer.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 25, 2020 14:17:27 GMT -5
I have no issue with the Great American Bash thing at all. They'd be stupid not to do something big to rival AEW. The only winners are us anyway, 2 Wednesdays in a row we're probably gonna get PPV quality matches from both AEW and NXT. I totally see your point, but doing it a week out with no build feels like a panic move.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 14:20:52 GMT -5
Yeah the Brodie stuff is totally fair, and I think he even strayed away from it a bit too now because it got a bit unnecessary and was hurting his character. Still the odd thing but it's far less on the nose and feels more like it's own character now. Which is exactly why this bothered me. I think it's running the risk of making NXT worse in the long run, which is not what I want. Cramming to counter program and rush your stories instead of sticking to your plans and creating a better overall product. One of the (many many) reasons I think NXT has been consistently better than main roster is the fact that big events are spread out and they have time to build, instead of having to cram a ppv in every month.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 25, 2020 16:05:40 GMT -5
Yeah the Brodie stuff is totally fair, and I think he even strayed away from it a bit too now because it got a bit unnecessary and was hurting his character. Still the odd thing but it's far less on the nose and feels more like it's own character now. Which is exactly why this bothered me. I think it's running the risk of making NXT worse in the long run, which is not what I want. Cramming to counter program and rush your stories instead of sticking to your plans and creating a better overall product. One of the (many many) reasons I think NXT has been consistently better than main roster is the fact that big events are spread out and they have time to build, instead of having to cram a ppv in every month. People think I hate on WWE no matter what. I'd be amazing if both shows were a blast top to bottom. I'd love to have 4 hours of dope wrestling on Wednesday nights.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 17:17:50 GMT -5
2002-2019: Competition makes wrestling better! 2020: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE counter-programming! Man, if the kids today had been around during the Monday Night Wars, the threads would’ve been nothing but crying about trying to win the Monday Night Wars. 😂 Competition =/= counter-programming. Competition does and has made wrestling better. Hot-shotting each other with this level of counter programming going both ways would be the wrestling equivalent of mutually assured destruction. I can write out the basic economic theory behind MAD models of game theory if you need me to. Also, not only was I around during the Monday Night Wars, I remember how they ended. With constant hot-shotting eventually leading to one company self-imploding and finger pokes of doom. Wrestling got less popular once WCW died and the attitude era died out. Pretty much any athlete will tell you that they love competition, myself included. The way to best compete however, is typically by worrying about your own **** and not worrying about what the other guy is doing to prepare. I'd rather see both of these companies compete and succeed, and heavy counter programming is not the way to do that in the long run.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 18:14:48 GMT -5
Well we could say what we want about NXT becoming more sports entertainment like as their viewership is growing. They beat AEW badly this week!
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Post by hitmancmedge on Jun 25, 2020 18:15:32 GMT -5
2002-2019: Competition makes wrestling better! 2020: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE counter-programming! Man, if the kids today had been around during the Monday Night Wars, the threads would’ve been nothing but crying about trying to win the Monday Night Wars. 😂 Competition =/= counter-programming. Competition does and has made wrestling better. Hot-shotting each other with this level of counter programming going both ways would be the wrestling equivalent of mutually assured destruction. I can write out the basic economic theory behind MAD models of game theory if you need me to. Also, not only was I around during the Monday Night Wars, I remember how they ended. With constant hot-shotting eventually leading to one company self-imploding and finger pokes of doom. Wrestling got less popular once WCW died and the attitude era died out. Pretty much any athlete will tell you that they love competition, myself included. The way to best compete however, is typically by worrying about your own **** and not worrying about what the other guy is doing to prepare. I'd rather see both of these companies compete and succeed, and heavy counter programming is not the way to do that in the long run. Ahhh see there is that revisionist stuff. WCW went out of business for a lot of reason, hot shot booking for no reason, swerves for the sake of swerves instead of natural story telling. Pushing the same guys over and over again instead of elevating talent and giving us fresh matchups they ran Hogan-Nash thirty times Hogan-Piper thirty times, Macho-Hogan thirty times. They never elevated anyone beyond Goldberg and DDP in that whole time, but even then Goldberg was a mid card champion and DDP was a main event guy but they made sure to tell you he wasn’t as good as any of the other main event guys. It wasn’t just hot shot booking. Everyone fails to see something else too, NXT the last 3 months has almost been universally praised, the shows have been great and given us some of the best wrestling out there during this studio wrestling period. They are on a national network they can just ignore loaded up shows on the other channel. They have to counter program, you can’t just hand the nights over to the other company. USA would be pissed.
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Post by finnbalor1 on Jun 25, 2020 18:15:54 GMT -5
I never been a big Grimes fan but I'm starting to come around on him now. I'm glad we gonna see more of him and Priest.
UE was great again this week,Roddy is just amazing in everything he's doing.
Women's Tag,Rhea and Kross's matches were ok nothing great but still enjoyable. If Rhea gets signed with Stone that should be really fun.
Escobar and Atlas was good. Hope his crew runs though the cruiserweight for a while.
I was hoping the main event would get a little more time but it was still great and showed Lee as a real threat for the title. Hope he takes the title off Cole but looks like Kross will cost him.
I don't see any problem at all of NXT having some big matches next two weeks it's the only smart thing they can do imo. I watch NXT and AEW so I'm really looking forward to all 4 shows its a win win for me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2020 18:27:55 GMT -5
Competition =/= counter-programming. Competition does and has made wrestling better. Hot-shotting each other with this level of counter programming going both ways would be the wrestling equivalent of mutually assured destruction. I can write out the basic economic theory behind MAD models of game theory if you need me to. Also, not only was I around during the Monday Night Wars, I remember how they ended. With constant hot-shotting eventually leading to one company self-imploding and finger pokes of doom. Wrestling got less popular once WCW died and the attitude era died out. Pretty much any athlete will tell you that they love competition, myself included. The way to best compete however, is typically by worrying about your own **** and not worrying about what the other guy is doing to prepare. I'd rather see both of these companies compete and succeed, and heavy counter programming is not the way to do that in the long run. Ahhh see there is that revisionist stuff. WCW went out of business for a lot of reason, hot shot booking for no reason, swerves for the sake of swerves instead of natural story telling. Pushing the same guys over and over again instead of elevating talent and giving us fresh matchups they ran Hogan-Nash thirty times Hogan-Piper thirty times, Macho-Hogan thirty times. They never elevated anyone beyond Goldberg and DDP in that whole time, but even then Goldberg was a mid card champion and DDP was a main event guy but they made sure to tell you he wasn’t as good as any of the other main event guys. It wasn’t just hot shot booking. Everyone fails to see something else too, NXT the last 3 months has almost been universally praised, the shows have been great and given us some of the best wrestling out there during this studio wrestling period. They are on a national network they can just ignore loaded up shows on the other channel. They have to counter program, you can’t just hand the nights over to the other company. USA would be pissed. You make a fair point about the revisionist sort of thing. Yes they went out for an awful lot of reasons, not just hot shot programming. Though I think you could also categorize a fair amount of those examples as types of hot shotting. But it's a very fair point. I think we have one fundamental disagreement here though, and that's about how much effect each product has on the other. You're right, USA would be pissed if they just 'hand nights over'. I'm arguing there really isn't that much audience crossover between the two, so counter programming has very little effect on the numbers. Raw, SD, AEW, NXT, all seem to tell the same story. About 20% of the audience just stopped watching, and another 10-15% is really dependent on shows besides wrestling. Outside of a couple anomalies like this week, NXT and AEW have been rising and falling on the same weeks, not alternating weeks.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 25, 2020 20:04:24 GMT -5
Well they must be doing something right.
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shenmue
Main Eventer
Joined on: Oct 30, 2007 10:12:45 GMT -5
Posts: 2,730
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Post by shenmue on Jun 25, 2020 20:16:47 GMT -5
I watch one show then i watch the other, then i go to bed., i literally couldn't care less who wins the ratings, if they counter program each other etc. It's win win for me as i enjoy both shows mostly, i fast forward the pretty large amount of recaps and adverts.
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Jun 26, 2020 2:07:05 GMT -5
Cool start to the show, I didn't expect Lee to get the win against Priest. I liked the Thatcher segment. It seems like he's building a stable similar to Catch Point? It definitely has potential. Escobar/Atlas was good. It felt like these guys left some on the table, so hopefully there's a longer match down the road. I hate these Undiputed Era segments. Please just make them jock a-holes who are badass in the ring. NXT is trying to Sports-Entertain me to death. I'm curious about Indus Sher's ceiling in-ring. It'd be cool if NXT has another solid tag team on their hands. Women's tag was unimpressive. Had to watch it at 1.5 speed to get through it. Kross/Reed was everything I thought it'd be. Big guys beating the hell out of each other in a short-ish match is fun. I'm so out on the Kross/Scarlett entrance. It reminds me of a CAW entrance and someone added every option AND lip synching. Ripley/Aliyah. Nothing notable. Aliyah's not great, and the Robert Stone thing is whatever & feels directionless. Loomis/Strong was so frustrating. Imagine these guys having an actual wrestling match instead of doing this schtick. Lee/Gargano/Balor was like 3 stars for me. Nothing too memorable, but I really liked Lee winning clean in the middle of the ring. The whole Great American Bash thing is just so ridiculous. Spur of the moment, no build, blatant counter-programming hoping to cash in and attract older fans. If AEW did this people would be so upset. I don't have super strong feelings on it. It's just really petty and lame. This Wednesday night "war" would be more interesting if NXT wasn't worried about what the other guys were doing. Stay in your lane and make a dope wrestling show with your insanely deep roster. That's the thing though... UE are "sports entertainers" now. Strong has been a career, indy wrestler - with the focus on his ring-work... Now he has made the natural progression to WWE and sports entertainment, he can show his personality. I'm glad NXT won in the ratings - although it really shouldn't have taken this long. I watch Dynamite every week, and honestly, it's nothing special - despite what others would have you believe. Also, NXT actually feels like a structured production - whereas, to me Dynamite seems like mostly just a load of random matches. Also, Jericho pretty much carries that show, and that's the main reason I watch it anyway.
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Post by sonstuds on Jun 27, 2020 10:08:57 GMT -5
Well we could say what we want about NXT becoming more sports entertainment like as their viewership is growing. They beat AEW badly this week! Which is a big win because I thought it was a pretty boring show overall.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 11:20:25 GMT -5
Well we could say what we want about NXT becoming more sports entertainment like as their viewership is growing. They beat AEW badly this week! Which is a big win because I thought it was a pretty boring show overall. What was boring NXT or AEW?
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Post by sonstuds on Jun 27, 2020 12:52:34 GMT -5
Which is a big win because I thought it was a pretty boring show overall. What was boring NXT or AEW? NXT. It comes off as a back-handed compliment but it's like a football team winning the game despite throwing four interceptions (not that I necessarily thought NXT was bad). Also I don't know if Dakota Kai's submission has a name but it should clearly be called The Cobra Kai.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 27, 2020 16:16:30 GMT -5
Io vs Sasha announced for Wednesday. Should be fantastic.
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Post by marino13 on Jun 27, 2020 16:29:07 GMT -5
If that episode was equivalent to 4 interceptions, I'd play that game every week.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 16:40:47 GMT -5
Io vs Sasha announced for Wednesday. Should be fantastic. There's a women's main event for Wrestlemania.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 28, 2020 9:59:46 GMT -5
What was boring NXT or AEW? NXT. It comes off as a back-handed compliment but it's like a football team winning the game despite throwing four interceptions (not that I necessarily thought NXT was bad). Also I don't know if Dakota Kai's submission has a name but it should clearly be called The Cobra Kai. It feels more like Raw or SmackDown now instead of the NXT of old that felt special. I know people enjoy it, I’m not saying they’re wrong. It’s just not for me anymore, I guess. I’ll probably check back in when Road Dogg isn’t there anymore.
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