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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2020 12:35:13 GMT -5
This doesn't bother me at all; it has the opposite effect on me. Personally, I value the health and safety of the wrestlers above all else in the context of a wrestling match. So anything that's being done to protect a wrestlers's health gets a thumbs up from me. And like previously mentioned, the refs getting in close to check on the wrestlers allows them to check for telltale signs in the eyes/body response time, etc that they might not notice from the other side of the ring. Find me one clip were they are up close and actually looking into the eyes of a wrestler. All they are doing is asking and listening.
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Post by bWo on Apr 25, 2020 12:51:27 GMT -5
Refs don't try to hide it when they talk to athletes in sports. There's no reason to think that the refs in wrestling shouldn't be able to do the same. It's when I see the wrestlers talking to each other without trying to cover it that bothers me. If I HEAR a guy poop talking his opponent, fine. But when I see them talking and don't hear them I automatically think they're talking about what they're going to do next.
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Apr 25, 2020 19:14:27 GMT -5
If the referee is doing his or her job right, you shouldn't even noticed said referee in the ring. 100%. The should be the first thing taught at Referee school. Someone should explain this to Aubrey Edwards.
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Post by RuthlessFigs on Apr 25, 2020 22:17:11 GMT -5
This doesn't bother me at all; it has the opposite effect on me. Personally, I value the health and safety of the wrestlers above all else in the context of a wrestling match. So anything that's being done to protect a wrestlers's health gets a thumbs up from me. And like previously mentioned, the refs getting in close to check on the wrestlers allows them to check for telltale signs in the eyes/body response time, etc that they might not notice from the other side of the ring. Find me one clip were they are up close and actually looking into the eyes of a wrestler. All they are doing is asking and listening. They're not just "asking & Listening". In some cases yes, mainly when someone's face down and/or with long hair covering, pretty much blocking the view of the face. But in most cases they are checking the eyes & expressions, looking for any giveaway signs of injury, even if the wrestler says they're fine and squeezes the hand. The dive at 6:04 Pretty obvious After the 'Shoulder Breaker' First thing Charles does is check Benoit's eyes. The way Ambrose lands after the powerbomb, you can see refs bend down to check a face up Dean. In the cut shortly after, you can Chioda is still checking his expression.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 6:40:02 GMT -5
100%. The should be the first thing taught at Referee school. Someone should explain this to Aubrey Edwards. When I created this thread I was just watching clips of her on Instagram. She is a scene stealer. She’s the Jimmy Fallon of AEW.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 7:24:43 GMT -5
The refs in All those videos look ridiculous.
Let’s take the shane cage video for example. Would you rather see the two refs run like a mother whose toddler just bumped their head into the corner of a table or would you rather Chioda yell for the camera to hear “ Shane are you hurt, do you want to quit the match?!” The ref could monitor the response which should be rehearsed. I submit that there should be a safe word to be spoken and a physical sign that when given together are a clear sign that the star is ok and ready to continue. If the star doesn’t give the verbal and physical sign then the ref could kamikaze bomb onto his face to investigate.
“Ok” and a head nod are not good examples bc they could be given unintentionally by a concussed star. The city they are in and an ear lobe tug would be acceptable.
To all the devil advocates that itching to respond...yes wrestlers forget the city they are in all the time, they should confirm with Bruce at gorilla. And how can a kayfabe incapacitated wrestler tug their lobe? They can.
If the wrestler is actually fine but names the wrong city or doesn’t tug then still investigate out of an abundance of caution.
My plan would eliminate 90% of these ridiculous sliding referee whispers!
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Post by RuthlessFigs on Apr 26, 2020 9:15:04 GMT -5
The refs in All those videos look ridiculous. Let’s take the shane cage video for example. Would you rather see the two refs run like a mother whose toddler just bumped their head into the corner of a table or would you rather Chioda yell for the camera to hear “ Shane are you hurt, do you want to quit the match?!” The ref could monitor the response which should be rehearsed. I submit that there should be a safe word to be spoken and a physical sign that when given together are a clear sign that the star is ok and ready to continue. If the star doesn’t give the verbal and physical sign then the ref could kamikaze bomb onto his face to investigate. “Ok” and a head nod are not good examples bc they could be given unintentionally by a concussed star. The city they are in and an ear lobe tug would be acceptable. To all the devil advocates that itching to respond...yes wrestlers forget the city they are in all the time, they should confirm with Bruce at gorilla. And how can a kayfabe incapacitated wrestler tug their lobe? They can. If the wrestler is actually fine but names the wrong city or doesn’t tug then still investigate out of an abundance of caution. My plan would eliminate 90% of these ridiculous sliding referee whispers! I would rather them run over "like a mother whose toddler just bumped their head into the corner of a table"... Not only because it gets them checking the performer quickly (You know, health and safety first), but if we're going to add a performance aspect to it, it presents that extra element of 'Holy sh*t that really f'd them up'. Seeing the ref charge in gives the audience that extra sense of shock; if they just stand there and say a few words beforehand, that takes away from the shock value. Having a ref just stand there and say "Are you hurt? You want to quit?", then waiting & waiting & waiting for a perfectly rehearsed response, getting no response, then deciding to go check on them is ridiculous... As for those "rehearsed responses"... Remembering spots, calling a match & properly selling is hard enough to keep consistent as it is. So after a bump like that, landing with both hands arms spread out, do you think Shane is going to lay there, remember a safe word, to tug his earlobe and say "I'm in Arlington Texas"? On top of that. Typically when selling a big move, a wrestler will be thinking about & repeating the next spot in their head, so this whole rehearsed response of - earlobe, city, as well the iggy & confirming they're okay will easily throw them off. Your "Plan" would only make things more complicated and difficult for everyone involved. Judging by what you've said in this whole thread so far, it seems you care more about some minor visual presentation, than the immediate health and safety of a performer. The current way is perfectly fine, it's worked for years & years & years, and it shouldn't be changed. The next time i see a ref slide & dive head first to check a wrestler, i'll definitely be appreciating and respecting it a lot more.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 10:04:55 GMT -5
It’s not a minor visual presentation. It’s a complete eyesore and tantamount to a slap in the face of the viewer. If they are so concerned about the immediate health and safety of the star then don’t do the move.
The ref does a rediculous sliding welfare check...the wrestler is OK(in real life)....the ref backs away and allows said wrestler to lay on the ground incapacitated(kayfabe)for 5 minutes...Yea makes sense.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2020 13:58:03 GMT -5
Aubrey is still over a.f. though, so whatever the case, it's working with the crowd. It's not like she's even close to the first ref to have a personality. Don't need to look further than Red Shoes Unno for that. He does a similar shtick in the ring in basically every match he refs. (As do most of the NJPW refs, he is just the most iconic that's still active now that Hattori is done) Personally I don't mind it all that much. Wrestlers personalities are turned up compared to every other sport, why not the ref's too? It's not like I don't know the UFC ref's by name, or notice little differences between them. Hell there are even some NHL ref's I recognize by name.
You shouldn't notice a ref whispering moves, or trying to pull a blade, etc, etc. It's fine to notice them being refs. Checking on athletes is part of a ref's job in any sport. Perhaps the NFL should do more of it. Look at how fast the UFC ref's move when stopping a fight. They're constantly staying close and examining the state of the fighters. Sliding check's feel the same to me as that.
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Post by shanieomaniac on Apr 26, 2020 20:34:56 GMT -5
Regarding Shane here, and the topic in general.
Remember KOR 2001? Yeah, he was definitely NOT ok after getting dropped on his dang head. And yet, despite literally not being able to hear the referee ask him if he was ok (because he was concussed so badly all he could hear was a buzzing noise), he still read the ref's lips and responded he was fine.
Notice that absolutely NO such consideration for his 'wishes' were given after that Reigns Survivor Series spear. They got him out of there ASAP.
So, for the record, the ref getting in there up close and checking things like eye movement and facial expressions? I'm all for it. These are people who work through injuries and concussions constantly. There's an entire debate to be had for if it's the company that pressures them or their own work ethic, but I'm not getting into that. The bottom line is that you can't just expect a superstar to say "Hey, I'm not ok, let's quit now" when they should. I hate to advocate the ref being a ring mother, but maybe that's what is needed. I mean, another example is to watch that video of Edge's comeback as he works on restoring muscle memory. If there was a set phrase or gesture such as tugging on an earlobe or reciting a phrase that was done, then they'd just commit that to muscle memory as well, and they'd be doing it even if not ok. Honestly, if they were concussed enough, they probably wouldn't even realize they were doing it. Head injury is a wicked thing. Mick Foley doesn't have first-hand memories of his entire famous HIAC match, and yet, he still finished the match.
Basically? Let the Refs check them and do a reading. Many of these people can have wrestling matches in their sleep. They need someone to check on their well being when they sure as heck can't.
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Post by RuthlessFigs on Apr 27, 2020 0:05:37 GMT -5
It’s not a minor visual presentation. It’s a complete eyesore and tantamount to a slap in the face of the viewer. If they are so concerned about the immediate health and safety of the star then don’t do the move. The ref does a rediculous sliding welfare check...the wrestler is OK(in real life)....the ref backs away and allows said wrestler to lay on the ground incapacitated(kayfabe)for 5 minutes...Yea makes sense. It is though... It's honestly something so minor that no one else is this upset or bothered by it. But you act like it's an absolute travesty and ruins the product... As for "A slap in the face of the viewer" that's just hilarious... Here i am watching wrestling - "Ooh that was a scary bump... WTF? WHY DID THE REFEREE SLIDE IN TO CHECK HIM?!?! THIS IS BS, THIS IS A SLAP TO MY FACE AS A VIEWER! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS, THE REFEREE SHOULDN'T BE THERE CHECKING HIM LIKE THAT! THEY SHOULD BE ACROSS THE RING ASKING IF THEY WANT TO QUIT, NOT CHECKING THEM FOR IMMEDIATE SIGNS OF INJURY! THE WRESTLER SHOULD GIVE A PHYSICAL SIGN, TUG THEIR EARLOBE, GIVE THE IGGY AND SAY THEY'RE IN CHICAGO ILLINOIS! I'M DONE!" Lastly, yes it does make sense. There's no sign of serious injury & the wrestler is okay to continue. So yes, the referee would logically back away, and the wrestler would continue to sell the (kayfabe) effect of the move.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 5:50:15 GMT -5
It’s not a minor visual presentation. It’s a complete eyesore and tantamount to a slap in the face of the viewer. If they are so concerned about the immediate health and safety of the star then don’t do the move. The ref does a rediculous sliding welfare check...the wrestler is OK(in real life)....the ref backs away and allows said wrestler to lay on the ground incapacitated(kayfabe)for 5 minutes...Yea makes sense. It is though... It's honestly something so minor that no one else is this upset or bothered by it. But you act like it's an absolute travesty and ruins the product... As for "A slap in the face of the viewer" that's just hilarious... Here i am watching wrestling - "Ooh that was a scary bump... WTF? WHY DID THE REFEREE SLIDE IN TO CHECK HIM?!?! THIS IS BS, THIS IS A SLAP TO MY FACE AS A VIEWER! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS, THE REFEREE SHOULDN'T BE THERE CHECKING HIM LIKE THAT! THEY SHOULD BE ACROSS THE RING ASKING IF THEY WANT TO QUIT, NOT CHECKING THEM FOR IMMEDIATE SIGNS OF INJURY! THE WRESTLER SHOULD GIVE A PHYSICAL SIGN, TUG THEIR EARLOBE, GIVE THE IGGY AND SAY THEY'RE IN CHICAGO ILLINOIS! I'M DONE!" Lastly, yes it does make sense. There's no sign of serious injury & the wrestler is okay to continue. So yes, the referee would logically back away, and the wrestler would continue to sell the (kayfabe) effect of the move. Serious question, Do refs still do the 10count on a downed wrestler?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2020 18:07:34 GMT -5
Just watched Rock/HHH SS ‘98 ladder match. Chioda stayed on the outside the entire time and let the match breathe. Text book ref job.
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Post by GreyHaze:Big Bad Booty Daddy on Apr 27, 2020 21:35:13 GMT -5
I’m more upset at the paper thin reactions the refs have when they take a bump... it’s cringing
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Post by shanieomaniac on Apr 28, 2020 5:13:33 GMT -5
I’m more upset at the paper thin reactions the refs have when they take a bump... it’s cringing Yes well we all know referees are made of glass and tissue paper.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 18:28:25 GMT -5
Why was Pete Rose able to take multiple high risk bumps without being checked on?
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2020 20:45:15 GMT -5
Why was Pete Rose able to take multiple high risk bumps without being checked on? Probably because our knowledge of concussions and CTE has advanced in the past twenty years and we know better now than to assume wrestlers are fine. It was also the worlds tamest choke slam in history, and very gentle tombstones.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 8:21:59 GMT -5
Why was Pete Rose able to take multiple high risk bumps without being checked on? Probably because our knowledge of concussions and CTE has advanced in the past twenty years and we know better now than to assume wrestlers are fine. It was also the worlds tamest choke slam in history, and very gentle tombstones. So we are still going to do the moves that may cause concussions and CTE but at least we check on the after it's done?
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 12:24:17 GMT -5
They aren't checking because the move itself causes concussions, they check because if the wrestlers botched the move they could be injured.
I think at this point in the thread it's well clear that you are the only one it really bothers.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2020 12:41:24 GMT -5
They aren't checking because the move itself causes concussions, they check because if the wrestlers botched the move they could be injured. I think at this point in the thread it's well clear that you are the only one it really bothers. Refs check in on after every move not botched ones. That is the point of this thread. They BETTER check after a botch.
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