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Post by LK3 on May 2, 2020 18:24:17 GMT -5
Hi all, hopefully this is a topic that will be of some interest. I’m not sure if anyone else has watched Quizzlemania on YouTube the last several weeks, but on the show this week one of the games had a round where they had to name off all the grand slam winners. A wrong answer was given that sparked a little confusion to the players, as well as myself. Dolph Ziggler. Now during the game they dismissed it thinking that his tag title reign as Nicky, not “Dolph Ziggler”, was the reason he’s not recognized. However, it’s more than that.
On the surface Dolph checks the boxes. Former world champion, former tag champion (as Nicky, or more recently with Drew McIntyre and Robert Roode), former IC champ, and former US champ. That seemingly checks all the boxes with the current formula to be a grand slam winner, but the issue is his world title reign. The current primary title qualifiers are the WWE Championship and Universal Championship, therefore the two World Heavyweight Championship reigns to his name do not count toward this recognition. I find that to be absolutely silly. A former World Champion isn’t a grand slam winner because he doesn’t meet the criteria of being world champion.
Consider this. Ziggler was last world champion in 2013 after he cashed in MITB. That reign is more recent than the WWE Championship reigns for The Miz and Rey Mysterio who qualify for grand slam recognition because of said WWE Title reigns. Even sillier. I don’t see why the World Heavyweight Title should be discontinued from the equation because it’s defunct when there are active wrestlers who have held the title. Looking back at the title history, Chris Benoit also misses out on being a grand slam winner because of these rules.
Thoughts?
Also for fun, here are the current active WWE wrestlers who are one title win away from being a grand slam winner (don’t think I missed any but feel free to mention anyone if I did):
-John Cena, needs IC Title
-Kevin Owens, need a tag title
-Drew McIntyre, needs US Title
-Dolph Ziggler, needs WWE or Universal Title
-Shelton Benjamin, needs WWE or Universal Title
-Braun Strowman, needs US Title
-Sheamus, needs IC Title
-Undertaker, needs IC Title (would qualify under original format)
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Post by shanieomaniac on May 4, 2020 3:15:08 GMT -5
Can you imagine Undertaker or Cena winning the IC title right now?
Cuz I can't.
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Post by LK3 on May 4, 2020 4:15:17 GMT -5
Can you imagine Undertaker or Cena winning the IC title right now? Cuz I can't. Nope lol. Taker obviously isn't. I'd give Cena a MAYBE. Bret Hart won the US Title at like 80 years old, so not gonna count out Cena completely. |
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Post by King Silva on May 4, 2020 4:58:52 GMT -5
I could see Cena maybe coming back to win the IC Title. I mean it is literally the only thing he hasn't done so might as well do it already.
Him being champion would be better than the current situation where the title is being held hostage..
They should just strip Sami of the belt and have either Jeff or Sheamus win it.
It could probably go Jeff --> Sheamus --> Cena
That would add two more people to the club. And chances are their reigns would be better than the last three people who had the IC Title (Shinsuke/Braun/Zayn).
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Post by RuthlessFigs on May 4, 2020 5:50:55 GMT -5
The World Heavyweight Championship should definitely count. So yes, Dolph is a Grand Slam.
For the who needs titles to be one, i see John Cena holding at least once before he retires.
Both him and Sheamus need it. An easy feud to go into WrestleMania 37 is Sheamus being the IC Champion, saying along the lines of "This title is all i needed to become a Grand Slam Champion, and now that i finally have it, there's not a damn thing anyone can do about it". Then Cena comes out saying "You weren't the only one who needed the Intercontinental Championship to become a Grand Slam Champion. No one can do a damn thing about you being champion? I can."
Cena beats Sheamus at WrestleMania 37, Cena does his open challenge thing, wins a few, then faces a rising star to put over and drop the title to.
Assuming he's innocent and gets cleared of all the allegations, Velveteen Dream would be a perfect choice.
If they play the story out long enough, they can do it at WrestleMania 38 and even have Dream retire Cena.
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Post by LK3 on May 4, 2020 7:13:36 GMT -5
I feel pretty good about Kevin Owens’ chances of winning a tag title. Strowman and McIntyre will probably win the US Title at some point too.
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Post by LA Times on May 4, 2020 14:57:08 GMT -5
Somebody should try to be a Double Grand Slam Champion
-At least 2/3 of WWE, World Heavyweight or Universal Championship
-At least 2/3 of World, WWE/Raw and Smackdown Tag Team Championship
-Both Intercontinental and US Championship
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Post by Nick Papagiorgio on May 4, 2020 15:08:43 GMT -5
List of Triple Crown Winners
Pedro Morales
Bret Hart
Diesel
Shawn Michaels
Stone Cold Steve Austin
The Rock
Triple H
Kane
Chris Jericho
Kurt Angle
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Benoit
Ric Flair
Edge
Rob Van Dam
Booker T
Randy Orton
Jeff Hardy
CM Punk
John Bradshaw Layfield
Rey Mysterio
Dolph Ziggler
Christian
Big Show
The Miz
Daniel Bryan
Dean Ambrose
Roman Reigns
Seth Rollins
Kofi Kingston
Drew McIntyre
List of Grand Slam Winners
Original Format
Shawn Michaels
Triple H
Kane
Chris Jericho
Kurt Angle
Eddie Guerrero
Rob Van Dam
Booker T
Jeff Hardy
John Bradshaw Layfield
Christain
Big Show
Revised Format
Kurt Angle
Eddie Guerrero
Edge
Big Show
The Miz
Daniel Bryan
Chris Jericho
Dean Ambrose
Roman Reigns
Randy Orton
Seth Rollins
Jeff Hardy
Kofi Kingston
Rey Mysterio
To be a Triple Crown you need to win the WWE Championship not the Universal Championship but for Grand Slam you need either World Title and Tag Team Title.
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Post by LK3 on May 4, 2020 15:34:31 GMT -5
Somebody should try to be a Double Grand Slam Champion -At least 2/3 of WWE, World Heavyweight or Universal Championship -At least 2/3 of World, WWE/Raw and Smackdown Tag Team Championship -Both Intercontinental and US Championship There are some that have accomplished the grand slam under both the original and new format: -Chris Jericho -Kurt Angle -Eddie Guerrero -Jeff Hardy -Big Show |
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Post by LK3 on May 4, 2020 15:41:56 GMT -5
For the women I’m a little surprised they didn’t run with Charlotte as the first grand slam winner. She has won four separate titles.. RAW, SD, NXT, and Divas. I think it would be pretty easy to just say the criteria is “any 4” women’s titles as the amount of titles are obviously pretty limited compared to the men. Not that there are many people around who’d have won a defunct women’s title.. probably Charlotte and Natalya is all. Certainly not a big issue like Ziggler with the World Title, but just something to point out given the way Charlotte has so many accomplishments and accolades.
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Post by kennyw86v2 on May 4, 2020 16:27:27 GMT -5
For the women I’m a little surprised they didn’t run with Charlotte as the first grand slam winner. She has won four separate titles.. RAW, SD, NXT, and Divas. I think it would be pretty easy to just say the criteria is “any 4” women’s titles as the amount of titles are obviously pretty limited compared to the men. Not that there are many people around who’d have won a defunct women’s title.. probably Charlotte and Natalya is all. Certainly not a big issue like Ziggler with the World Title, but just something to point out given the way Charlotte has so many accomplishments and accolades. Thank God they went with bayley |
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Post by LK3 on May 4, 2020 16:32:38 GMT -5
For the women I’m a little surprised they didn’t run with Charlotte as the first grand slam winner. She has won four separate titles.. RAW, SD, NXT, and Divas. I think it would be pretty easy to just say the criteria is “any 4” women’s titles as the amount of titles are obviously pretty limited compared to the men. Not that there are many people around who’d have won a defunct women’s title.. probably Charlotte and Natalya is all. Certainly not a big issue like Ziggler with the World Title, but just something to point out given the way Charlotte has so many accomplishments and accolades. Thank God they went with bayley Yeah I’m ok with it lol |
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Post by Valbroski on May 4, 2020 17:48:00 GMT -5
They should of gave Cena the IC title instead of the United States title in 2015. They could of done the same open challenge angle and give him the last title he needs for grand slam status.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 4, 2020 19:55:26 GMT -5
If Zigglers run as World Champion doesnt count then Cena having 16 titles is false as well.
My own personal recognition of Triple Thread/Grand Slam Champion is WWE Heavyweight, IC & Tag Title. For Grand Slam Ill add in one of either the European Title or the United States Title.
I personally dont recognize the WHC or the Universal title as being "legit" world titles. That's just me though.
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Post by LK3 on May 4, 2020 20:08:10 GMT -5
If Zigglers run as World Champion doesnt count then Cena having 16 titles is false as well. My own personal recognition of Triple Thread/Grand Slam Champion is WWE Heavyweight, IC & Tag Title. For Grand Slam Ill add in one of either the European Title or the United States Title. I personally dont recognize the WHC or the Universal title as being "legit" world titles. That's just me though. What makes you not view the World Heavyweight Championship as legit? I know there was a period of time where it clearly wasn't as important to WWE as the WWE Championship, but going back to when it was introduce you had Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, etc being champion. Eventually the likes of Undertaker, Edge, Batista.
As for your first sentence, I can't agree with that at all. It's just a technicality that Dolph's World Championship reigns don't count toward the new format. I get the idea of it, update it to take into account the two CURRENT primary championships, but it just leaves a huge gap of time where wrestlers had the chance of being World Heavyweight Champion but zero chance of being European/Hardcore Champion because they didn't exist anymore.
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Post by Nivro™ on May 4, 2020 20:33:40 GMT -5
If Zigglers run as World Champion doesnt count then Cena having 16 titles is false as well. My own personal recognition of Triple Thread/Grand Slam Champion is WWE Heavyweight, IC & Tag Title. For Grand Slam Ill add in one of either the European Title or the United States Title. I personally dont recognize the WHC or the Universal title as being "legit" world titles. That's just me though. What makes you not view the World Heavyweight Championship as legit? I know there was a period of time where it clearly wasn't as important to WWE as the WWE Championship, but going back to when it was introduce you had Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, etc being champion. Eventually the likes of Undertaker, Edge, Batista. As for your first sentence, I can't agree with that at all. It's just a technicality that Dolph's World Championship reigns don't count toward the new format. I get the idea of it, update it to take into account the two CURRENT primary championships, but it just leaves a huge gap of time where wrestlers had the chance of being World Heavyweight Champion but zero chance of being European/Hardcore Champion because they didn't exist anymore.
WWE looks/looked at the WWE, Universal & WHC all as top tier titles. If someone says that X Wrestler isnt a triple crown/grand slam champion cause a title is defunct, then that title shouldnt count towards any other numbers either. Regardless of who the wrestler is. The format has always been 1 main title, 1 tag title and both mid card titles (which ever the titles may have been at the time) As for my personal opinion on titles, I guess its me being a traditionalist. To me there's only 1 World/main title in a company. I didnt recognize the ghost of the NWA title aka the International Title when it was in WCW either. I dont tell people they're wrong if they do, just my personal opinion. Im picky about title lineages & prestige. Just like the United States title. WWE tries to pull that crap that the lineage goes all the way back Harley Race in 1975....Nah fam, NWA/WCW title went back that far...WWE's US lineage starts with Eddie Guerrero in 2003. |
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Post by shanieomaniac on May 4, 2020 22:40:48 GMT -5
What makes you not view the World Heavyweight Championship as legit? I know there was a period of time where it clearly wasn't as important to WWE as the WWE Championship, but going back to when it was introduce you had Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, etc being champion. Eventually the likes of Undertaker, Edge, Batista. As for your first sentence, I can't agree with that at all. It's just a technicality that Dolph's World Championship reigns don't count toward the new format. I get the idea of it, update it to take into account the two CURRENT primary championships, but it just leaves a huge gap of time where wrestlers had the chance of being World Heavyweight Champion but zero chance of being European/Hardcore Champion because they didn't exist anymore.
WWE looks/looked at the WWE, Universal & WHC all as top tier titles. If someone says that X Wrestler isnt a triple crown/grand slam champion cause a title is defunct, then that title shouldnt count towards any other numbers either. Regardless of who the wrestler is. The format has always been 1 main title, 1 tag title and both mid card titles (which ever the titles may have been at the time)As for my personal opinion on titles, I guess its me being a traditionalist. To me there's only 1 World/main title in a company. I didnt recognize the ghost of the NWA title aka the International Title when it was in WCW either. I dont tell people they're wrong if they do, just my personal opinion. Im picky about title lineages & prestige. Just like the United States title. WWE tries to pull that crap that the lineage goes all the way back Harley Race in 1975....Nah fam, NWA/WCW title went back that far...WWE's US lineage starts with Eddie Guerrero in 2003. Actually, I believe the exact format was always worded as: 1 "world" title, 1 tag title, 1 "secondary" title, and 1 "tertiary" title. The only thing is that, for pretty much the existence of the honor in the WWE, the only "secondary" title has been the IC belt, while the tertiary titles have been the European, Hardcore, and US championship. Naturally, there's some argument to be had that, currently, the US Title is now a secondary level belt, especially with the brand split. But, to me, the US title just never had the same shine as the IC belt. There was once a time when the IC belt meant you were headed for greatness. Now, not so much I'd say, but I still can't help but think of IC as being far better than US. |
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The Shiniest Wizard
Main Eventer
Bored at work, entertain me.
Joined on: Jan 31, 2013 12:44:25 GMT -5
Posts: 1,483
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Post by The Shiniest Wizard on May 4, 2020 23:00:37 GMT -5
WOW Sheamus has never been IC Champ? That honestly surprises me. You would think he would've had it ONCE by now.
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👑🇵🇭⭐️
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
King Of The Ring 2007 - Team Undisputed
Joined on: Feb 4, 2013 13:46:47 GMT -5
Posts: 4,673
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Post by 👑🇵🇭⭐️ on May 4, 2020 23:02:44 GMT -5
Somebody should try to be a Double Grand Slam Champion -At least 2/3 of WWE, World Heavyweight or Universal Championship -At least 2/3 of World, WWE/Raw and Smackdown Tag Team Championship -Both Intercontinental and US Championship   |
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Post by LK3 on May 5, 2020 0:14:33 GMT -5
WWE looks/looked at the WWE, Universal & WHC all as top tier titles. If someone says that X Wrestler isnt a triple crown/grand slam champion cause a title is defunct, then that title shouldnt count towards any other numbers either. Regardless of who the wrestler is. The format has always been 1 main title, 1 tag title and both mid card titles (which ever the titles may have been at the time)As for my personal opinion on titles, I guess its me being a traditionalist. To me there's only 1 World/main title in a company. I didnt recognize the ghost of the NWA title aka the International Title when it was in WCW either. I dont tell people they're wrong if they do, just my personal opinion. Im picky about title lineages & prestige. Just like the United States title. WWE tries to pull that crap that the lineage goes all the way back Harley Race in 1975....Nah fam, NWA/WCW title went back that far...WWE's US lineage starts with Eddie Guerrero in 2003. Actually, I believe the exact format was always worded as: 1 "world" title, 1 tag title, 1 "secondary" title, and 1 "tertiary" title. The only thing is that, for pretty much the existence of the honor in the WWE, the only "secondary" title has been the IC belt, while the tertiary titles have been the European, Hardcore, and US championship. Naturally, there's some argument to be had that, currently, the US Title is now a secondary level belt, especially with the brand split. But, to me, the US title just never had the same shine as the IC belt. There was once a time when the IC belt meant you were headed for greatness. Now, not so much I'd say, but I still can't help but think of IC as being far better than US. You get it lol.
Now I'd imagine this was a thing before the World Heavyweight Championship came around, thus originally originally having only 1 main title, but quickly became either or once the WHC was created as a second world title.
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