johnnyhanson21
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Joined on: Oct 10, 2019 17:01:41 GMT -5
Posts: 995
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Post by johnnyhanson21 on May 12, 2020 18:10:01 GMT -5
Brand split failed once again as other have pointed out do to not having enough star power and the terrible writing team that has done next to nothing to build up new stars ala like the 1st brand split did in making Brock,Batista,Orton,Cena and to a lesser degree a guy like Edge.
Right now as it stands with Becky leaving and Roman Reigns being MIA for god knows how long your top talent in terms of credibility in the fans eyes,drawing power in terms of bring fans to the arena or eyes on the TV and selling merch you have,
AJ Styles
Bray Wyatt
Charlotte Flair
Daniel Bryan
The New Day
Randy Orton
Seth Rollins
and that's it,trying to spread that thin amount of talent between two brands just wont work.The WWE is trying to build up both McIntrye & Strowman now but in the case of Strowman he's beyond damaged goods and will never be truly over with the fans or a bankable main event draw of the years of miss use and the constant jobbing to guys like Brock,Reigns and the like.While McIntrye has a shoot but as it stands right now he's the worst drawing champion in terms of ratings in company history.Not really his fault do to the RONA and having no fans in the arena but its still a ding on him.
Another huge probable they have even with the brand split is that their only able to push a few names at a time and either forget about everyone else or job everyone else out to the few talents their pushing.Just look at Becky's last year in a half or so has anyone that has feuded with her come out better after the fact ? same goes for Drew right now as he's making Vega and her crew look like total jobbers week after week which is damage three or four talents weekly just to push one in Drew.
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Post by punksnotdead on May 12, 2020 18:18:48 GMT -5
No. The brand split is what gives rise to new stars. I think the best example we can possibly state is John Cena. Go back and watch Smackdown from Halloween 2002 through all of 2003. He became a star from week-to-week. He was given massive opportunity against Brock, Angle and Undertaker, and had a match, segment, or both every single week. The audience started off calling Cena Vanilla Ice with Taz and Cole clowning him on commentary and he was pretty much the most over guy on the roster by the time he got to Show in New York. Cena aside, we’ve seen the split get all kinds of guys over to varying degrees, or rather, guys getting themselves over with bigger opportunity. Guys like Punk, Ziggler, Batista, Eddie, JBL, Edge, just on-and-on. So the idea is a good one, but the execution isn’t always there on the whole. |
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wheeljack83
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 18:32:12 GMT -5
You also realize, that if the brand split was ended, ratings for Smackdown would most likely plummet because you’d just see the same guys you saw on Raw 4 days ago doing the same exact thing. When there was no brand split from 2012-2016 Smackdown was literally just a taped rehash of Raw and virtually nobody watched it. That’s why it was bumped to a lower level channel like SyFy. I can tell you right now, that before the brand split in mid 2016, I never watched a full episode of Smackdown for those 4 years. I honestly don’t think I ever even flipped to the channel and watched part of an episode. I only watched Raw and PPV’s because Smackdown just became a cheap uninspired continuation of what happened on Raw. It had become a show with jobber/lower midcard filler matches and 1 or 2 segments/matches of a feud that was primarily showcased on Raw. That makes no sense. |
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👑🇵🇭⭐️
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WF 10 Year Member
King Of The Ring 2007 - Team Undisputed
Joined on: Feb 4, 2013 13:46:47 GMT -5
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Post by 👑🇵🇭⭐️ on May 12, 2020 19:11:12 GMT -5
What the WWE needs to do is give Smackdown and NXT a 3rd hour each. That or cut Raw down to 2 hours.
They need to feature the Champions prominently to show the main difference between the 3 shows. That difference is the Championship Title Belts, sort of.
The only issues I see are the Championship Title Belts shared between all shows, each for different reasons.
The Cruiserweight Championship Title could just stay in NXT UK as their mid-card Championship. It's there right now anyway. It fits nicely.
The 24/7 Championship Title is what it is.
As far as the Women's Tag Team Championship Titles go, I can't decide between creating separate sets for each brand, or unifying the Men's Raw and Smackdown Tag Team Championship Titles. Having 2 or 3 or 4 Women's Tag Team divisions could create the need to bring in more women with more opportunities. On the other side of the coin, having one Men's Tag Team division could benefit the rosters and beef up the combined divisions.
The most important thing to consider is I don't want to have to buy a King Corbin figure as a replacement for a King Harley Race figure.
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Post by tylerbreezee on May 12, 2020 19:30:03 GMT -5
You also realize, that if the brand split was ended, ratings for Smackdown would most likely plummet because you’d just see the same guys you saw on Raw 4 days ago doing the same exact thing. When there was no brand split from 2012-2016 Smackdown was literally just a taped rehash of Raw and virtually nobody watched it. That’s why it was bumped to a lower level channel like SyFy. I can tell you right now, that before the brand split in mid 2016, I never watched a full episode of Smackdown for those 4 years. I honestly don’t think I ever even flipped to the channel and watched part of an episode. I only watched Raw and PPV’s because Smackdown just became a cheap uninspired continuation of what happened on Raw. It had become a show with jobber/lower midcard filler matches and 1 or 2 segments/matches of a feud that was primarily showcased on Raw. That makes no sense. What exactly doesn’t make sense? You said “That” and there were multiple things said |
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Post by specterkev on May 12, 2020 19:33:54 GMT -5
Never liked the brand split thing..
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 19:48:08 GMT -5
What exactly doesn’t make sense? You said “That” and there were multiple things said By that logic, ratings should've tanked when there was no brand split. |
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
Posts: 1,353
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 19:49:00 GMT -5
What the WWE needs to do is give Smackdown and NXT a 3rd hour each. That or cut Raw down to 2 hours. They need to feature the Champions prominently to show the main difference between the 3 shows. That difference is the Championship Title Belts, sort of. The only issues I see are the Championship Title Belts shared between all shows, each for different reasons. The Cruiserweight Championship Title could just stay in NXT UK as their mid-card Championship. It's there right now anyway. It fits nicely. The 24/7 Championship Title is what it is. As far as the Women's Tag Team Championship Titles go, I can't decide between creating separate sets for each brand, or unifying the Men's Raw and Smackdown Tag Team Championship Titles. Having 2 or 3 or 4 Women's Tag Team divisions could create the need to bring in more women with more opportunities. On the other side of the coin, having one Men's Tag Team division could benefit the rosters and beef up the combined divisions. The most important thing to consider is I don't want to have to buy a King Corbin figure as a replacement for a King Harley Race figure. Here's my issue there. WWE is already struggling with the amount of programming they have as is. Will adding third hours to Smackdown and NXT really help? |
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Post by tylerbreezee on May 12, 2020 20:18:23 GMT -5
What exactly doesn’t make sense? You said “That” and there were multiple things said By that logic, ratings should've tanked when there was no brand split. They did? Smackdowns ratings were extremely low. They ranged between 1.1-2 million, where as since the brand split in 2016 (which drew over 3 million) it’s been in the steady mid 2’s and almost reaching 3’s |
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 20:31:04 GMT -5
By that logic, ratings should've tanked when there was no brand split. They did? Smackdowns ratings were extremely low. They ranged between 1.1-2 million, where as since the brand split in 2016 (which drew over 3 million) it’s been in the steady mid 2’s and almost reaching 3’s Yeah when Smackdown was on a cable network in less homes than FOX. WWE debuted on FOX with 3.9 million viewers. Now they've dropped 1.9 to 2.0 million last two weeks. They didn't tank when there was no brand split. |
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Post by Sizzle on May 12, 2020 20:37:04 GMT -5
Intentional ignorance by the OP in order to push a belief. There is a big reason WWE is doing this right now and I think it’s quite obvious...
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 21:02:05 GMT -5
Intentional ignorance by the OP in order to push a belief. There is a big reason WWE is doing this right now and I think it’s quite obvious... You mean all the people they just fired? Some of whom they had just re-upped to multi-million dollar contracts to keep them away from AEW? |
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Post by tylerbreezee on May 12, 2020 21:05:35 GMT -5
They did? Smackdowns ratings were extremely low. They ranged between 1.1-2 million, where as since the brand split in 2016 (which drew over 3 million) it’s been in the steady mid 2’s and almost reaching 3’s Yeah when Smackdown was on a cable network in less homes than FOX. WWE debuted on FOX with 3.9 million viewers. Now they've dropped 1.9 to 2.0 million last two weeks. They didn't tank when there was no brand split. You realize there’s a pandemic going on right now? Less wrestlers to appear on the show? Less storylines to push, lack of audience makes people not wanna watch, hmmmmm yeah it’s totally the brand split and not all these factors from a worldwide crisis... |
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havoc7179
Main Eventer
What is this?
Joined on: Oct 16, 2012 9:11:18 GMT -5
Posts: 4,189
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Post by havoc7179 on May 12, 2020 21:06:22 GMT -5
Intentional ignorance by the OP in order to push a belief. There is a big reason WWE is doing this right now and I think it’s quite obvious... You mean all the people they just fired? Some of whom they had just re-upped to multi-million dollar contracts to keep them away from AEW? How obtuse. I'll write it out. P a n d e m i c. Many wrestlers who weren't released and prominently featured are not coming into work. That's why one raw saw Zelina Vegas faction work 3 matches in a row. That's why one raw had Black vs Apollo go on for 20 minutes. People aren't coming into work. Sami. Kevin. Up until yesterday Randy and Edge. |
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👑🇵🇭⭐️
Main Eventer
WF 10 Year Member
King Of The Ring 2007 - Team Undisputed
Joined on: Feb 4, 2013 13:46:47 GMT -5
Posts: 4,673
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Post by 👑🇵🇭⭐️ on May 12, 2020 21:29:16 GMT -5
What the WWE needs to do is give Smackdown and NXT a 3rd hour each. That or cut Raw down to 2 hours. They need to feature the Champions prominently to show the main difference between the 3 shows. That difference is the Championship Title Belts, sort of. The only issues I see are the Championship Title Belts shared between all shows, each for different reasons. The Cruiserweight Championship Title could just stay in NXT UK as their mid-card Championship. It's there right now anyway. It fits nicely. The 24/7 Championship Title is what it is. As far as the Women's Tag Team Championship Titles go, I can't decide between creating separate sets for each brand, or unifying the Men's Raw and Smackdown Tag Team Championship Titles. Having 2 or 3 or 4 Women's Tag Team divisions could create the need to bring in more women with more opportunities. On the other side of the coin, having one Men's Tag Team division could benefit the rosters and beef up the combined divisions. The most important thing to consider is I don't want to have to buy a King Corbin figure as a replacement for a King Harley Race figure. Here's my issue there. WWE is already struggling with the amount of programming they have as is. Will adding third hours to Smackdown and NXT really help? I think removing an hour of Raw would help overall except for one aspect. Adding an hour to Smackdown and NXT would just add to the money made. |
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 21:43:04 GMT -5
You mean all the people they just fired? Some of whom they had just re-upped to multi-million dollar contracts to keep them away from AEW? How obtuse. I'll write it out. P a n d e m i c. Many wrestlers who weren't released and prominently featured are not coming into work. That's why one raw saw Zelina Vegas faction work 3 matches in a row. That's why one raw had Black vs Apollo go on for 20 minutes. People aren't coming into work. Sami. Kevin. Up until yesterday Randy and Edge. Maybe firing all those guys they could've used to fill time on these shows was short-sighted  . And you call me obtuse. |
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Post by hitmancmedge on May 12, 2020 21:44:15 GMT -5
How obtuse. I'll write it out. P a n d e m i c. Many wrestlers who weren't released and prominently featured are not coming into work. That's why one raw saw Zelina Vegas faction work 3 matches in a row. That's why one raw had Black vs Apollo go on for 20 minutes. People aren't coming into work. Sami. Kevin. Up until yesterday Randy and Edge. Maybe firing all those guys they could've used to fill time on these shows was short-sighted . And you call me obtuse. You really think No away Jose, Heath Slater, and Curt Hawkins are pushing those ratings up? This is one of those where the OP states his opinion and nothing else anyone says could possibly be true or have merit. |
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wheeljack83
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 22:14:25 GMT -5
Maybe firing all those guys they could've used to fill time on these shows was short-sighted . And you call me obtuse. You really think No away Jose, Heath Slater, and Curt Hawkins are pushing those ratings up? This is one of those where the OP states his opinion and nothing else anyone says could possibly be true or have merit. King Corbin vs. Drew McIntyre isn't. |
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wheeljack83
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Joined on: Feb 16, 2018 23:52:48 GMT -5
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Post by wheeljack83 on May 12, 2020 22:15:33 GMT -5
You can't split your brand ... because it's your brand. A true split would mean a total and complete separation of the shows. Different websites, different social, no mentions of the other show, no wrestlers crossing over, etc. WWE, you have one brand, two main shows, and too many wrestlers. At least NXT and definitely NXT UK sort of resemble something separate. Not perfect, but they do feel like something different. Red brand, blue brand ... give me a break. Yup, this. |
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Post by RuthlessFigs on May 13, 2020 2:45:42 GMT -5
No, the brand split should stay.
It gives the opportunity for talent to make a name for themselves, and be featured regularly on TV.
It also gives the product something unique. You want to see ___ & ___? Watch Raw. ___ & ___? Watch Smackdown.
One roster for both Raw & Smackdown sucked, and will suck if done again. I've never been more disinterested as a fan than when they were doing the whole 1 roster thing from around 2012-2016.
Like others said, it was pretty much Raw, and a re-run of Raw in Blue. All while a bunch of talent would go weeks without an appearance because there was simply no time or space for them on the show.
So with the size of today's roster, 2 brands are needed. 1 gigantic roster won't work. Even after these recent releases, the roster is still insanely stacked.
Like almost everyone else has mentioned, there's a pandemic happening... Which has negatively affected the entire wrestling world, and is the main reason why WWE is having struggles lately...
Talent choosing to stay home during this time is obviously going to cut the star power of each show. Depending on who sits out, one show could lose their biggest draws. Add in the fact of no crowds which dulls the entire product down and makes it awkward to watch, fans just aren't interested right now.
So the occasional cross over right now would be necessary... It will likely be 1, maybe even 2 stars from the opposite brand appearing every week or two. It won't be like the Wildcard rule where 5, 7, 10 or whatever talent can come over. It gives us a little something fresh to see with the talent still performing.
After reading all the responses here, i'm pretty much repeating what others have said.
There's a reason this is all happening right now, and the OP is intentionally ignoring that to push their own belief and opinion about why the brand split doesn't & won't work.
With that out of the way, i personally love the brand split.
Like i mentioned at the start, it gives talent an opportunity to shine & make a name for themselves.
- I used to love how the commentators made a big deal about the brands. Mainly Tazz, who was great in the 2005 Rumble... Always getting excited that a "Smackdown Guy" was entering, even for someone like Renee Dupre. Any time there was a 1 night invasion, or a build to a brand vs brand battle, the commentators would lose their minds over "A Raw Guy!! What's he doing on Smackdown?!?!"
It really made the talent feel important and like they were specifically chosen to represent the brands.
- Staying on that point. In the 2007 Draft, when Benoit was drafted to ECW & Booker drafted to Raw, JBL's reaction was amazing. Acting like it was the end of the world that Smackdown lost Benoit & Booker, it really put over how important they tried to make the brands feel and who was on them.
- 2008 - 2009 Smackdown was my favourite thing to watch. It had my favourite stars, and even though i happily watched Raw & ECW every week, i couldn't wait for Friday after School to come home and watch Smackdown. I'd always make sure i got home on time so i didn't even miss the intro.
- The drafts were always one of my favourite times in the year, seeing who would go where and what would happen. The 2009 draft will always be my favourite.
- Smackdown 2016-early 2017 was some of the best i'd seen in a long time, they made the brand feel special and like it was a completely different entity to Raw.
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