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Post by stc13 on Jun 24, 2020 20:08:23 GMT -5
Bandalero You hit the head on a very big part of this. I'm right in the middle of the millennial demographic (born '88) and it's been an interesting problem to watch evolve. Most people around my age, we didn't document everything. We were still learning what the internet was. We were warned by our parents, teachers, etc, that what we put out there was permanent. The problem was, it wasn't really. At that time. People could have screen capped, etc, but that didn't really happen back then. Sometimes people would save ICQ logs or Messenger logs, but even then, it wasn't really all that common. Social Media was the big game changer. Once you started having your actual identity directly connected through facebook, twitter, etc, everything changed. Sammy has already made amends in my book. Even the suspension is still far too much to me. I don't really know what "sensitivity" training is supposed to be, but training in managing his social media and being careful online now that he's a huge star would be something he (and all the other young stars) should be getting anyways, even if he hadn't gotten caught. Man if I compare 22 year old me to 26 year old me, those are a significant 4 years for sure. At the end of the day, it's glass houses, throwing stones and all that jazz. It's not defending a dumb joke, or saying boys will be boys. He got caught, he got punished, he apologized, likely got his head torn off by Sasha, and probably feels pretty bad about it. He'll learn, grow, and this is hardly the end of the world its being made out to be in some areas. I don't think it's like saying boys will be boys to be understanding that with youth comes stupidity. Shock humor is lame and stupid, and I've never really found it funny (more because it's just not that clever, not that I'm all that offended by it), but it's hardly the equivalent of an actual crime. Maybe it's the fact that I've spent a bunch of time working with underpriviledged and marginalized youth, but I'm pretty used to giving people the benefit of the doubt and allowing them to grow, rather than resorting to punishment, shame, and vilifying. I think I have a pretty similar perspective. Born in '87, and I've been working with youth and families in low-income communities for most of my adult life. I could tell stories for days of the people I've worked with who have done some terrible things, and turned their lives around. But that can only happen if people are given the opportunity to grow. Ironically I think many of the people who are calling for blood in the wrestling community right now would also argue wholeheartedly for criminal justice reform. And they're completely unaware of the contradiction there. I feel like the last few days have us pretty far down a slippery slope. I'm reading people calling for blood over any accusation at first blush. And I'm seeing behavior that is probably best categorized as dumb, offensive, creepy, or misguided lumped in with acts that are criminal felonies. Countless people calling for widespread blackballing rather than tough conversations that could produce real change and growth. From my experience, wiping the deck clean doesn't solve the problem. It just hits reset until the next wave comes. What wrestling needs right now is restorative justice, but I don't see any practical way that could be implemented, nor any real desire for it when fans and workers alike are taking an "off with their heads" mentality. I remember being 22 and thinking I had the world figured out. But life is rarely cut and dry, even if we'd like the solutions to be. In the age of social media, people seem to demand immediacy over thoughtful action, and corporate brands seem willing to give the people what they want to avoid being caught in the current. I've seen change. It takes tough conversations. Time. And a willingness to accept change, even if it's painful. That isn't what I've seen recently for the most part. When the ground settles, I don't feel confident that the wrestling community will be any better than it was before. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2020 21:20:37 GMT -5
I think I have a pretty similar perspective. Born in '87, and I've been working with youth and families in low-income communities for most of my adult life. I could tell stories for days of the people I've worked with who have done some terrible things, and turned their lives around. But that can only happen if people are given the opportunity to grow. Ironically I think many of the people who are calling for blood in the wrestling community right now would also argue wholeheartedly for criminal justice reform. And they're completely unaware of the contradiction there.I feel like the last few days have us pretty far down a slippery slope. I'm reading people calling for blood over any accusation at first blush. And I'm seeing behavior that is probably best categorized as dumb, offensive, creepy, or misguided lumped in with acts that are criminal felonies. Countless people calling for widespread blackballing rather than tough conversations that could produce real change and growth. From my experience, wiping the deck clean doesn't solve the problem. It just hits reset until the next wave comes. What wrestling needs right now is restorative justice, but I don't see any practical way that could be implemented, nor any real desire for it when fans and workers alike are taking an "off with their heads" mentality. I remember being 22 and thinking I had the world figured out. But life is rarely cut and dry, even if we'd like the solutions to be. In the age of social media, people seem to demand immediacy over thoughtful action, and corporate brands seem willing to give the people what they want to avoid being caught in the current. I've seen change. It takes tough conversations. Time. And a willingness to accept change, even if it's painful. That isn't what I've seen recently for the most part. When the ground settles, I don't feel confident that the wrestling community will be any better than it was before. Simply liking this post wouldn't do enough justice to it. The entire wrestling community would be doing itself a great service to really read and understand everything you wrote here. I bolded the one part, because as soon as you said it, I realized just how many of the people calling for Sammy's head even post apology and suspension had "black lives matter" in their twitter handles. |
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Post by King Silva on Jun 25, 2020 0:05:41 GMT -5
What he said was so stupid and should be punished. I think AEW was sorta forced to do something and I feel like their response so far is correct. Get him off TV for a little while until things die down and have him return at a later date.
Now if they fire him over this that is wrong imo because he does seem very remorseful (although even after his initial apology to Sasha I read he was liking tweets that were saying basically he did nothing wrong so that is very problematic *I'm surprised nobody else mentioned it either*)..
Still the most recent thing he said iirc was his Youtube video apology/goodbye for now so that's what I'll judge him on. He has a bright future and should be able to bounce back but this should be another warning to everyone that any controversial thing said on social media can and likely will come back to haunt you. So just don't say stupid sh*t, delete anything you think could be bad (hope it wasn't already screenshoted), and or just delete social media altogether, and don't be a horrible person from here on out.
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Post by Controversial Maverick PUNK on Jun 25, 2020 0:27:21 GMT -5
I'm just happy I won't have to watch him on TV for however long he's gone for, 'cos I absolutely can't stand him.
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The Real Chillary
Main Eventer
Chillary since day one ish
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Post by The Real Chillary on Jun 26, 2020 8:05:46 GMT -5
I'm just happy I won't have to watch him on TV for however long he's gone for, 'cos I absolutely can't stand him. And this is the other side of the coin when it comes to the toxic fanbase. I'm all for not being a fan of someone, but when something like this happens the only thing you can take away from it is a selfish outlook. I'm not attacking you or trolling, I just don't understand the need to post something like this. Instead, why can't you reflect on what happened and take it as a lesson instead of a personal victory? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 9:41:21 GMT -5
I'm just happy I won't have to watch him on TV for however long he's gone for, 'cos I absolutely can't stand him. Cool story bro |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 9:46:47 GMT -5
Oh that's a perfect segway.
On the topic of Sammy and cool stories. A mom shared her experience on Twitter of Sammy going out of his way to film a video for her 12 year old daughter who was having severe mental health issues, and how much it helped.
I've seen a few people now coming out with their stories of how good Sammy has been.
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Post by Yambag Jones on Jun 26, 2020 12:48:04 GMT -5
Oh that's a perfect segway. On the topic of Sammy and cool stories. A mom shared her experience on Twitter of Sammy going out of his way to film a video for her 12 year old daughter who was having severe mental health issues, and how much it helped. I've seen a few people now coming out with their stories of how good Sammy has been. I think overall, he’s a good kid. I hope he learns from this and grows as a person. |
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walkingturtles
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Post by walkingturtles on Jun 26, 2020 17:41:59 GMT -5
Oh that's a perfect segway. On the topic of Sammy and cool stories. A mom shared her experience on Twitter of Sammy going out of his way to film a video for her 12 year old daughter who was having severe mental health issues, and how much it helped. I've seen a few people now coming out with their stories of how good Sammy has been. Absolutely, people grow up and usually become mature good people. 32 yr old me today would beat the crap out of 20 yr old me. The true problem in society is that social media has given a voice to everyone. On top of that, we have become so advanced as a society, we are so comfortable that we have to create conflict where there really shouldn’t be any. Those people have joined with those in our society who are socially marginalized (the less attractive, the socially awkward, the less popular) and together with social media, they have pushed forward a toxic virtue signaling mindset that feeds off being able to have people fired or punished, to have maple syrup cancelled, and they chase that high onto the next thing. It’s why each issue seems to be more and more absurd to rational people because again, like an addict, they are chasing that feeling. They have to find that next issue that our society largely suppressed starting in the 60s. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2020 19:48:15 GMT -5
Oh that's a perfect segway. On the topic of Sammy and cool stories. A mom shared her experience on Twitter of Sammy going out of his way to film a video for her 12 year old daughter who was having severe mental health issues, and how much it helped. I've seen a few people now coming out with their stories of how good Sammy has been. Absolutely, people grow up and usually become mature good people. 32 yr old me today would beat the crap out of 20 yr old me. The true problem in society is that social media has given a voice to everyone. On top of that, we have become so advanced as a society, we are so comfortable that we have to create conflict where there really shouldn’t be any. Those people have joined with those in our society who are socially marginalized (the less attractive, the socially awkward, the less popular) and together with social media, they have pushed forward a toxic virtue signaling mindset that feeds off being able to have people fired or punished, to have maple syrup cancelled, and they chase that high onto the next thing. It’s why each issue seems to be more and more absurd to rational people because again, like an addict, they are chasing that feeling. They have to find that next issue that our society largely suppressed starting in the 60s. God I'm gonna accidentally derail this but I have to bring it up because you made a great point. The behaviour really is like an addict. I've been seeing more and more talks, papers, etc, talking about the Dopamine release when you get likes on instagram posts, etc. It's really fascinating, and subsequently terrifying to learn about. The potential addictive nature for this stuff is basically like freaking meth. |
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Post by snowjorden on Jun 27, 2020 2:08:05 GMT -5
Born in 85. 34 year old me would also beat up 22 year old me. I believe I said somewhere early in this that Sammy was young then... and I was told that was no excuse, lol -_-
Really.. the vast majority of 22 year olds are still kids emotionally and responsibly.
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jun 27, 2020 2:55:38 GMT -5
what bothers me about AEW suspending Sammy is the fact that they pimped out Mike Tyson for exposure right before all of this. Its such a bad look. The hypocrisy is terrible
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Post by K5 on Jun 27, 2020 10:26:08 GMT -5
what bothers me about AEW suspending Sammy is the fact that they pimped out Mike Tyson for exposure right before all of this. Its such a bad look. The hypocrisy is terrible Tyson has recognized many of his errors and has always remained adamant that the rape charge was not a rightful charge, but your point still is true. |
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KRAYZIE BONE
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Post by KRAYZIE BONE on Jun 27, 2020 11:07:15 GMT -5
what bothers me about AEW suspending Sammy is the fact that they pimped out Mike Tyson for exposure right before all of this. Its such a bad look. The hypocrisy is terrible Tyson has recognized many of his errors and has always remained adamant that the rape charge was not a rightful charge, but your point still is true. Beyond being a convicted rapist, they suspended Sammy for an off hand comment. Tyson has said faaaaaaar worse. Its not just the rape conviction. Who can forget when he said he wanted to eat Lennox Lewis' children, or this gem: |
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Post by K5 on Jun 27, 2020 11:20:58 GMT -5
Tyson has recognized many of his errors and has always remained adamant that the rape charge was not a rightful charge, but your point still is true. Beyond being a convicted rapist, they suspended Sammy for an off hand comment. Tyson has said faaaaaaar worse. Its not just the rape conviction. Who can forget when he said he wanted to eat Lennox Lewis' children, or this gem: tyson has shown a tremendous amount of growth. i already spoke about the rape conviction, and the video you posted is tyson responding to a journalist bringing up the rape conviction in a pre-fight conference. tyson snapped. the dude came from the streets, faced tremendous abuse himself, and has acknowledged that his past behaviors are wrong and seeked to correct them. he's friends with lennox lewis now. sammy hadn't apologized and it hadn't been brought to light. once again, i agree that there is a base level of hypocrisy there, but your absolute damnation of tyson imo isn't seeing the forest through the trees here. i mean, if we're gonna drag all the skeletons out, why stop at Tyson? better get rid of Jake the Snake for being a crack smoker that ignored his family for his own selfish highs for years and Arn Anderson for essentially attempted murder against Sid Vicious. |
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Post by snowjorden on Jun 27, 2020 11:42:55 GMT -5
i mean, if we're gonna drag all the skeletons out, why stop at Tyson? better get rid of Jake the Snake for being a crack smoker that ignored his family for his own selfish highs for years and Arn Anderson for essentially attempted murder against Sid Vicious. If #SpeakingOut existed in the 70s and 80s, Jerry Lawler would've been executed and Po Wrestling wouldn't have made it to Wrestlemania 1. Not condoning. Js. |
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walkingturtles
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Post by walkingturtles on Jun 27, 2020 12:13:41 GMT -5
what bothers me about AEW suspending Sammy is the fact that they pimped out Mike Tyson for exposure right before all of this. Its such a bad look. The hypocrisy is terrible Thats the problem when you go virtue signaling, the people you do it for(ie those screaming the loudest) move on after you do, and the people who actually participate in your product get turned off and point out the various hypocrisies. Get woke, go broke. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2020 13:24:08 GMT -5
Don't even have to go back to the 70s or 80s. Randy Orton would never have lasted starting in this generation.
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Post by bWo on Jun 27, 2020 19:04:09 GMT -5
I'm just happy I won't have to watch him on TV for however long he's gone for, 'cos I absolutely can't stand him. Haha. Why? I don't get the sense your displeasure is because of his comments, and is more his wrestling character. I could be wrong. If I'm not though, what is it? He's good in the ring and on the mic. He's got a smug and slappable "heel" face. Plays the role well. If it's not what he said, what is it you can't stand about him? I do however wonder if they'll ever call him, "Le Sex God" again? |
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Post by bWo on Jun 27, 2020 20:01:51 GMT -5
Oh that's a perfect segway. On the topic of Sammy and cool stories. A mom shared her experience on Twitter of Sammy going out of his way to film a video for her 12 year old daughter who was having severe mental health issues, and how much it helped. I've seen a few people now coming out with their stories of how good Sammy has been. Absolutely, people grow up and usually become mature good people. 32 yr old me today would beat the crap out of 20 yr old me. The true problem in society is that social media has given a voice to everyone. On top of that, we have become so advanced as a society, we are so comfortable that we have to create conflict where there really shouldn’t be any. Those people have joined with those in our society who are socially marginalized (the less attractive, the socially awkward, the less popular) and together with social media, they have pushed forward a toxic virtue signaling mindset that feeds off being able to have people fired or punished, to have maple syrup cancelled, and they chase that high onto the next thing. It’s why each issue seems to be more and more absurd to rational people because again, like an addict, they are chasing that feeling. They have to find that next issue that our society largely suppressed starting in the 60s. I'm 39. I think I'd be upset with some of the things I did when I was 22, but I'd still accept clear cut humour as such. Be an interesting scrap. I pretty much agree with everything else though. |
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